Rear Dampers...

26th September 2007, 21:48

Right didnt know before but my billie group n set up, the rear is the sport dampers, not the group n

my question is, if i was to change mine for the group n, would i notice a difference?

question for kam - how much would they be from you?

cheers

26th September 2007, 22:02

DONT change for the grp N rears. Youll tyre patter your way into a hedge. The sports are already slightly overdamped, IMO, for std 19mm bars, more so if the car is half stripped.

Youd notice a difference, but I wouldnt do it unless I was on track ALL the time or it was a tarmac car.

Just my half a crowns worth.

26th September 2007, 22:04

just seen that on ssc.

its not stripped, handling at moment i love just wondered thats all, stil wanting to get an arb from gti, torsion bar standard

cheers bastard

26th September 2007, 22:06

24mm arb will make a big enough difference. With suspension, I like to change one thing at a time to feel the change that brings about, then try something else.

26th September 2007, 22:17

aye, i had planned on that, but i went from being 60mm down on shitty springs and shocks to raised up so its bout 25mm down, gmc billie set up, powerflex bushes, arb and engine mount, upper and lower strut brace and custom springs in one afternoon lol

stil not got rear bushes on and need an arb sorting

but i think box will be done before they are

26th September 2007, 22:21

if you go for firmer rear dampers you'll set yourself up for a nice bit of oversteer when give the steering wheel a quick rotation (i.e. if you need to do an evasive manoeuvre - on my project its referred to as 'stepsteer'). if the back end is already feeling slightly loose, DO NOT GO FIRMER.

26th September 2007, 22:28

i got back end out other day when i took tupps for a spin on my private track, you know the one sayer

not gona now after reading what bastard said

26th September 2007, 22:34

naaaaa dont then.

unless you want to enter drift championships.

26th September 2007, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

naaaaa dont then.

unless you want to enter drift championships.

not yet

26th September 2007, 22:52

GRP N ones i presume wil be harder

26th September 2007, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

GRP N ones i presume wil be harder

firmer ya

increase the firmness on the front compared to the rear.... vehicle dynamics tend towards understeer
increase the firmness of the rear compared to the front.... cehicle dynamics tend towards oversteer

in a very basic sense. there's other shit to worry about as well.

26th September 2007, 22:54

more chance of back end stepping out i would think with it being firm

Nowt wrong with the ones you have

26th September 2007, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

more chance of back end stepping out i would think with it being firm

Nowt wrong with the ones you have

you have never experienced them haha

26th September 2007, 22:58

Tupps explain your driving to me the other night nearly lost it i heard

26th September 2007, 22:59

no where near lost it and you know that

26th September 2007, 23:00

How do i know that

This was the information that was put forward to me

Remember aint been it in so how would i know

26th September 2007, 23:04

ive never nearly lost it ever. and sayin shit like that wont get you in the car either

26th September 2007, 23:06

Dont want to get in with a inexperience driver tbh

Take a joke man

26th September 2007, 23:12

never seen youuuuuu on track

26th September 2007, 23:15

You will ....You had better get just to reading my rear number plate

26th September 2007, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

You will ....You had better get just to reading my rear number plate

so he doesnt struggle to read it backwards in his rear view mirror?

26th September 2007, 23:40

PWND tbh

27th September 2007, 00:06

at its most basic level the damper is there to control the motion of the spring. Stiffer dampers for stiffer springs.

A mistake many people make is increasing the damping with teh misguided notion that they are stiffening the suspension (spring rate) which is not the case.

Too hard and the car becomes skittish, too soft and the car bounces around..

on the rear of the car the spring is the torsion bar and with the standard item the group N rears are arguably bordering on too stiff.

27th September 2007, 00:09

Leave em yates..

27th September 2007, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

at its most basic level the damper is there to control the motion of the spring. Stiffer dampers for stiffer springs.

A mistake many people make is increasing the damping with teh misguided notion that they are stiffening the suspension (spring rate) which is not the case.

Too hard and the car becomes skittish, too soft and the car bounces around..

on the rear of the car the spring is the torsion bar and with the standard item the group N rears are arguably bordering on too stiff.

appriciate your input

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

Leave em yates..

you can fuck off

27th September 2007, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

you can fuck off

Still bitter cos i didnt buy your interior..

27th September 2007, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

Still bitter cos i didnt buy your interior..

lol

james what type are your rear shocks?

27th September 2007, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

lol

james what type are your rear shocks?

I have the Group N's on the front and the B8 sprintlines on the back..same as Yates i think..

27th September 2007, 00:28

yup... nice one man

27th September 2007, 00:37

same, but mine are put to better use

im not bitter, your just bitter i have a better car

aMeS_bRiStOl says:
it will be a nice example tho in a few years
Rockin Rio... says:
haha
JaMeS_bRiStOl says:
will hold its value

james loves my car

27th September 2007, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

yup... nice one man

:d

I wouldnt want anything stiffer tbh, it kicks out enough as it is!!

27th September 2007, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

same, but mine are put to better use

im not bitter, your just bitter i have a better car

aMeS_bRiStOl says:
it will be a nice example tho in a few years
Rockin Rio... says:
haha
JaMeS_bRiStOl says:
will hold its value

james loves my car

LOL

Put to better use..How many trackdays have you done with them?

How often do you drive your car..Never..

I do love your car..

27th September 2007, 00:41

ive done 2 track days, only 2 ive been able to do

doesnt matter how often its driven!

27th September 2007, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

ive done 2 track days, only 2 ive been able to do

doesnt matter how often its driven!

Fair enough..

I've done 3..Would like to know how yours are put to better use..

Who won the sax-p track award?..

27th September 2007, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

Fair enough..

I've done 3..Would like to know how yours are put to better use..

Who won the sax-p track award?..

who should of won it?

hell next time il drive next to simo that way il win it

27th September 2007, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

who should of won it?

hell next time il drive next to simo that way il win it

Ok..:d

27th September 2007, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

Who won the sax-p track award?..

doesnt necessarily mean your good

27th September 2007, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaybiss

doesnt necessarily mean your good

Doesn't mean i'm shite either..

The comment from Simo as he gave the award to me was, that was some very good driving..

27th September 2007, 00:55

If only there was an award for "the most burgers eaten at traxs". I would have won that hands down. James knows I would have as well

27th September 2007, 00:56

depends on the criteiria

also you need to add raise your car on the things to do...

27th September 2007, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny_VSX

If only there was an award for "the most burgers eaten at traxs". I would have won that hands down. James knows I would have as well

LOL

Damn straight!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaybiss

depends on the criteiria

also you need to add raise your car on the things to do...

Raise it!?!?!!?!?!!?!?!!?!?! I'm shocked tbh..

Its too high as it is ont he front!! Just right on the back..handles like a dream, no diff than when it was like Yates's ride height when the billies were first installed..Just looks better lower imo..

27th September 2007, 01:00

your lying

27th September 2007, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

your lying

LOL

Take a loo kat the saxmax cars dude..Why are they soo low..

27th September 2007, 01:04

your living in a dream

im going to tell ryan everything...

27th September 2007, 01:05

got any pics of your car from behind james?

27th September 2007, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

your living in a dream

im going to tell ryan everything...

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaybiss

got any pics of your car from behind james?

Yeah, 2 secs..

27th September 2007, 01:08

There we go..

27th September 2007, 01:09

too low

does the back not like to step out?

27th September 2007, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaybiss

too low

does the back not like to step out?

lol

Not really, you need to provoke it to step out, like lift off going into a corner or something, then look out..

27th September 2007, 01:17

It will oversteer more than a normal Saxo, but i like that..Prefer that to understeer anyday!!

Also it suits my enthusiastic style..:d

27th September 2007, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

who should of won it?

that would be me... for taking mine on the track and having to endure ridicule from the public and fellow saxo owners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

The comment from Simo as he gave the award to me was, that was some very good driving..

James. You scurried off before the award could be given. didnt even say hello to any e-celebs. shame on you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

your lying

You're

27th September 2007, 07:46

Quote:

who should of won it?

TBHI think Yates should have won it

Only won who seem to do thinks properly and not just chuck it into a corner hoping it will pull itself lol

27th September 2007, 09:08

stiffer suspension on the front and leaving the torsion bars the o/e size would normally cause a car to understeer more rather than increasing oversteer

27th September 2007, 09:30

ive got a 24mm rear arb from a gti coming yates

27th September 2007, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

stiffer suspension on the front and leaving the torsion bars the o/e size would normally cause a car to understeer more rather than increasing oversteer

The last thing mine does is understeer..

Think its due to having no weight in the back..

27th September 2007, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

that would be me... for taking mine on the track and having to endure ridicule from the public and fellow saxo owners.

James. You scurried off before the award could be given. didnt even say hello to any e-celebs. shame on you

You're

I was looking around the show, came back quite late and had the award then...

Also i spoke to Cloud, probs the most famous of E celebs, i still haven't washed the hand of mine that he shook..

27th September 2007, 13:01

hahha cloud famous i think not...

hes a warrior...

your a cunt sayer

sam i was ment to be gettin rushys but he stil hasnt got the new one so its off. il get one when im back

il stil have a better gear box than you

27th September 2007, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

your a cunt sayer

You're

27th September 2007, 13:35

Haha! Love all this friendly banter.

Anyway, the shocks I have on the rear of mine are the GMC supplied AX Group N billies. Are we saying that these are too hard for a stripped saxo?

I have had no problems with mine in all the time I've had them. Fair, the rear does seem a lot lighter (and slightly more skitty) than it did before I stripped it's but never caught me out when hammering it round the twisties. They do seen quite hard on uneven roads though.

Are the B8s meant to be a better all rounder?

27th September 2007, 13:36

ax/saxo ones craig, ive got same ones im guessin

your not bothering me sayer

27th September 2007, 13:37

are they Group N or B8s then?

27th September 2007, 13:40

think they are b8s mate, not a full group n kit, the group n rears and cunkier than the b8s, i was lookin on ssc last nite, didnt know this when i bought them never seen it on gmc, altho i cant complain i love the way it handles

28th September 2007, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo180

Haha! Love all this friendly banter.

Anyway, the shocks I have on the rear of mine are the GMC supplied AX Group N billies. Are we saying that these are too hard for a stripped saxo?

I have had no problems with mine in all the time I've had them. Fair, the rear does seem a lot lighter (and slightly more skitty) than it did before I stripped it's but never caught me out when hammering it round the twisties. They do seen quite hard on uneven roads though.

Are the B8s meant to be a better all rounder?

There is a lot of confusion over the parts.

If you buy the sprintline kit from Bilstein for the Peugeot 106 you get shortened uprated B8 struts on the front and b8 uprated struts on the back

The sprintline kit for the Saxo consists of shortened Group N struts on the front and B8 struts on the rear. <--- people say this is what GMC supply

But you can also get group N shocks for the rear (they are labled AX Group N) but these aren't usually sold as part of a kit

28th September 2007, 12:44

So, a set purchased from GMC as AX front and rear Group N jobbies are actually Group N???

28th September 2007, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo180

So, a set purchased from GMC as AX front and rear Group N jobbies are actually Group N???

they have changed the wording on the site now, altho doesnt seem to make sense

im guessing i just have the b8 rears and not group n, ive got the ax/saxo group n fronts

28th September 2007, 12:52

Still got me confused as when I had them fitted they were about £400-£420 plus fitting, which for the price, I was under the assumption I was getting afull Group N set up

28th September 2007, 13:02

Mine was £400..

I got Group N fronts and B8 rears..

28th September 2007, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo180

Still got me confused as when I had them fitted they were about £400-£420 plus fitting, which for the price, I was under the assumption I was getting afull Group N set up

having not seen what GMC dispatch I can't say what you have. Do you know the part numbers? Could be on the receipt or something.

Failing that best to ask them

28th September 2007, 13:12

I'm not that bothered, just curious!

28th September 2007, 13:35

they is a noticeable difference in size between the two b8 and group n.... i'll try and dig up a picture... should be fairly easy to tell

28th September 2007, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

they is a noticeable difference in size between the two b8 and group n.... i'll try and dig up a picture... should be fairly easy to tell

Mine are significantly stumpier than the standard shocks

28th September 2007, 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo180

Mine are significantly stumpier than the standard shocks

group n then?

28th September 2007, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

group n then?

Thought so?!

28th September 2007, 14:14

*handy post to offset the amount of spam i bring*

28th September 2007, 14:20

group N is the massive fucker on the left.

28th September 2007, 14:53

Why couldn't that have gone in one post?

I reckon I have the smaller of the 2 looking at that

28th September 2007, 15:48

Mine are defo just the B8's..Not Group N's..Well not Group N's on the back anyway..:d

28th September 2007, 18:06

Ive recently bought the GMC group n kit and the rears are deffinetly b8's not group n's

1st November 2007, 16:48

Just to bring this back up - it was me that posted that pic on SSC and changed from sports to Grp N on the back (on my race car, 106 GTI). Felt unstable under braking with the sports but is much firmer with the group N and the car understeers less - this is with GMC 40mm 160lb springs and 19mm torsion bars. I will prob be changing to stiffer front springs and rear TB for next year but the car is great to drive as it is.

Cheers

Nick

1st November 2007, 17:34

i might get blistein rear dampers in the future sometime.

5th November 2007, 15:08

Same as Nick C, I have GMC 40mm springs but GrpNs all round (kamracing

). Standard rear ARB and torsion bars for now. And it handles great even on the road. Nice predictable oversteer when lifting off but keep the throttle planted and it never loses grip. Good tyres all round help there though I guess.

5th November 2007, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick_C

Just to bring this back up - it was me that posted that pic on SSC and changed from sports to Grp N on the back (on my race car, 106 GTI). Felt unstable under braking with the sports but is much firmer with the group N and the car understeers less - this is with GMC 40mm 160lb springs and 19mm torsion bars. I will prob be changing to stiffer front springs and rear TB for next year but the car is great to drive as it is.

Cheers

Nick

Unless you have a burning desire for change - if the car is feeling great leave it!

For a track car I would go stiffer. Road/Track sounds fine as is

6th November 2007, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

Unless you have a burning desire for change - if the car is feeling great leave it!

For a track car I would go stiffer. Road/Track sounds fine as is

What would you suggest on track?

Nick

6th November 2007, 18:51

200lb fronts, 22mm bars, 25mm arb.

6th November 2007, 19:01

220 springs

6th November 2007, 19:27

I was thinking that 22 maybe too much for 200lb springs as it feels ok at moment with 19 and 160lb?

Nick

6th November 2007, 19:31

I used to run 280Ib front springs for the road... Harder on track

160Ib would be far more comfortable day to day and for most perfectly adequate