Engine Conversions - Best Engines?

1. mikemacmillan Newbie Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 26 Saxo VTR

   #1 21st September 2007, 21:48

   Im seriously thinking of having a good engine conversion for my VTR
   
   Although, im looking to have something different from the Saxo VTS Engine.
   
   What other engines are a very good choice? for fitting, weight, price etc...?
   
   Ideally im looking for something that fits under the bonnet (maybe a bit of fabrication required) is a 2.0 and could be turboed without too much hassle.
   
   Have considered cosworth (see a previous thread), but that is too much work and money it seems.
   
   So any ideas for the best / most recomended engine?
   
   Any help is much appreciated
2. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

   #2 21st September 2007, 22:04

   Mi16 TB/Turbo lump, my mate has one in a 205 and it eats most cars for brekkies... yum yum
3. Tobs Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 London Posts: 3416

   #3 21st September 2007, 23:11

   just put a vts engine in and turbo it or s/c
   
   so much easyer as its straight fit (sort of)
4. sax87 Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2007 Leeds Posts: 169 Saxo 2002 VTR

   #4 21st September 2007, 23:19

   super charging is the way forward.. no turbo lag and fits in really easy (bolt on) super charge your VTR engine and get around 160BHP at the wheels.. don't let the figures be deceiving it will beat a 225 Audi TT. Start From 4k with fitting and maybe some hidden cost but mint!.
5. jaybiss Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Jul 2004 Solihull Posts: 18231 Two Tone Sax

   #5 21st September 2007, 23:50

   4k? where from...
6. mikemacmillan Newbie Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 26 Saxo VTR

   #6 22nd September 2007, 11:55

   This might sound a bit stupid as i dont know much about turbos/surperchargers, so dont laugh if im talking crap, but is it possible to fit both the supercharger and turbo? If not why?
7. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #7 22nd September 2007, 11:59

   no point, to much money to do
8. sax87 Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2007 Leeds Posts: 169 Saxo 2002 VTR

   #8 22nd September 2007, 12:04

   No its not good running two.. it might not even be possible with a small engine. You wont need it the S/C will be plenty fast enough if not VTS engine with a S/C round 220BHP
9. sax87 Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2007 Leeds Posts: 169 Saxo 2002 VTR

   #9 22nd September 2007, 12:14

   well a stage two turbo from cituning is £950 and like 3k to fit with rest of the gear so i just went off that price for the super charger.. a company called gmcmotorsports.co.uk do it - see the latest red line it has a VTR S/C in it.
10. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #10 22nd September 2007, 12:16

    cast shituning from your mind
11. sax87 Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2007 Leeds Posts: 169 Saxo 2002 VTR

    #11 22nd September 2007, 12:50

    i know but thats were i got the prices from.. GMC are amazing
12. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #12 22nd September 2007, 13:00

    superchargers generally are slightly more to install than a turbo, due to pulleys and belts etc..
13. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #13 22nd September 2007, 13:42

    if you are choosing a good engine for a conversion then you need to work out what you want to achieve first otherwise there is an endless list of quality engines.
    
    For example i wanted a light, longitudinal, N/a and compact engine of which the F20c stood narrowly at the top of the pile. the 20b rotary n/a was also there (too noisy) as was the cossy (too heavy) and the ford Duratec 2.0 (needed custom belhousing to make RWD)
    
    Perhaps the sensible choice is some form of forced induction to the current engine but it doesn't excite me
14. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #14 22nd September 2007, 14:04

    if you can get hold of a t-16 engine do it but there very rare
15. jaybiss Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Jul 2004 Solihull Posts: 18231 Two Tone Sax

    #15 22nd September 2007, 14:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sax87 well a stage two turbo from cituning is £950 and like 3k to fit with rest of the gear so i just went off that price for the super charger.. a company called gmcmotorsports.co.uk do it - see the latest red line it has a VTR S/C in it.

    so your looking at 6.5k then an extra 1500 for suspension, brakes and clutch
16. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #16 22nd September 2007, 14:14

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr if you can get hold of a t-16 engine do it but there very rare

    more chance of a lottery win to be honest
17. slammed106 Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 291

    #17 22nd September 2007, 21:50

    don`t dick about with a poxy 1.6 no matter what you do to it they aint man enough for a "proper" weapon
    
    if you wanna keep french i`ve seen gti6 lumps supercharged hitting 350+
    
    if you don`t care what you fit...
    
    VW 20v turbo 300+ with standard internals...
    FORD 2L or 2.3L duratec.. 250+ in NA form
    FORD 2L zetec turbo`d 500+ (mates currently planning 1 in his KA)
    
    why saxo and 106 peeps keep harping on about bleeding 1.6`s is beyond me..
    
    do you see wild fiesta`s with 1.6`s??? NO
    
    do you see wild corsa`s/nova`s with 1.6`s?? NO
    
    do you see wild lupo`s with 1.6`s?? NO
    
    screw the TU! unless you have racing reg`s and rules to obey 1600cc`s is not enough...
    
    
    
    NB: tonights rant was brought to you by JACOBS CREEK - REISLING a dry white number with citrus aftertones....
18. saxodaffy Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2005 blackpool United Kingdom (England) Posts: 457

    #18 23rd September 2007, 12:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by slammed106 don`t dick about with a poxy 1.6 no matter what you do to it they aint man enough for a "proper" weapon if you wanna keep french i`ve seen gti6 lumps supercharged hitting 350+ if you don`t care what you fit... VW 20v turbo 300+ with standard internals... FORD 2L or 2.3L duratec.. 250+ in NA form FORD 2L zetec turbo`d 500+ (mates currently planning 1 in his KA) why saxo and 106 peeps keep harping on about bleeding 1.6`s is beyond me.. do you see wild fiesta`s with 1.6`s??? NO do you see wild corsa`s/nova`s with 1.6`s?? NO do you see wild lupo`s with 1.6`s?? NO screw the TU! unless you have racing reg`s and rules to obey 1600cc`s is not enough... NB: tonights rant was brought to you by JACOBS CREEK - REISLING a dry white number with citrus aftertones....

    
    have you ever tuned a 1.6 TU engine if not then you cant say that there is no point i am hoping to get about 300-350 out of mine and it should be quicker than a stage 4 cossie (2 litre) scooby (2litre) novas with valvers is (2 litre ford 2.1 zvh convertions evo4-9 (2 liter)
    
    so there is no way that you can say that
19. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #19 23rd September 2007, 13:00

    What exactly are you gona do to hit that sorta power out of the 1.6?
20. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

    #20 23rd September 2007, 13:13

    George from greece on here is the only guy on here to achieve those sorts of figures and i wouldnt like to estimate how much hes spent on it tbh dude
    
    350 from where??
21. saxodaffy Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2005 blackpool United Kingdom (England) Posts: 457

    #21 23rd September 2007, 13:13

    spec so far still a bit more to put on list though
    
    stage 3 gas flowed head
    skimmed head
    competion head gasket
    uprated head bolts
    omega 8.2.1 low com pistons over sized to 78.8
    boared and horned barrels
    forged con rods
    gt2871rs turbo (400bhp)
    3 bar map sensor
    flow matched 680 cc injectors
    tubular manifold
    turbosmart ultra gate external waste gate 38mm
    2" screemer pipe
    Bosch 7 057 wideband oxygen sensor
    custom fly wheel (due to new clutch)
    ap twin plate 4 paddle clutch
    vernier pulleys
    sports cam belt
    quaife differential
    b m quick shift
    stainless inlet manifold
    70mm throttle body
    new water pump
    new oil pump
    full samco hoses
    stainless turbo down pipe
    kent pt51 cams
    oil cooler
    apexi avcr
    greddy turbo timer
    stand alone ecu (vems3.3)
    front mount intercooler with stainless pipe work
    uprated fuel pump 277l/p (grp n)
    group n engine mounts
    braided turbo oil feed
    chrome rocker cover
    10 lb nitrous bottle
    running 50 shot jets
22. saxodaffy Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2005 blackpool United Kingdom (England) Posts: 457

    #22 23rd September 2007, 13:15

    well mine gets mapped on friday so will put the exact figure up not to bothered if its only just over 300 thats more than enough to have in something that weighs 850 kg
23. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #23 23rd September 2007, 13:15

    Fair play..
    
    thats a spec list
24. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

    #24 23rd September 2007, 13:27

    spec so far or planned?
    
    Fair bit spent there, still got a mrs
25. saxodaffy Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2005 blackpool United Kingdom (England) Posts: 457

    #25 23rd September 2007, 13:52

    spec so far get my car bac from mapping next tuesday. yea still got a mrs just lol
    
    so hopfully a little bit of proof that you dont need big 2l engines to get good figures and times
26. Ste Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Yorkshire Posts: 5415 Saxo

    #26 23rd September 2007, 14:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by saxodaffy well mine gets mapped on friday so will put the exact figure up not to bothered if its only just over 300 thats more than enough to have in something that weighs 850 kg

    And with NOS?
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by saxodaffy so hopfully a little bit of proof that you dont need big 2l engines to get good figures and times

    I still bum 2.0 lumps
27. slammed106 Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 291

    #27 26th September 2007, 22:18

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by saxodaffy spec so far still a bit more to put on list though stage 3 gas flowed head skimmed head competion head gasket uprated head bolts omega 8.2.1 low com pistons over sized to 78.8 boared and horned barrels forged con rods gt2871rs turbo (400bhp) 3 bar map sensor flow matched 680 cc injectors tubular manifold turbosmart ultra gate external waste gate 38mm 2" screemer pipe Bosch 7 057 wideband oxygen sensor custom fly wheel (due to new clutch) ap twin plate 4 paddle clutch vernier pulleys sports cam belt quaife differential b m quick shift stainless inlet manifold 70mm throttle body new water pump new oil pump full samco hoses stainless turbo down pipe kent pt51 cams oil cooler apexi avcr greddy turbo timer stand alone ecu (vems3.3) front mount intercooler with stainless pipe work uprated fuel pump 277l/p (grp n) group n engine mounts braided turbo oil feed chrome rocker cover 10 lb nitrous bottle running 50 shot jets

    
    
    hmmm all through std driveshafts and gearbox... good luck!!!
    
    how much extra does the chrome rocker cover add?????
    
    now just think of the power you could have had if all of that was strapped to an engine with proper sized lungs.........
    
    have i tuned a TU?? yes thank you.... do i think there worth throwing that sort of money at?? no thank you...
28. makaveli144 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Burton Posts: 3661 Alfa Romeo GT

    #28 26th September 2007, 22:33

    Quote:

    if you wanna keep french i`ve seen gti6 lumps supercharged hitting 350+

    Power to weight a saxo is definately better than the 306. A gti-6s standard weight is 1215 kg. a saxo is 935 kg.
    
    If the saxo was running at 300bhp@wheels it would have 321bhp per ton at standard weight.
    If the 306 was running at 350bhp@wheels it would have 288bhp per ton at standard weight.
29. slammed106 Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 291

    #29 26th September 2007, 22:40

    who said anything about that engine not being put into a 106????
30. slammed106 Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 291

    #30 26th September 2007, 22:48

    theres no replacement for displacement!!!
    
    no matter what mods you do to an engine do the same to a bigger cc and you`ll get better results.....
    
    the only reason its not common in saxo`s and 106`s is the fact its a absolute ballache to fit bigger engines to begin with...
31. makaveli144 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Burton Posts: 3661 Alfa Romeo GT

    #31 26th September 2007, 22:54

    To end this debate. Put a 27 litre rolls royce meteor engine into your vtr. Yo may have to sit on the roof or something though. see below:
    
    http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=v-aC5B...elated&search=
32. slammed106 Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 291

    #32 26th September 2007, 22:58

    haha charlie broomfields a legend.....
    
    it sounded the nuts at goodwood!!!
    
    
    as for "debate" the tile said engine conversion BEST engine... and in my opinion that aint a 1600.... easiest probably... but not the best
33. makaveli144 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Burton Posts: 3661 Alfa Romeo GT

    #33 26th September 2007, 23:09

    Tbh, the thread want a very well though out one. The guy is new though. The best conversion for a saxo imo is the VTS maybe stretching to the 2.0 litre xsara/306 lumps. But imo the amount of money and work required to make one fit and work means it isnt the best. Power per pound and all that.
    
    Also the term the 'best' is very broad so no real answer can be given. Most suitable would probably be better with your budget and what you want from the engine stated.
    
    Simplest and cheapest conversion is the VTS.
34. slammed106 Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 291

    #34 26th September 2007, 23:12

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by makaveli144 Simplest and cheapest conversion is the VTS.

    
    abso-fucking-lutely........
35. speed_monkey L-plater Joined: Jun 2007 Northamptonshire Posts: 48 2008 Seat Leon 2.0 TDi

    #35 27th September 2007, 15:24

    Try here matey not heard of anyone using them so if any one has any feedback as I am seriously looking at these guys and the R1 RWD conversion, there is a Saxo on Youtube who has the Civic Type R engine in the boot running 240Bhp on the rear wheels!!!
    www.zcars.org.uk
36. pdd144c L-plater Joined: Sep 2007 Basingstoke Posts: 45 Saxo VTS, 205 TT, 306 Rallye race car

    #36 27th September 2007, 15:33

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr if you can get hold of a t-16 engine do it but there very rare

    I can get hold of them if needed...