Got the Car mapped!

1. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

   #1 19th September 2007, 17:23

   Got the VTS mapped yesterday at Chipwizards, Wayne done a minter of a job fair play!
   
   Pulled 153 bhp
   
   Mods:
   
   Raceland RAM Air Filter
   Raceland 4-2-1 Manifold
   Pugsport 2" Exhaust
   Cat Cams 708s
   
   He also raised the limiter to 7800.
   
   Well happy with the results not bad for a 3 plug!
2. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

   #2 19th September 2007, 17:26

   good results i have never hit the limiter in my standard s but if pushing hard it goes past 7300 on the clock
   
   does it drive fine lumpy idle?
   
   going to start saving and cam and map my s soon
3. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

   #3 19th September 2007, 17:33

   standard revs to bout 7500 i think.
   
   No idles perfect not lumpy either.
   
   Yeah well worth it, its like driving a different car
4. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

   #4 19th September 2007, 17:41

   great results there tbh dude, il be going for the same but with a better manifold and induction and different zorst so maybe up to 5-8bhp variation. Need cams and remaps soon, only question is the type of Tb's to go for...
   
   How much for the re-map?
5. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

   #5 19th September 2007, 17:46

   re-post sorry
6. Jagztorious Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 KENT -ROYAL Tunny wells Posts: 1678 SitRon Sackso.

   #6 19th September 2007, 17:48

   how much does it cost to get a re-map done? would you need cam's to re-map? or can u just map the car?
7. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

   #7 19th September 2007, 17:50

   dont think you will get much more than that, most i think with those mods is 157bhp.
   
   TBs are only good with bottom end work i think.
   
   Dont think you can get a better zorst as the Pugsport is made for the engine.
   Airfilters are quality.
   
   Couple of ppl didnt think it would push more than 150 ponies so im happy
   
   wont really notice 3-4 brake anyway
8. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

   #8 19th September 2007, 17:51

   pointless gettting a map with just breather mods. you idealy need at least cams.
   
   He charges £450 + Vat, may sound a bit but i would 110% recommend Chipwizards!
9. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

   #9 19th September 2007, 17:51

   dont think would see much more power from different branded mods tbh
10. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #10 19th September 2007, 17:53

    al be getting mine mapped
    will have magnex cat-back (not sure wether to leave the de-cat on for the mapping sesh?)
    4-2-1 manifold
    standard airbox with panel filter and removal of resinator box so cold air feed goes straight to the airbox
    708's will probs be the cams i go for aswel
11. Jagztorious Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 KENT -ROYAL Tunny wells Posts: 1678 SitRon Sackso.

    #11 19th September 2007, 17:55

    Thats like 400quid for cams and 550 for re-map! lol.....nearly a grand!.....
    
    how long did it take him to map ur car?
12. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

    #12 19th September 2007, 17:59

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jagztorious Thats like 400quid for cams and 550 for re-map! lol.....nearly a grand!..... how long did it take him to map ur car?

    Cost me £250 for cams and £450 for the map so £700
    
    started the mapping bout 10ish, finished bout 2.
    
    and dont look at it as £700 for 17bhp(what i gained from cams and map) its how much better the car runs. You couldnt just chuck cams in and it will run fine.
    
    I'd pay that much again anyday
13. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #13 19th September 2007, 17:59

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jagztorious Thats like 400quid for cams and 550 for re-map! lol.....nearly a grand!.....

    thats cheap for gains lol
14. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #14 19th September 2007, 18:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by redbullet07 great results there tbh dude, il be going for the same but with a better manifold and induction and different zorst so maybe up to 5-8bhp variation. Need cams and remaps soon, only question is the type of Tb's to go for... How much for the re-map?

    and if your going bodies you want standolone
15. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #15 19th September 2007, 18:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Paul_Collins dont think you will get much more than that, most i think with those mods is 157bhp. TBs are only good with bottom end work i think. Dont think you can get a better zorst as the Pugsport is made for the engine. Airfilters are quality. Couple of ppl didnt think it would push more than 150 ponies so im happy wont really notice 3-4 brake anyway

    why are tbs no good without bottom end work then??
    
    never heard that one before lol
16. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #16 19th September 2007, 18:01

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by redbullet07 great results there tbh dude, il be going for the same but with a better manifold and induction and different zorst so maybe up to 5-8bhp variation. Need cams and remaps soon, only question is the type of Tb's to go for... How much for the re-map?

    KMS DTH TBs from qep.
17. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #17 19th September 2007, 18:02

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan why are tbs no good without bottom end work then?? never heard that one before lol

    was gonna say that aswell. bottom end is fine
18. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

    #18 19th September 2007, 18:02

    cost me 1150 for:
    
    Filter (new)
    mani (new)
    pugsport (new)
    cams (second hand only done 3k tho)
    map
    
    
    standard are 120 bhp now i have 153 bhp
    
    not bad at all £1150 for 33 bhp tbh
19. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #19 19th September 2007, 18:02

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bullit was gonna say that aswell. bottom end is fine

    I laughed and my mum asked what i was laughing at, my reply someone saying Tbs are rubbish without bottom end work, just got a riiight ok son reply.
20. Jagztorious Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 KENT -ROYAL Tunny wells Posts: 1678 SitRon Sackso.

    #20 19th September 2007, 18:04

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Paul_Collins Cost me £250 for cams and £450 for the map so £700 started the mapping bout 10ish, finished bout 2. and dont look at it as £700 for 17bhp(what i gained from cams and map) its how much better the car runs. You couldnt just chuck cams in and it will run fine. I'd pay that much again anyday

    you said that after the map work your car was kickin 157bhp, so ur car was originally 140 bhp before???......how did you manage this?
21. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

    #21 19th September 2007, 18:04

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan I laughed and my mum asked what i was laughing at, my reply someone saying Tbs are rubbish without bottom end work, just got a riiight ok son reply.

    lol nm then
22. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #22 19th September 2007, 18:06

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jagztorious you said that after the map work your car was kickin 157bhp, so ur car was originally 140 bhp before???......how did you manage this?

    looking at his spec sheet, manifold, exhaust and filter. but as ill say to everyone i take RR figures with a pinch of salt,.
23. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #23 19th September 2007, 18:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Paul_Collins lol nm then

    despite the fact i have a Tbd engine on the drive and have spoken about them many times she still seems confused bless her
24. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

    #24 19th September 2007, 18:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Paul_Collins dont think you will get much more than that, most i think with those mods is 157bhp.

    Didnt say i got 157 bhp most ive seen is 157bhp
    
    had 136bhp before cams and map
25. Jagztorious Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 KENT -ROYAL Tunny wells Posts: 1678 SitRon Sackso.

    #25 19th September 2007, 18:08

    manifold, exhaust and filter adding 20bhp?....no chance!
26. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #26 19th September 2007, 18:08

    anyway paul, does it feel quicker. tell us lol
27. Jagztorious Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 KENT -ROYAL Tunny wells Posts: 1678 SitRon Sackso.

    #27 19th September 2007, 18:08

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Paul_Collins Didnt say i got 157 bhp most ive seen is 157bhp had 136bhp before cams and map

    ohhh i see ! good stuff!
28. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #28 19th September 2007, 18:09

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jagztorious manifold, exhaust and filter adding 20bhp?....no chance!

    said 16, but then again depends what rr he went on, so pinch of salt
29. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

    #29 19th September 2007, 18:10

    feels much quicker! Power is so much smoother. just gotta get a 1.4 xsi box now as mine are too long.
    
    feels like a different car, nice for it to idle correctly tbh
30. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #30 19th September 2007, 18:10

    so does the car run nice and smooth and how does ti feel
31. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

    #31 19th September 2007, 18:11

    figures are figures, all depends on a lot off different factors even down to the condition of the engine for its age, wheels etc i think so taken with a salt iceberg
    
    How much for KMS DTH bodies and would it be best to make a direct air scoop in the bonnet with a panel filter built in or would that make the trumpets to long and TB's not working in the correct setup
    
    Bottom end i think he meant tweaking and tuning for a smooth idle with TB's etc? like JPSaxo was saying his westy idled at 2k to begin with and is now purring like a kitten
32. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #32 19th September 2007, 18:11

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jagztorious manifold, exhaust and filter adding 20bhp?....no chance!

    remeber std figures were an average. some come out of the workshop up on 120, some down.
    
    As i said i take RR figures with a pinch of salt, but i have seen alot of 16vs with rolling road runs hitting 135-140 on just breathing mods.
33. Jagztorious Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 KENT -ROYAL Tunny wells Posts: 1678 SitRon Sackso.

    #33 19th September 2007, 18:13

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan remeber std figures were an average. some come out of the workshop up on 120, some down. As i said i take RR figures with a pinch of salt, but i have seen alot of 16vs with rolling road runs hitting 135-140 on just breathing mods.

    i understand...! cheers buddy!
34. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #34 19th September 2007, 18:14

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by redbullet07 figures are figures, all depends on a lot off different factors even down to the condition of the engine for its age, wheels etc i think so taken with a salt iceberg How much for KMS DTH bodies and would it be best to make a direct air scoop in the bonnet with a panel filter built in or would that make the trumpets to long and TB's not working in the correct setup Bottom end i think he meant tweaking and tuning for a smooth idle with TB's etc? like JPSaxo was saying his westy idled at 2k to begin with and is now purring like a kitten

    
    erm you dont tweak the bottom end, you adjust the cam timing!
    
    bottom end is, crank, rods and pistons. The reason he went for forged pistons was to raise the compression and increase torque as well as give it a bit more srength. Tbs dont give you rough idle anyway! what gives you the idle is the cam and the timing of the cam, TBd engines usually have rough idle because they run mad cams (this is the point in tbs anyway tbh)
    
    ring qep and ask them for prices.
    
    Trumpets - The longer the trumpet generally the better midrange perofmrance, you dont want really really short trumpets imo.
    
    as for airboxes its all fun and games trying to get one but it wont change the induction length
35. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

    #35 19th September 2007, 18:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan remeber std figures were an average. some come out of the workshop up on 120, some down. As i said i take RR figures with a pinch of salt, but i have seen alot of 16vs with rolling road runs hitting 135-140 on just breathing mods.

    i think theres an S2 rallye with a 16v engine in it on the 106 rallye register hitting 145bhp with mani, filter and zorst.
    
    Dont quote me tho.
36. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #36 19th September 2007, 18:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by redbullet07 figures are figures, all depends on a lot off different factors even down to the condition of the engine for its age, wheels etc i think so taken with a salt iceberg How much for KMS DTH bodies and would it be best to make a direct air scoop in the bonnet with a panel filter built in or would that make the trumpets to long and TB's not working in the correct setup Bottom end i think he meant tweaking and tuning for a smooth idle with TB's etc? like JPSaxo was saying his westy idled at 2k to begin with and is now purring like a kitten

    what are you on about now lol
37. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #37 19th September 2007, 18:17

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bullit what are you on about now lol

    at least i was online to explain lol
38. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

    #38 19th September 2007, 18:17

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bullit what are you on about now lol

    already answered above huni lol
39. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

    #39 19th September 2007, 18:18

    http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2...ad.php?t=35497
    
    theres that rallye
    
    143 bhp
40. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #40 19th September 2007, 18:19

    ive seen a few tbh, 16v plus breathing mods, on all the forums im on.
    
    reminds me need to se how daveP is coming along with his rebuild
41. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

    #41 19th September 2007, 18:19

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan at least i was online to explain lol

    cheers dude, just wondered about the TB induction methods as some are fed front feeds in the slam panel etc and iv only ever seen one with a bonnet scoop and direct airbox, not as much sound but the performance probably made that up so was curious of the difference between them
    
    Bullit
42. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #42 19th September 2007, 18:21

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by redbullet07 cheers dude, just wondered about the TB induction methods as some are fed front feeds in the slam panel etc and iv only ever seen one with a bonnet scoop and direct airbox, not as much sound but the performance probably made that up so was curious of the difference between them Bullit

    mine is the same as joshs, the point of the airbox designed by gmc was to run longer induction length (trumptes are long and curved 180degrees) without cutting the bulkhead, and also making filtration easy.
    
    most are fed with direct feeds because on alot of engines the inlet valve is at the front of the engine bay not the rear like the saxo.
    
    Airbox isnt changing the length of the trumpet though
43. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #43 19th September 2007, 18:27

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by redbullet07 Bullit

    im not the one spouting rubbish
44. craig180p Yorkshire Joined: Dec 2005 West Yorkshire Posts: 31079 1989 Golf GTi Clipper

    #44 19th September 2007, 18:39

    Good results there mate.
    
    I had 152 bhp with similar mods. 708s remap, green enclosed, magnex with cat and some alleged head work. It's amazing how different it felt with the map compared to standard. Not just in terms of power but delivery and how smooth the engine felt
45. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #45 19th September 2007, 18:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by saxo180 Good results there mate. I had 152 bhp with similar mods. 708s remap, green enclosed, magnex with cat and some alleged head work. It's amazing how different it felt with the map compared to standard. Not just in terms of power but delivery and how smooth the engine felt

    when i get mine done think i should get it mapped with the cat in place or out? as may not have it out forever or you rekon it wont make much difference
46. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #46 19th September 2007, 18:54

    having cat in/out wont make much difference imo.
47. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #47 19th September 2007, 18:54

    Cool. Looks like Wayne has got things down to a tee. Mine made 153 bhp too. So they're all there or there abouts.
    
    I can't say I was overly in awe with the car after, but it was quicker... I decided to strip it all out and fit a big valve head in and also an S1 box, and jesus, what an unbelieveable difference!
48. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #48 19th September 2007, 18:56

    Oh yeah, it idles like absolute shit though.
49. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #49 19th September 2007, 18:59

    im sure williams saw 153. mmmmmmm lol
50. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #50 19th September 2007, 19:02

    He did tell me he used the same map for all the VTSs / GTIs... lol. Obviously he tweaks it a bit after like, but... HMMMMMM!
51. Paul_Collins Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 Bridgend, S. Wales Posts: 1092 MkII White VTS

    #51 19th September 2007, 19:18

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Toad He did tell me he used the same map for all the VTSs / GTIs... lol. Obviously he tweaks it a bit after like, but... HMMMMMM!

    he uses the same map from cars that have similair mods. it pulled 150 before tweeks.
    
    mine idles fine. as i said before, you cant just look at power output, its how the car drives now.
52. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #52 19th September 2007, 19:25

    so basically he parks you car on the rollers, loads a basemap and tweeks it for 5 minutes. £500, thanyyou very much lol
53. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #53 19th September 2007, 19:41

    Great result mate!
54. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #54 20th September 2007, 08:53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bullit so basically he parks you car on the rollers, loads a basemap and tweeks it for 5 minutes. £500, thanyyou very much lol

    In a nutshell, yeah. LOL. Great business if you ask me.
    
    If he makes enough cups of tea, it makes the mapping time seem longer, hence, better value for money.
    
    Having a lumpy idle doesn't affect driveability. Wayne does a great job, and he doesn't adjust the exhaust cam timing so much so that it would generate a lumpy idle. He could give you more power througout the rev range by doing so, however, he tries to find that happy medium if you like, as he's mapping for a road car, not a race car.