Manifolds...Suggestions & Other engine advice please :)

7th September 2007, 10:18

Ive currently for a BTB 4-1 Manifold for the VTS engine that im rebuilding..

I gather that the 4-1 is more beneficial for slogging the cars guts off and doesnt really peak to high revs.

So.. im thinking of selling it on again and getting a 4-2-1 as im thinking getting a good mid range is far more important and beneficial for both day to day driving and all round performance.

Any thoughts on this? how goods is the 4-1 BTB and whats the best recommendation for a 4-2-1 manifold?

Had a quick search and am i right in thinking a raceland manifold is 4-2-1 but not the greatest in quality. Supersprint also 4-2-1 approx £250ish and much better?

Is there any other recommendations, price is not an issue, ill always go for the quality and stump up the cost.

Any info/recommendations appreciated

7th September 2007, 10:24

Ryan will defo disagree here but i think the GMC is probs the best you can get, but it all depends on what you want really

Supersprint probably have the best 4-2-1 Config tbh and the better quality as well

7th September 2007, 10:34

OK, take two well made manifolds. Let's say one is designed as a 4-1 and the other is designed as a 4-2-1. IMO, for the level of tuning we're talking about here, you wouldn't notice any difference between the two.

7th September 2007, 10:36

Disagree

They are both different and designed to work different

One lower down and the other higher up so you are going to notice a difference

7th September 2007, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

Disagree

They are both different and designed to work different

One lower down and the other higher up so you are going to notice a difference

However i know some people who have got 4-2-1 and it has made the rev more responsive high and low...!

7th September 2007, 10:40

Trust me, you won't. Not unless you are running really highly tuned engines.

7th September 2007, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Trust me, you won't. Not unless you are running really highly tuned engines.

^^^^ he's correct...there won't be a difference! not to an extent where you will notice it! they maybe a LITTLE difference.

Toad are you saying you won't notice any difference with a 4-2-1 manifold or are you comparing the 2? 4-2-1 AND 4-1?

7th September 2007, 10:49

I'm comparing the 2 different types. Not a stock Vs a performance. The point I wanted to get across in this thread, was to Willsy, and to say that it's not worth the effort of selling up and getting another one. The one he's got is good.

7th September 2007, 10:51

Ah ok....thats what i thought...

have a good day!

7th September 2007, 10:53

Moving to a set of 708 camshafts has only changed the power band in my car by a small margin, so some slightly different patterened exhaust manifold won't really make a difference that you can notice. There's no way you're going to drive the car and say to yourself "I can now feel all the power higher in the RPM range with this 4-1 compared to 4-2-1..."

Leeroy is spot on with regard to the technicalities behind the desing of each type, but I'm just trying to emphasise, it's not going to make a big enough difference for our "light" tuned applications.

7th September 2007, 10:56

I agree with Toad

Wilsy just stick with the GMC

7th September 2007, 11:00

Came to a quick conclusion there then. Thanks for your input chaps.

Im still not 100% sure how far ill take the engine yet.

708 Cams are an absolute cert.

Also weighing up whether or not to get a big valve head from QEP and change the pistons too.

TB's may come eventually but certainly not in the immediate future.

7th September 2007, 11:04

Quote:

Also weighing up whether or not to get a big valve head from QEP and change the pistons too.

TBH Wilsy not much point in wasting money of a big valve head etc unless your going the TB'd route or supercharged

Spend the money on good suspension and brakes

7th September 2007, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

TBH Wilsy not much point in wasting money of a big valve head etc unless your going the TB'd route or supercharged

Spend the money on good suspension and brakes

Have you seen my brakes? lol

Suspension will change eventually

current setup is:

Full Koni suspension springs and dampners
Powerflex bushes on the rear
Rear lowered about 50mm (needs doing again intended a 40mm drop)

Not alot i can change suspension wise yet, best to wait and see how the added weight of the S engine changes things first. Still got to fit the Front ARB aswel

7th September 2007, 11:15

Will look forward to 3 pics

7th September 2007, 11:16

Head wise i could do with a bit of advice aswel really, the engines done 98k.

Im wanting to replace a vast majority of it to 'new' spec.

Got all gaskets and seals etc etc, but if there anything i should get done on the head itself to get it all cleaned up and fresh on the inside?

Approx costs would be muchos helpful too

7th September 2007, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

TBH Wilsy not much point in wasting money of a big valve head etc unless your going the TB'd route or supercharged

Spend the money on good suspension and brakes

This is good advice. I've made many mistakes in the past, I'm still learning all the time.

Obviously the most cost effective way of tuning, is to sit down and work out exactly what you want from the car, and then do all the engine changes in the one sitting.

As said, the TBs will unlock the full potential of the big valve, so if you're stopping after 708s, it's not going to be a very cost effective purchase.

If you're using the car on the road, IMHO, I wouldn't even change the suspension from stock. Why put up with all the issues of running stiff springs and dampers on shyte surfaces. Great for a track, but on English roads? On shyte road surfaces, you can go round corners quicker with the stock suspension than you can with a hard dampers and springs...

7th September 2007, 11:27

Costs for what exactly Willsy?

7th September 2007, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Costs for what exactly Willsy?

Costs for anything that should/may be advisable to have done to the existing head to ensure that its cleaned up inside and will be as fresh as a daisy when running.

Ill be getting the followers changed aswel with the cams due to the high milage.

Big learning curve for me aswel, engine wise im far behind on the knowledge

Read a few searched threads which gives a bit of an insight

7th September 2007, 11:38

Would have tappets done as well on 98k engine

Everyplace with charge different tbh

Get all seals and gaskits replaced

7th September 2007, 11:44

I don't think you can really do anything with the head, unless you take it off, and then you'll incur costs straight away. You really need a friend in the trade (or from here) that can help you out, and save you loads of £££.

7th September 2007, 11:50

Well the engine is almost completely stripped down as it stands, head, bottom end and sump are all seperated. Internal components of these though i havnt touched.

Josh (jpsaxo) said he'll lend me a hand as much as he can as he's local to me. so thatll be a great help learning from him having done his to a top notch standard.

7th September 2007, 11:51

Yeah JP will be good to have around tbh

Seems a good lad

7th September 2007, 12:15

Keep the BTB, best choice with the cams etc

7th September 2007, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

Keep the BTB, best choice with the cams etc

Agree with Dave,

As already Said Matt mate, you need to sit down and choose your final budget and what spec you want to go with that,

Then take things from there, if you want another "chat" next tues i'm off work if your free.... Or sunday up untill 3

EDIT: Or get this west mids meet arranged and we can have a good chat then,

7th September 2007, 12:38

Adjustable shocks and the suspension is done basically willsy unless your looking at diff's new clutches to match coilovers which are serious money
Brakes are far above what a few people who are running a lot more than you use so they're sorted

I'd love to have the time and resources to strip and rebuild my lump over crimbo like you are and invest some money into new parts and tuning it up while im there tbh but i doubt its gonna happen...

My plans are similar to yours in terms of tuning and performance
Manifold
Induction re-build with a P+P
Full decat and new system
New seals, tappets
Cams and followers, valves and springs
Re-map and then look at TB's either BIC's or something like 708's after the above

im close to 92k but dont think il need a new lump before i finish the plans and if its running well maintained well then there shouldnt really be any need until later on at least?

7th September 2007, 14:19

if you want a 4-2-1 then by a supersprint. The quality of them is miles ahead of the raceland. Personally i'd buy a limited slip diff to make better use out of the power i have..

8th September 2007, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

if you want a 4-2-1 then by a supersprint. The quality of them is miles ahead of the raceland. Personally i'd buy a limited slip diff to make better use out of the power i have..

As said many times before, i believe the LSD one of the best things i got for my car.

8th September 2007, 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

Ryan will defo disagree here but i think the GMC is probs the best you can get, but it all depends on what you want really

Supersprint probably have the best 4-2-1 Config tbh and the better quality as well

i dont think the gmc is crap no, just the results from daveP made interesting reading from back to back RRs.

the primaray pipes on the btb are a good size and design.

just the whole 4-1 4-2-1 debate is to much lol, espec when pugsport 3 piece manifolds are 4-2-1 configuration (albeit theyre no good for anyone not running hige spec)