gti-6 brakes

1. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

   #1 4th September 2007, 18:00

   i know a few people have had problems with the Lucas brakes from the 306 gti-6 including myself and Yatesy, has anyone managed to get a set of Lucas brakes from the 306 gti-6 to fit their Saxo? I know they make a Bosch setup as well is this one advised over the lucas brakes!
2. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

   #2 5th September 2007, 09:59

   Mine are Lucas... What's the difference?
3. stevenet15 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2006 aylesbury buckinghamshire Posts: 4822 Astra Turbo, saxo vts, punto turbo

   #3 5th September 2007, 13:20

   s34mer the brakes you had were not gti6 they were 406 283mm ones which have a completly different offset angle caliper carrier to the gti6, all gti6 brakes would fit
4. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

   #4 6th September 2007, 14:54

   when fitting 306 gti6 brakes, what parts are needed?
   
   discs, pads and calipers.
   
   do you need the carriers or can you use the vts ones?
5. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

   #5 6th September 2007, 14:59

   You need the carriers that come with the calipers.
6. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

   #6 6th September 2007, 15:00

   ok cheers.
   
   are they attached to the calipers?
   
   just i've seen some on ebay, and it says discs, pads and calipers, but doesn't mention carriers.
   
   cheers
7. stevenet15 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2006 aylesbury buckinghamshire Posts: 4822 Astra Turbo, saxo vts, punto turbo

   #7 6th September 2007, 17:41

   yes they are attached to the caliper but can be detached. post the link and i can confirm the carriers are with them, more then likely they do have them tho
8. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

   #8 6th September 2007, 17:43

   i was told by Yates in my other thread he tried the the lucas calipers and had similar problems, do the Lucas calipers still comply with the 283mm discs?
9. stevenet15 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2006 aylesbury buckinghamshire Posts: 4822 Astra Turbo, saxo vts, punto turbo

   #9 6th September 2007, 17:56

   there defo 406 ones if there hitting like the pic in the other thread, i have seen people selling the 406 ones on ebay as gti6 ones as they dont realise they have a different offset as the calipers on the gti6 and 406 are exactly the same but its the caliper carriers that are slightly different with different offsets
10. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

    #10 7th September 2007, 09:39

    whats a rough price for some mintex or similar, pads and disks to fit the gti-6 brakes?
    
    and disk wise, should i get plain disks, or is it worth getting grooved? wont touch drilled as they are prone to cracking.
11. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #11 7th September 2007, 10:04

    I got Tarox G88 disks and Tarox fast road pads for my setup. Disks were around £170 and pads were around £50. That was from www.motorsportworld.co.uk
    
    You can get better pads, but the disks are top notch. I don't think that drilled disks are prone to cracking mate. Maybe if they are cheapo ones...
12. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

    #12 7th September 2007, 10:17

    ok cheers.
    
    are black diamond discs any good?
    
    also, i'm guessing the abs sensors fit straight on the gti-6 calipers?
    
    also, is a bigger brake servo needed or is the vts one fine?
13. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #13 7th September 2007, 10:32

    Black Dimaond are not worth purchasing IMO. Tarox are good!
    
    ABS wheel sensors don't sit on the calipers, they fix onto the hub area. You'll notice the notches around the end of the driveshafts. The sensor uses those notches to determine the deceleration of the wheel.
    
    Some folk replace the master cylinder to the GTI 6 one, but it's not a requirement. By doing this, it's meant to take some travel out of the brake pedal. I haven't done it, and I don't have much travel...
14. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

    #14 7th September 2007, 10:40

    ok cheers.
    
    well i'm going to check the abs sensor so i can find where it is.
    
    will probably go for tarox on mintex, both seem to get get reviews from people on here. will also use mintex m1144 pads (the ones that everyone has), and i have braided hoses too.
    
    so should be an ok set-up.
15. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #15 7th September 2007, 10:43

    Tarox for disks, Mintex for pads... Should be good!
16. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

    #16 7th September 2007, 11:05

    cheers.
    
    do you know if you can fit the vts front brakes on to the rear?
17. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #17 7th September 2007, 11:08

    No dood, their different. All you need for the rears are some decent pads.
18. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #18 7th September 2007, 11:53

    you will not notice any benefit for using grooved or drilled disks so just buy standard. Try using uprated pads in your standard suspension from the likes of Mintex or pagid and look at what affects your breaking such as your suspension choice and tyre choice before adding loads of weight and ruining your handling with heavy brakes.
19. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

    #19 7th September 2007, 12:16

    well i have a spax psx sus kit and have michelin pilots all round.
20. CampDavid Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Bedford Posts: 7457 Saxo VTS Peugeot 306 GTI-6 Astra SRI

    #20 7th September 2007, 12:32

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KamRacing you will not notice any benefit for using grooved or drilled disks so just buy standard. Try using uprated pads in your standard suspension from the likes of Mintex or pagid and look at what affects your breaking such as your suspension choice and tyre choice before adding loads of weight and ruining your handling with heavy brakes.

    Agree to a point, but a couple of things worth noting
    
    1. Standard 247mm brakes are shite, regardless of pad
    
    2. 266mm don't weigh any more
    
    3. 285mm GTI-6 brakes are heavy as fuck, and Lucus never made a GTI-6 caliper IIRC
    
    4. 4 pot calipers are lighter than even the standard calipers as they are ali, not pig iron
    
    5. Grooved and drilled disks are a good idea in a couple of situations, mainly because a lot of uprated pads need them. We ran 1144s on standard GTI-6 calipers and they squeek like a bitch!
    
    Agree on the weight though, unsprung weight is the enermy of good handling
21. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

    #21 7th September 2007, 12:44

    so in that respect, would 266mm brakes be better?!?!
22. CampDavid Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Bedford Posts: 7457 Saxo VTS Peugeot 306 GTI-6 Astra SRI

    #22 7th September 2007, 12:47

    Better in terms of less weight, worse in terms of ultimate braking power
23. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #23 7th September 2007, 14:02

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CampDavid Agree to a point, but a couple of things worth noting 1. Standard 247mm brakes are shite, regardless of pad 2. 266mm don't weigh any more 3. 285mm GTI-6 brakes are heavy as fuck, and Lucus never made a GTI-6 caliper IIRC 4. 4 pot calipers are lighter than even the standard calipers as they are ali, not pig iron 5. Grooved and drilled disks are a good idea in a couple of situations, mainly because a lot of uprated pads need them. We ran 1144s on standard GTI-6 calipers and they squeek like a bitch! Agree on the weight though, unsprung weight is the enermy of good handling

    1. Maybe they are but how effective your brakes are is down to the rest of the chassis. Suspension and tyres should be changed before brakes, and maybe whatever chassis mods you want to do such as cage, weight reduction. I say that as our rallye ran standard brakes and it outbraked most people. Thats because your braking distance is not really affected by changing your brakes until excess heat is applied..
    
    2. If they are the same weight then fit these as they will offer better brake performance as the heat is dissipated far faster.
    
    3. I agree - far too heavy
    
    4.I never said anything about race spec calipers But yes they are lighter though some come with huge disks and unless you get proper bells and floating disks the weight can be ofset somewhat for the worse..
    
    5.Drilled disks are archaic and pad materials have superseeded this design. Grooved disks really are not needed on a road car. They are designed to clean the pad as a race car will be breaking very heavily and pad wear is accelerated. I dont think its really that big an issue on a road car.
    As for the squealing, thats usually down to the harder compounds.
    
    Unsprung weight completely changed the handling of a car and you should look at fitting the smallest and lightest brakes you can get away with...
    
    Kev
24. CampDavid Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Bedford Posts: 7457 Saxo VTS Peugeot 306 GTI-6 Astra SRI

    #24 12th September 2007, 12:03

    I think we're kind of agreeing on the same points.
    
    Worth noting though is that most people on here will be fairly hard on the brakes during hard driving, therefor the bigger brakes are probably worth it. If you know what you're doing you generally rely on the brakse a fair bit less
25. Yates Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Pompey/Darlo Posts: 31546 MK1 - 1.1 Animal

    #25 12th September 2007, 12:59

    Ive never had any problems with my gti6 brakes never had lucas calipers either
26. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #26 12th September 2007, 13:49

    Finding the appropriate braking system is all about heat. What you want is the lightest setup which copes with your braking style. Do you overheat your current setup? If not then bigger brakes are no benefit to you. What you are noticing is the change in how that force is applied rather than greater braking power.
27. Yates Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Pompey/Darlo Posts: 31546 MK1 - 1.1 Animal

    #27 12th September 2007, 13:56

    altho the gti6 are heavy, i can not knock them in the slightest, i dont burn around driving and the brakes are shit hot, and also when on track when need harsh and heavy braking i suffer no brake fade or any other problems
    
    ive drove a few cars with 4 pots and ive always felt mine are better, i dont know why, maybe im more cautious with someone elses car but then it wasnt track driving
28. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

    #28 12th September 2007, 15:20

    with regards to the master cylinder, does it need changing if you go for the 266mm setup, or is it only really advised on 283/284 or bigger?
    
    cheers