torsion bar size

1. frankie Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye

   #1 3rd October 2007, 18:00

   whats the size of the torsion bar on a vtr?
   
   was looking thru kam racing and seen 23mm cit sport torsion bar.
   
   would there be much point putting them on or what?
2. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

   #2 3rd October 2007, 20:30

   you got a link?
   
   on a track car yes, on a road car no. as too stiff
   
   then you would need suspension to match it which means uprated shocks and springs or youll upset the handling
   
   whats your suspension now?
3. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

   #3 4th October 2007, 09:45

   Worth noting, that when you lower the rear, the suspension becomes a bit floppy, because of the different angle the suspension is at.
   
   I would like to change mine, but it's a costly affair. Agree with Bullit on this one, I wouldn't change it unless you are building a car for the track.
4. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

   #4 4th October 2007, 09:48

   correct me if i'm wrong, but for a vtr or vts, the most effective upgrade is to just get hold of a 106 gti arb as its a touch bigger and is relatively cheap.
5. frankie Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye

   #5 4th October 2007, 15:31

   so for better handeling it would be more cost efficent to upgrade the ARB than the torsion bar.
6. frankie Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye

   #6 4th October 2007, 15:31

   plus a decent suspension kit.
7. jeeves_101 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5

   #7 4th October 2007, 21:11

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by frankie640 so for better handeling it would be more cost efficent to upgrade the ARB than the torsion bar.

   i believe so, plus you can pick up a 106 Gti rear arb quite cheap if you watch out on ebay.
   
   belive its about 1-2mm bigger than the vtr/vts one.
8. frankie Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye

   #8 4th October 2007, 21:14

   24mm arnt they the gti ones?
9. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

   #9 4th October 2007, 21:17

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by frankie640 plus a decent suspension kit.

   first decide what youll use the car for? fast road track etc. then theres budget ?
   
   but your first thing to do is a get a sus kit. bilstein is what you want, as said depending on what stiffness you want will determine what kit you want?
   
   torsion bar is the last thing you wanna think about changing.
10. frankie Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye

    #10 4th October 2007, 21:20

    well hope to use the car like you said fast road/track.
    
    was thinking of bilstein B8's??
    
    dont wanna spend more than 500 on a suspension kit?
11. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #11 4th October 2007, 21:21

    If you go for stiff springs at the front then you need to increase the stiffeness of the rear IF you want to keep the balance the same as the standard car. The only way to do this is with torsion bars. ARBs and dampers have no effect on that.
    
    Certainly with b8 sprintline shocks and road spec lowering springs you would be fine not to change the torsion bar
12. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #12 4th October 2007, 21:41

    b8s or sprint mate. depends how hardcore you wanna go. then after that there mounts, bushes, braces, arbs you can add on after to make you car go silly speeds round corners
13. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #13 4th October 2007, 21:42

    i thought a vts arb was bigger than a vtr?
14. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #14 4th October 2007, 21:54

    whacking just bigger bars and bigger arbs are dangerous, you will need to match the shocks with it and the front springs, id also say 23mm will be overkill for 90% of the ability of saxo drivers
15. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #15 5th October 2007, 09:57

    When I lowered the rear on my 106, you could honestly press down on the tailgate with one finger and get the car to bump up and down. I set the dampers (Koni) to their stiffest setting, and it's better now. I still think the rear is way too soft after you lower it. So, IMO, I would recommend stiffer torsion bars at the rear if you have lowered the car and fitted stiffer springs at the front.
16. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #16 5th October 2007, 10:33

    due to the way the torsion bars work the effective spring rate gets less as the car gets lower.
17. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #17 5th October 2007, 10:52

    Which is the opposite of what you ideally want. Modern suspension on expensive sporty motors, tend to have springs which are soft initially, but soon become quite stiff, so you have the handling benifit of hard suspension, and don't bust your arse while driving around town.
18. meekie Newbie Joined: Jul 2004 clogher United Kingdom (Northern Ireland) Posts: 16

    #18 5th October 2007, 13:52

    where can u buy struts for a 2000 vts saxo to change the torsion bars til springs
19. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #19 5th October 2007, 22:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by meekie where can u buy struts for a 2000 vts saxo to change the torsion bars til springs

    you cant, you would have to have custom made turrets at the rear end for them to attach to
20. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #20 5th October 2007, 22:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Toad IMO, I would recommend stiffer torsion bars at the rear if you have lowered the car and fitted stiffer springs at the front.

    but if you dont have the correct dampers to go with them its potentially just as bad.