Cammed 1.1??

1. user_7076 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 Milton Keynes Posts: 8504 Audi A1 S-Line, Mazda MX5 Kuro, Renault Clio 1.2,

   #1 20th October 2007, 15:57

   right I have the oppurtunity to get some cams on the cheap from a mate who is splitting his car. I'm not sure what kind they are but they for 8V VTR.
   
   
   Now, I have a VTR 4-2-1 manifold already on the 1.1, the exhaust port spacing is identical, the block looks identical. Will the cams fit the 1.1? I have a feeling that I will.
   
   
   Don't start spouting shit about not getting gains on a 1.1. It was just rolling roaded at 75.8 BHP which is 15.8 BHP above standard.
   
   Obviously I'd get it remapped at same time, how much do you think I would gain?
   
   
   cheers,
   scott
2. Saxo-Slag Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Stockport, Manchester Posts: 5911 Vtr @ 123bhp R.I.P VTS

   #2 20th October 2007, 16:05

   Thought you was dropping a vts lump in it
3. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

   #3 20th October 2007, 16:06

   what cam is it Scott?
4. user_7076 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 Milton Keynes Posts: 8504 Audi A1 S-Line, Mazda MX5 Kuro, Renault Clio 1.2,

   #4 20th October 2007, 16:08

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by seanp06 Thought you was dropping a vts lump in it

   yeh but parents are giving me shit about it. They wont "entertain" it apparently. I'll put one in when I move to my flat next year but I might as well do stuff to the 1.1 engine until then. I'm getting these cheap so only expense will be the remap.
   
   
   

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by S34MER what cam is it Scott?

   I'm not sure, I think he mentioned 285.. don't know what make though
5. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

   #5 20th October 2007, 16:12

   I assume he's giving you the pulley aswell?
6. user_7076 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 Milton Keynes Posts: 8504 Audi A1 S-Line, Mazda MX5 Kuro, Renault Clio 1.2,

   #6 20th October 2007, 16:13

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by S34MER I assume he's giving you the pulley aswell?

   pass, I don't know what that is but I can ask him I suppose. In theory it should fit a 1.1 though?
7. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

   #7 20th October 2007, 16:15

   compression ratio is different innit?
   i dont *think* it will fit.
   
   
   15hp above standard?
   
   what magic rolling road was that?
8. user_7076 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 Milton Keynes Posts: 8504 Audi A1 S-Line, Mazda MX5 Kuro, Renault Clio 1.2,

   #8 20th October 2007, 16:17

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by adsayer compression ratio is different innit? i dont *think* it will fit. 15hp above standard? what magic rolling road was that?

   
   Wasn't magic, I now have:
   
   supersprint 4-2-1 manifold,
   supersprint race centre section
   sportex backbox
   Raceland enclosed induction scoop
   Fluffy dice
9. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

   #9 20th October 2007, 16:18

   i honestly couldn't say mate, you'd have to try it and see, i've know nothing about the 1100cc spec.
   
   The cam pulley is definately needed mate. the piper 285 is not a majorly wild cam iirc, but its capable of producing some pretty decent figures with a good re-map, on the VTR anyway. I couldn't even hazard a guess as to what sort of figures your looking at if you bang them in a 1.1
   
   I like they way your being different though, camming a 1.1, not sure its ever been done before!
10. Joesnow Frequent Poster Joined: May 2006 Posts: 691 Mk 1 VTS poseidon blue

    #10 20th October 2007, 16:18

    I’m not trying to nock you down or anything… but 15.8bhp up from standard is a lot without cams… that’s like a 26% hike in power… the equivalent of over 150bhp on a VTS without cams, and that’s got 16 valves
    
    Don’t believe everything the rolling road men tell you as they can’t actually give you an exact figure from a rolling road.
    
    If you’re getting them for cheap and they will fit… you might as well give them a try… I’m guessing you won’t get much more that 15.8bhp from standard with them fitted and remapped… it should sound nicer though
11. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

    #11 20th October 2007, 16:26

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Joesnow If you’re getting them for cheap and they will fit you might as well give them a try I’m guessing you won’t get much more that 15.8bhp from standard with them fitted and remapped it should sound nicer though

    sound nicer!?
    
    why will cams make it sound any different!?
12. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #12 20th October 2007, 16:28

    physically will fit mate but depends if it came from a silvertop engine aswell?
    
    75bhp is poss, gabbastards old 1.1 made that.
    
    change the inlet to a VTR should see a little more with that on. Bah I think I will build another lump but with tbs on
13. Joesnow Frequent Poster Joined: May 2006 Posts: 691 Mk 1 VTS poseidon blue

    #13 20th October 2007, 16:57

    imo the only noticeable difference will be a slightly changed engine note!...I doubt you will be able to tell the difference with a few extra bhp. It will rev slightly higher and might have a bit of a lumpy idle… and just might sound a bit different through the rev range…
    
    What did gabbastard do for 75bhp? I’m guessing that was a magical rolling road too! And tbh that isn’t exactly an impressive figure
14. user_7076 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 Milton Keynes Posts: 8504 Audi A1 S-Line, Mazda MX5 Kuro, Renault Clio 1.2,

    #14 20th October 2007, 17:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Joesnow imo the only noticeable difference will be a slightly changed engine note!...I doubt you will be able to tell the difference with a few extra bhp. It will rev slightly higher and might have a bit of a lumpy idle and just might sound a bit different through the rev range What did gabbastard do for 75bhp? I’m guessing that was a magical rolling road too! And tbh that isn’t exactly an impressive figure

    smaller engines still have the ability to have an increased engine output with a select few mods. Look at 1.2 turbos etc. They push out stupidly high power for their engine size.
    
    Even some guy on here did a 1.1 turbo and he got really good outputs.
15. Karl Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2006 Ashford Posts: 25611 LY R26

    #15 20th October 2007, 17:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snewham Even some guy on here did a 1.1 turbo and he got really good outputs.

    he has that in a Quicksilver shell i believe,
    says its far quicker than a VTR
16. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

    #16 20th October 2007, 17:30

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snewham smaller engines still have the ability to have an increased engine output with a select few mods.

    thats true but you've got to look at the percentage improvments here.
    
    Im not saying i dont believe you...
    I just dont believe its pushing out 75hp.
17. user_7076 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 Milton Keynes Posts: 8504 Audi A1 S-Line, Mazda MX5 Kuro, Renault Clio 1.2,

    #17 20th October 2007, 17:59

    Well anyway, I don't want peoples opinions just help on whether it will fit. The conclusion so far is that it will physically fit but whether it would idle properly after remap is another question
18. stiffler69 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 North East Posts: 5289

    #18 20th October 2007, 18:27

    I have a vtr cam sat on my driveway for about a year now rusting the initial size and things might good for you try out
19. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #19 20th October 2007, 19:06

    without a map theres not a massive point. want pulley aswell. you really would be best just getting a vts engine. your car would be rapid then.
20. NOSHERVTR Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2007 Hampshire Posts: 513 SILVER03VTR RED C2 VTS

    #20 20th October 2007, 19:25

    Yeh ok the smaller engines with a few "SELECT" mods may push up the performance a lil. I know you saying about the cars like the 1.4 gt turbo fiat and the other small engined cars with turbos toping the vtr/s but thats because they where built and designed like that. Think of the pressure your lil 1.1i engine will be under if you start messing with its main components like cams and ecu ect its more likely your pride and joy ( and it does look good by the way) will go bang under the strain so personally i wouldnt go der bud. think if you if could be dunno y didnt they design it like that in the first place, there is always a reason for not doing suming.
21. user_7076 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 Milton Keynes Posts: 8504 Audi A1 S-Line, Mazda MX5 Kuro, Renault Clio 1.2,

    #21 20th October 2007, 21:16

    As long as it's maintained properly and mapped properly then there shouldn't be any problems with reliability.
    
    
    VTS engine would be better but I haven't got a hope in hell to do that until next summer.
    
    scott
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NOSHERVTR Yeh ok the smaller engines with a few "SELECT" mods may push up the performance a lil. I know you saying about the cars like the 1.4 gt turbo fiat and the other small engined cars with turbos toping the vtr/s but thats because they where built and designed like that. Think of the pressure your lil 1.1i engine will be under if you start messing with its main components like cams and ecu ect its more likely your pride and joy ( and it does look good by the way) will go bang under the strain so personally i wouldnt go der bud. think if you if could be dunno y didnt they design it like that in the first place, there is always a reason for not doing suming.

22. Kwijibo_VTR Infrequent Poster Joined: Aug 2007 Peterhead Posts: 231 Citroen Saxo VTR

    #22 20th October 2007, 21:24

    Sounds like an intersting idea. I've never heard of anyone messing so much with a 1.1 but as Del Boy says "He who dares wins"
    If it fits before you start it up remember to turn the engine over a few times by hand, just incase a valve or 2 gets a bit too close to a piston.
    But I dont see why it can't work should sound like a mean machine after anyway.
23. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #23 20th October 2007, 21:29

    I reckon go for it and see lol. Havent got a clue if it will work. Could query
    somebody like Pug1off or GMC about it for more details?
    
    Then turbo it in summer like Sophies Bush?
24. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #24 20th October 2007, 21:44

    ahem yes the guy who turbod the 1.1 would be me. Is fine engine wise but electrical problems right now.
    
    tbh for now I would get a later VTR inlet bang that on and see how it goes, dunno if the cam will fit as not sure the cam bearing sizes are the same or not, it will go in and it will idle but it will be lumpy.
    
    I wouldn't go to far with it tbh, reason I did mine was because virtually everything was cheap enough. Could always go a different route and stick bike bodies on it lol
25. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #25 20th October 2007, 22:28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snewham As long as it's maintained properly and mapped properly then there shouldn't be any problems with reliability. VTS engine would be better but I haven't got a hope in hell to do that until next summer. scott

    id wait to the summer then and collect some 16v cams and goodies. worth the wait then
26. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #26 20th October 2007, 23:11

    I would think a change of inlet manifold would be a good next move.. get one off a 1.3 rallye.
    
    the cams I'm not so sure would work. Get them and try ..
27. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #27 20th October 2007, 23:55

    1.3 inlet wont fit port spacing is different remember. His is the newer type 3 stud top and 2 bottom and no the old 4 stuf op and 2 bottom
28. jpsaxo Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast

    #28 21st October 2007, 00:42

    tbh mate unless its really really cheap you might as well put the money towards the vts conversion?
    
    What were your figures at the wheels? as that is what the RR calculates the fly wheel figure from
29. Ry_B Frequent Poster Joined: Aug 2006 Solihull Posts: 798 RX8 231

    #29 21st October 2007, 01:48

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by snewham right I have the oppurtunity to get some cams on the cheap from a mate who is splitting his car. I'm not sure what kind they are but they for 8V VTR. Now, I have a VTR 4-2-1 manifold already on the 1.1, the exhaust port spacing is identical, the block looks identical. Will the cams fit the 1.1? I have a feeling that I will. Don't start spouting shit about not getting gains on a 1.1. It was just rolling roaded at 75.8 BHP which is 15.8 BHP above standard. Obviously I'd get it remapped at same time, how much do you think I would gain? cheers, scott

    Mate you have an 8V, in which case there is one cam, cam not cams
30. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #30 23rd October 2007, 20:41

    Just a quick question dude even tho you probably give the car mega death I guess it is still alright on petrol?
31. dobsd001 Infrequent Poster Joined: Jul 2006 West Sussex Posts: 116 Citroen Saxo Vts

    #31 23rd October 2007, 22:15

    I think you should definately have a go at it mate. sounds like a good idea and well done for staying different...
32. jayboy88 Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2007 ashford Posts: 165 golf gti 1.8t 20v

    #32 23rd October 2007, 22:23

    wats the point when its goin to be slow wat ever, theres no point wasting all that money on a remap when you can by a vts lump for 250 quid.
33. jayboy88 Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2007 ashford Posts: 165 golf gti 1.8t 20v

    #33 23rd October 2007, 22:24

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ry_B Mate you have an 8V, in which case there is one cam, cam not cams

    exactley wat i was thinkin
34. user_7076 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 Milton Keynes Posts: 8504 Audi A1 S-Line, Mazda MX5 Kuro, Renault Clio 1.2,

    #34 23rd October 2007, 22:26

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jayboy88 wats the point when its goin to be slow wat ever, theres no point wasting all that money on a remap when you can by a vts lump for 250 quid.

    Money is no issue to me to be honest, I'm just up for a challenge. I'm going to save for a VTS engine though instead of cams. I'll try a VTR inlet manifold though in the mean time as that's something I can pick up cheap.
    
    
    scott
35. jaybiss Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Jul 2004 Solihull Posts: 18231 Two Tone Sax

    #35 23rd October 2007, 22:32

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ry_B Mate you have an 8V, in which case there is one cam, cam not cams

    one camshaft with cams on it i thought
36. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

    #36 23rd October 2007, 22:38

    drop da bomb y0
37. GRAHAM2000VTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 peterborough Posts: 2861 2003 black vtr current escort van lol 2006 ford

    #37 23rd October 2007, 22:59

    as said well done for being different thats why u get in a magazine and other don't well dont mate
38. makaveli144 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Burton Posts: 3661 Alfa Romeo GT

    #38 23rd October 2007, 23:41

    I dont have a clue if it will fit tbh, but I think it would be worth the go. Do something different.
39. stiffler69 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 North East Posts: 5289

    #39 23rd October 2007, 23:42

    I have a vtr cam sat on my drive probably a little rusty now but i imagine it has a wilder profile than the 1.1 can if it fits ill recover it and you can have it for free will need a rub down and soak in oil by now though
40. redlinerdj Established Member Joined: May 2008 Birmingham Posts: 1021 Camm'd 1.1 FTW!

    #40 2nd December 2009, 21:45

    Any news on this? very interested in doing the same! please get bk to me, thanks.
41. benkelsall Established Member Joined: Jul 2008 Europe Posts: 1611

    #41 2nd December 2009, 21:51

    lol nice to bump an old thread
42. RustySkull Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2009 Basildon And Corringham, Essex Posts: 5179 MK1 Focus RS, Discovery TD5, Renault Trafic 2.0

    #42 2nd December 2009, 22:53

    I Cammed my 1.1, It's a PH3 Cam reprofiled slightly to fit with 1.1 Valves because the Valves hit the pistons before
43. TheSmith L-plater Joined: May 2009 Posts: 84 Green Saxo 1.1 2001

    #43 5th December 2009, 14:07

    ahh bike kid awsome responce were did you get the cams re profiled really want to cam my 1.1
44. RustySkull Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2009 Basildon And Corringham, Essex Posts: 5179 MK1 Focus RS, Discovery TD5, Renault Trafic 2.0

    #44 5th December 2009, 14:16

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheSmith ahh bike kid awsome responce were did you get the cams re profiled really want to cam my 1.1

    Talk to Pipercams, I talked them into doing mine
45. TheSmith L-plater Joined: May 2009 Posts: 84 Green Saxo 1.1 2001

    #45 5th December 2009, 18:15

    hahah nice
    
    is there much power increase ,
    
    any idle problams?
    
    and is a standalone ecu needed ?
46. RustySkull Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2009 Basildon And Corringham, Essex Posts: 5179 MK1 Focus RS, Discovery TD5, Renault Trafic 2.0

    #46 5th December 2009, 19:02

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheSmith hahah nice is there much power increase , any idle problams? and is a standalone ecu needed ?

    Well I haven't bothered mapping my ECU or anything, it's the standard ECU with Standard map, I'm putting a Track Engine in it soon, I only cammed it for fun to be honest but even with the stock setup it feels more powerful and it idles very lumpy which I love but others seem to hate
    
    Piper said it should add around 20hp if set up right so I'd like to think it added at least 10 haha
47. TheSmith L-plater Joined: May 2009 Posts: 84 Green Saxo 1.1 2001

    #47 5th December 2009, 19:11

    how much were you cams and shoudl i just email piper and ask about them and find out if they will still do some for me and is your sax a mk1 or mk2?
48. RustySkull Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2009 Basildon And Corringham, Essex Posts: 5179 MK1 Focus RS, Discovery TD5, Renault Trafic 2.0

    #48 5th December 2009, 19:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheSmith how much were you cams and shoudl i just email piper and ask about them and find out if they will still do some for me and is your sax a mk1 or mk2?

    I replied to your PM. And it's MK2 mate
49. stu-n-shell Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Perth Posts: 4798 posi blue desire vt lookalike

    #49 5th December 2009, 19:43

    i thought about this ages ago id like to go down a bodied 1.1 route to be different then i think the pred ecu could be adapted to run on a 1.1.
50. TheSmith L-plater Joined: May 2009 Posts: 84 Green Saxo 1.1 2001

    #50 5th December 2009, 20:24

    i'm going to ring rasp my local car tuning stop tomorrow and get my standard sax dynod and then do what i can to it and see how much power i can achive
51. RustySkull Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2009 Basildon And Corringham, Essex Posts: 5179 MK1 Focus RS, Discovery TD5, Renault Trafic 2.0

    #51 5th December 2009, 20:27

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheSmith i'm going to ring rasp my local car tuning stop tomorrow and get my standard sax dynod and then do what i can to it and see how much power i can achive

    Yeh! They should come stock at 65hp
52. gouldy87 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 3932

    #52 5th December 2009, 23:04

    i cant believe people are camming 1.1s
    
    this site is officially gay.
    
    if you want to be different, why not build a vts turbo on bodies, as far as im aware that has not been done yet.
    
    not cam a 1.1 to get sub 100 bhp.
    
    massive waste of cash and evreyone will be laughing at you
53. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

    #53 14th April 2010, 23:09

    some people on here need to get a grip if he wants to cam a 1.1 just leave him to it, prety shure a 65bhp sax with a good cam(20bhp), de-cat n ram air(10-15bhp), mibi a bit of headwork(5bhp or whatever) n it would rape a vtr, weight to power ratio, and in outright power pluswith the 1.1 box in it it would have pleanty of pick up
    
    only downside is it would be down on bottom end torque on a vtr.....maybe lol
    
    just got to try it and see mate let me know how it goes
54. joehow12 Frequent Poster Joined: Feb 2008 Blackheath London Posts: 538 Peugeot 205 gti 1.9 (LAD engine).

    #54 14th April 2010, 23:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed some people on here need to get a grip if he wants to cam a 1.1 just leave him to it, prety shure a 65bhp sax with a good cam(20bhp), de-cat n ram air(10-15bhp), mibi a bit of headwork(5bhp or whatever) n it would rape a vtr, weight to power ratio, and in outright power pluswith the 1.1 box in it it would have pleanty of pick up only downside is it would be down on bottom end torque on a vtr.....maybe lol just got to try it and see mate let me know how it goes

    what the fuck have you been smoking??
    
    Show me any camshaft that will improve a 1.1 by 20BHP and the thing still be driveable without thousands upon thousands of pounds worth of custom engine work?
55. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #55 14th April 2010, 23:30

    eye heart joehow he makes me wet
56. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #56 15th April 2010, 00:57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed some people on here need to get a grip if he wants to cam a 1.1 just leave him to it, prety shure a 65bhp sax with a good cam(20bhp), de-cat n ram air(10-15bhp), mibi a bit of headwork(5bhp or whatever) n it would rape a vtr, weight to power ratio, and in outright power pluswith the 1.1 box in it it would have pleanty of pick up only downside is it would be down on bottom end torque on a vtr.....maybe lol just got to try it and see mate let me know how it goes

    Just fucking LOL.
57. user_8040 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2005 MaDchester Posts: 8432 Vts

    #57 15th April 2010, 01:00

    lol this is over 2 years old...
58. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

    #58 15th April 2010, 01:05

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed some people on here need to get a grip if he wants to cam a 1.1 just leave him to it, prety shure a 65bhp sax with a good cam(20bhp), de-cat n ram air(10-15bhp), mibi a bit of headwork(5bhp or whatever) n it would rape a vtr, weight to power ratio, and in outright power pluswith the 1.1 box in it it would have pleanty of pick up only downside is it would be down on bottom end torque on a vtr.....maybe lol just got to try it and see mate let me know how it goes

    If only that was true lmao
    
    A cam that would gain you 20bhp on a 1.1 would be fairly lairy and would definetly need a remap to run right, another £500 or so spent on a 1.1. Just wait and buy a better car is the best answer.
59. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #59 15th April 2010, 01:10

    Gonna sell my VTR and get a 1.1 now with those sort of gains to be had.
60. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

    #60 15th April 2010, 08:53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed some people on here need to get a grip if he wants to cam a 1.1 just leave him to it, prety shure a 65bhp sax with a good cam(20bhp), de-cat n ram air(10-15bhp), mibi a bit of headwork(5bhp or whatever) n it would rape a vtr, weight to power ratio, and in outright power pluswith the 1.1 box in it it would have pleanty of pick up only downside is it would be down on bottom end torque on a vtr.....maybe lol just got to try it and see mate let me know how it goes

    You couldn't possibly be more retarded if you tried...
61. user_43116 Frequent Poster Joined: Mar 2010 Oswestry Shropshire/Wrexham, North Wales Posts: 506 Mk1 Silver VTR

    #61 15th April 2010, 08:57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by saxspeed some people on here need to get a grip if he wants to cam a 1.1 just leave him to it, prety shure a 65bhp sax with a good cam(20bhp), de-cat n ram air(10-15bhp), mibi a bit of headwork(5bhp or whatever) n it would rape a vtr, weight to power ratio, and in outright power pluswith the 1.1 box in it it would have pleanty of pick up only downside is it would be down on bottom end torque on a vtr.....maybe lol just got to try it and see mate :d let me know how it goes

    warning epic amounts of fail detected in the vicinity of the above post............
62. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

    #62 15th April 2010, 17:14

    Confused myself there i meant to put the cam would gain about 20bhp along with a de-cat n ram air, must nt of been payin atention in a world of my own lol
    
    but to be honest if you did all tht to a 1.1 and mibi skimed the head n done the ports, little bit of lightening it would be quite an acheivement to be not far off a vtr if not quicker acceleration just down on torque. plus if you can get the ecu limiter removed or backed off a higher singing engine will preduce more revs obvuisly increasing bhp
    
    and do know what im talking about i tune engines that i have ran in the 125gp brittish superbikes and broke lap records on them and at the end of the day an engines an engine.
    
    i think u should do it just for the pleasure of folk sayin " you got a vtr in that" n you can turn round n go " na u jus got beat by a 1.1" lol
63. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #63 15th April 2010, 17:19

    Please stop digging a larger hole.
    
    Revving an engine higher does not necessarily produce more BHP output. It depends on how much torque can be achieved at that given point. Maximum BHP will always drop before the limiter is set in a standard road car.
64. user_43116 Frequent Poster Joined: Mar 2010 Oswestry Shropshire/Wrexham, North Wales Posts: 506 Mk1 Silver VTR

    #64 15th April 2010, 17:26

    Time to put the spade down.....
65. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

    #65 15th April 2010, 17:40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Confused myself there i meant to put the cam would gain about 20bhp along with a de-cat n ram air, must nt of been payin atention in a world of my own lol but to be honest if you did all tht to a 1.1 and mibi skimed the head n done the ports, little bit of lightening it would be quite an acheivement to be not far off a vtr if not quicker acceleration just down on torque. plus if you can get the ecu limiter removed or backed off a higher singing engine will preduce more revs obvuisly increasing bhp and do know what im talking about i tune engines that i have ran in the 125gp brittish superbikes and broke lap records on them and at the end of the day an engines an engine. i think u should do it just for the pleasure of folk sayin " you got a vtr in that" n you can turn round n go " na u jus got beat by a 1.1" lol

    I have actually just laughed out loud.
    
    As toad said - Maximum BHP will always drop before the limiter is set in a standard road car.
66. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #66 15th April 2010, 17:53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Confused myself there i meant to put the cam would gain about 20bhp along with a de-cat n ram air, must nt of been payin atention in a world of my own lol but to be honest if you did all tht to a 1.1 and mibi skimed the head n done the ports, little bit of lightening it would be quite an acheivement to be not far off a vtr if not quicker acceleration just down on torque. plus if you can get the ecu limiter removed or backed off a higher singing engine will preduce more revs obvuisly increasing bhp and do know what im talking about i tune engines that i have ran in the 125gp brittish superbikes and broke lap records on them and at the end of the day an engines an engine. i think u should do it just for the pleasure of folk sayin " you got a vtr in that" n you can turn round n go " na u jus got beat by a 1.1" lol

    LMAO that made me laugh. Are you taking the piss?
67. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

    #67 15th April 2010, 17:55

    Just me, or does anyone else feel sorry for the people this n00b tunes engines for?
    
    ur 1.1 is now sikkk blud
68. user_26394 Saxperience Addict Joined: Aug 2008 Bedworth Posts: 10221 106 gti

    #68 15th April 2010, 18:01

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Confused myself there i meant to put the cam would gain about 20bhp along with a de-cat n ram air, must nt of been payin atention in a world of my own lol but to be honest if you did all tht to a 1.1 and mibi skimed the head n done the ports, little bit of lightening it would be quite an acheivement to be not far off a vtr if not quicker acceleration just down on torque. plus if you can get the ecu limiter removed or backed off a higher singing engine will preduce more revs obvuisly increasing bhp and do know what im talking about i tune engines that i have ran in the 125gp brittish superbikes and broke lap records on them and at the end of the day an engines an engine. i think u should do it just for the pleasure of folk sayin " you got a vtr in that" n you can turn round n go " na u jus got beat by a 1.1" lol

    
69. joehow12 Frequent Poster Joined: Feb 2008 Blackheath London Posts: 538 Peugeot 205 gti 1.9 (LAD engine).

    #69 15th April 2010, 18:44

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Confused myself there i meant to put the cam would gain about 20bhp along with a de-cat n ram air, must nt of been payin atention in a world of my own lol but to be honest if you did all tht to a 1.1 and mibi skimed the head n done the ports, little bit of lightening it would be quite an acheivement to be not far off a vtr if not quicker acceleration just down on torque. plus if you can get the ecu limiter removed or backed off a higher singing engine will preduce more revs obvuisly increasing bhp and do know what im talking about i tune engines that i have ran in the 125gp brittish superbikes and broke lap records on them and at the end of the day an engines an engine. i think u should do it just for the pleasure of folk sayin " you got a vtr in that" n you can turn round n go " na u jus got beat by a 1.1" lol

    mate an increase in Revs does not mean an increase in power.... Cars have peak power that will usually drop off a little before the red line....its called a power band.
    
    An exhaust and "ram air" as you put it will probs get what maybe 2-4 Bhp maybe 5bhp if your lucky from a 1.1. You then still expect a Cam to produce 15BHP.... this really is garbage.
70. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #70 15th April 2010, 19:00

    Looking at the bigger picture here chaps...
    
    A 50% increase of fuck all, is still fuck all...
    
    
71. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #71 15th April 2010, 19:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed some people on here need to get a grip if he wants to cam a 1.1 just leave him to it, prety shure a 65bhp sax with a good cam(20bhp), de-cat n ram air(10-15bhp), mibi a bit of headwork(5bhp or whatever) n it would rape a vtr, weight to power ratio, and in outright power pluswith the 1.1 box in it it would have pleanty of pick up only downside is it would be down on bottom end torque on a vtr.....maybe lol just got to try it and see mate let me know how it goes

    rofl....
    
    Out right power made me laugh the most.
72. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #72 15th April 2010, 19:01

    this thread is full of fail.
    
    tuning a 1.1 why piss into the wind, it just comes back and gets your leg damp. As for sax speed, tuning tips from a cereal box? Higher RPM wont mean more power if the 'cam' isnt right for the application, the standard cam isnt. Hence why you see on rolling roads the 'peak' is often slightly before the limiter
73. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #73 15th April 2010, 19:04

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ashleyp Just me, or does anyone else feel sorry for the people this n00b tunes engines for? ur 1.1 is now sikkk blud

    sikkk or shit?
    Not sure if you put a typo or not.
74. joehow12 Frequent Poster Joined: Feb 2008 Blackheath London Posts: 538 Peugeot 205 gti 1.9 (LAD engine).

    #74 15th April 2010, 19:04

    thats what i said ryan
75. Mardgee Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2007 Newcastle upon tyne Posts: 560 VTR

    #75 15th April 2010, 19:05

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed plus if you can get the ecu limiter removed or backed off a higher singing engine will preduce more revs obvuisly increasing bhpl

    If you unlock the ecu i believe you get rid of the limiter? If you do that your car should be pretty rapid mate along with the cams and airfilter.

    1 user thanked this post: user_26394
76. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

    #76 15th April 2010, 19:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Steve sikkk or shit? Not sure if you put a typo or not.

    was "sikk" as in a piss take
    
    subliminally, i meant shit with a capital S
    
    and lol toad - it'll be worth it when he 'beats that vtr' down the local highstreet on road wars
77. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #77 15th April 2010, 19:08

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mardgee If you unlock the ecu i believe you get rid of the limiter? If you do that your car should be pretty rapid mate along with the cams and airfilter.

    unlocking an ecu doesn't get rid of the limiter.
78. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #78 15th April 2010, 19:09

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ashleyp was "sikk" as in a piss take subliminally, i meant shit with a capital S and lol toad - it'll be worth it when he 'beats that vtr' down the local highstreet on road wars

    i knew what you meant
    
    Sikkk shit < my new saying for a few days.
79. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #79 15th April 2010, 19:10

    airbox - 10bhp
    camshaft - 20bhp
    headwork well thats another 15
    remap another 400
    exhaust 20bhp...
    
    Yep thats a 500bhp 1.1
80. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #80 15th April 2010, 19:11

    Is saxspeed the same guy who posted a thread on how (not) to lower a rear beam?
81. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #81 15th April 2010, 19:12

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LeeumH Is saxspeed the same guy who posted a thread on how (not) to lower a rear beam?

    the one which was a word for word copy from the max power haynes
82. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #82 15th April 2010, 19:35

    wow this thread is making my minge wet
83. Ferg Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2007 Maidstone, Kent Posts: 4928 Clio 197 Cup

    #83 15th April 2010, 20:03

    How dog is Saxp these days.

    1 user thanked this post: Sophia_Bush
84. joehow12 Frequent Poster Joined: Feb 2008 Blackheath London Posts: 538 Peugeot 205 gti 1.9 (LAD engine).

    #84 15th April 2010, 20:05

    fucking lol
85. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

    #85 15th April 2010, 20:18

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Toad Please stop digging a larger hole. Revving an engine higher does not necessarily produce more BHP output. It depends on how much torque can be achieved at that given point. Maximum BHP will always drop before the limiter is set in a standard road car.

    well it wouldnt be a standerd road car would it Doi!!!
    like i said back off the limiter will increase the break horsepower coz it cn rev free`er and higher into the "powerband" u tw*t
    
    if you hit the limiter at 6 n a half then obvuisly the cars wanting to pull more, there for backing of the limiter will let it rev and pull more
    
    Torque is bottom end power and as you accelerate it drops as the bhp increases.
    
    okay then Considering all of yous are "Citroen Saxo Tuning Engineers" if the limiter of a vtr was at 3k rpm it wouldnt be 100bhp, it would be less, alot less,
    backing off the limiter runs the engine closer to niping up as most internal botom end mods do but acheiving more bhp as the engines having to work harder for instance 1500 rpm harder, and before someone says its not a bottom end mod... well it makes the bottom end work alot harder
    
    and as for acheiving the beast bhp before its peak point thats most likely down to your engine air fuel mix if its backing of power before maximum revs then its geting to much (probably down to a stupid airfilter) and you would need to lean it off as the engine will be runing to ritch.
    
    And by the way you had better tell all the folk that race saxo 1600s to put there limiters back on there cars, afterall some random says it dnt make a diff :|
    
    so before you go shouting ur mouths of how bout u actualy know what ur talkin bout instead of all leaving coments like sheep
    
86. joehow12 Frequent Poster Joined: Feb 2008 Blackheath London Posts: 538 Peugeot 205 gti 1.9 (LAD engine).

    #86 15th April 2010, 20:22

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed well it wouldnt be a standerd road car would it Doi!!! like i said back off the limiter will increase the break horsepower coz it cn rev free`er and higher into the "powerband" u tw*t if you hit the limiter at 6 n a half then obvuisly the cars wanting to pull more, there for backing of the limiter will let it rev and pull more Torque is bottom end power and as you accelerate it drops as the bhp increases. okay then Considering all of yous are "Citroen Saxo Tuning Engineers" if the limiter of a vtr was at 3k rpm it wouldnt be 100bhp, it would be less, alot less, backing off the limiter runs the engine closer to niping up as most internal botom end mods do but acheiving more bhp as the engines having to work harder for instance 1500 rpm harder, and before someone says its not a bottom end mod... well it makes the bottom end work alot harder and as for acheiving the beast bhp before its peak point thats most likely down to your engine air fuel mix if its backing of power before maximum revs then its geting to much (probably down to a stupid airfilter) and you would need to lean it off as the engine will be runing to ritch. And by the way you had better tell all the folk that race saxo 1600s to put there limiters back on there cars, afterall some random says it dnt make a diff :| so before you go shouting ur mouths of how bout u actualy know what ur talkin bout instead of all leaving coments like sheep

    lol at you, you silly fool. You cannot even type correctly god knows what you are like with mechanical things.
    
    Torque is not just low down power you fool ideally torque and bhp should have a nice steady line following each other upwards.
    
    So your theory mr is that if I remove my rev limited my car will continue to produce higher and higher power figures.
    
    So in theory the point my engine explodes in my 1.1 when im revving the balls of it its making 50000000BHP.
    
    Tell me how long have you been retarded..maybe we can help you
87. classicvin Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2009 Yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 263 saxo 1.1 expose vtr kit

    #87 15th April 2010, 20:22

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed well it wouldnt be a standerd road car would it Doi!!! like i said back off the limiter will increase the break horsepower coz it cn rev free`er and higher into the "powerband" u tw*t if you hit the limiter at 6 n a half then obvuisly the cars wanting to pull more, there for backing of the limiter will let it rev and pull more Torque is bottom end power and as you accelerate it drops as the bhp increases. okay then Considering all of yous are "Citroen Saxo Tuning Engineers" if the limiter of a vtr was at 3k rpm it wouldnt be 100bhp, it would be less, alot less, backing off the limiter runs the engine closer to niping up as most internal botom end mods do but acheiving more bhp as the engines having to work harder for instance 1500 rpm harder, and before someone says its not a bottom end mod... well it makes the bottom end work alot harder and as for acheiving the beast bhp before its peak point thats most likely down to your engine air fuel mix if its backing of power before maximum revs then its geting to much (probably down to a stupid airfilter) and you would need to lean it off as the engine will be runing to ritch. And by the way you had better tell all the folk that race saxo 1600s to put there limiters back on there cars, afterall some random says it dnt make a diff :| so before you go shouting ur mouths of how bout u actualy know what ur talkin bout instead of all leaving coments like sheep

    
    
    the above is a bib, i suggest you invest in one.
88. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #88 15th April 2010, 20:23

    You couldn't teach me anything. Not about cars, engines, life, etc.
89. user_26394 Saxperience Addict Joined: Aug 2008 Bedworth Posts: 10221 106 gti

    #89 15th April 2010, 20:24

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Toad You couldn't teach me anything. Not about cars, engines, life, etc.

    Wheras Fonts and not quitting when behind he could
90. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

    #90 15th April 2010, 20:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by joehow12 lol at you, you silly fool. You cannot even type correctly god knows what you are like with mechanical things. Torque is not just low down power you fool ideally torque and bhp should have a nice steady line following each other upwards. So your theory mr is that if I remove my rev limited my car will continue to produce higher and higher power figures. So in theory the point my engine explodes in my 1.1 when im revving the balls of it its making 50000000BHP. Tell me how long have you been retarded..maybe we can help you

    
    
    Torque goes down as bhp increases for a start lol
91. user_25465 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 5250 Pink Jazz

    #91 15th April 2010, 20:25

    Im pretty clueless when it comes to mechanics but even I chuckled at this.
92. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

    #92 15th April 2010, 20:25

    FUCKING LOL at trying to justify yourself and in actual fact being even more retarded than in any previous post
    
    this has gone wildly off topic, and in conclusion only a tard would tune a 1.1
    
    init
93. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #93 15th April 2010, 20:26

    This thread is now -
    
    
    
    smacks you in the face full of fail
94. french_baguette Frequent Poster Joined: Mar 2010 Stoke on Trent Posts: 523 Mk1 VTS Nissan 350z

    #94 15th April 2010, 20:27

    o rly?
95. bushy90 Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 Kent Posts: 602 R53 MCS

    #95 15th April 2010, 20:27

    Lol....
96. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #96 15th April 2010, 20:31

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Torque goes down as bhp increases for a start lol

    Wrong again.
    
    Is this a wind up?
97. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #97 15th April 2010, 20:32

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bickerton Wheras Fonts and not quitting when behind he could

    True...
98. Ferg Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2007 Maidstone, Kent Posts: 4928 Clio 197 Cup

    #98 15th April 2010, 20:33

    This guy is genuinely confusing his own opinion. With fact!
99. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

    #99 15th April 2010, 20:33

    ok then gt a car dyno ran standerd then again without a limiter, weel c whos rite then yer?
    
    a car reving at 4k is not got as much bhp as when its at 6k, so einsteins u sayin its gona go down if you back it off to 7.5k?
100. user_25465 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 5250 Pink Jazz

     #100 15th April 2010, 20:34

     Someone post a RR graph please
101. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

     #101 15th April 2010, 20:35

     When will this end, i don't often laugh at things on here but i continue to chuckle at this thread.
102. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

     #102 15th April 2010, 20:36

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed ok then gt a car dyno ran standerd then again without a limiter, weel c whos rite then yer? a car reving at 4k is not got as much bhp as when its at 6k, so einsteins u sayin its gona go down if you back it off to 7.5k?

     Should have gone to school you stupid / deluded rubout

     1 user thanked this post: Sophia_Bush
103. Peter_D Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2004 Helmsdale Posts: 8832 DC5 Teg

     #103 15th April 2010, 20:36

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed well it wouldnt be a standerd road car would it Doi!!! like i said back off the limiter will increase the break horsepower coz it cn rev free`er and higher into the "powerband" u tw*t if you hit the limiter at 6 n a half then obvuisly the cars wanting to pull more, there for backing of the limiter will let it rev and pull more Torque is bottom end power and as you accelerate it drops as the bhp increases. okay then Considering all of yous are "Citroen Saxo Tuning Engineers" if the limiter of a vtr was at 3k rpm it wouldnt be 100bhp, it would be less, alot less, backing off the limiter runs the engine closer to niping up as most internal botom end mods do but acheiving more bhp as the engines having to work harder for instance 1500 rpm harder, and before someone says its not a bottom end mod... well it makes the bottom end work alot harder and as for acheiving the beast bhp before its peak point thats most likely down to your engine air fuel mix if its backing of power before maximum revs then its geting to much (probably down to a stupid airfilter) and you would need to lean it off as the engine will be runing to ritch. And by the way you had better tell all the folk that race saxo 1600s to put there limiters back on there cars, afterall some random says it dnt make a diff :| so before you go shouting ur mouths of how bout u actualy know what ur talkin bout instead of all leaving coments like sheep

     What a fucking spastic
104. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

     #104 15th April 2010, 20:36

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed ok then gt a car dyno ran standerd then again without a limiter, weel c whos rite then yer? a car reving at 4k is not got as much bhp as when its at 6k, so einsteins u sayin its gona go down if you back it off to 7.5k?

     Depends purely on the engine itself. They don't go on producing power forever in the RPM range.
105. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

     #105 15th April 2010, 20:37

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Ashleyp Should have gone to school you stupid / deluded rubout

     more please ash!
106. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #106 15th April 2010, 20:38

     Let me make this easy for you.
     
     INCREASING THE REV LIMIT WILL NOT GIVE YOU MORE POWER IF THE CAM PROFILE IS MAKING PEAK POWER BELOW THE LIMIT ALLREADY

     1 user thanked this post: unreal106
107. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

     #107 15th April 2010, 20:38

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush more please ash!

     I'm actually shocked that this scrub continues to argue with half of the forum...
     
     can he not see how "special" he is
108. user_25465 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 5250 Pink Jazz

     #108 15th April 2010, 20:40

     Someone just show him a RR graph, I want to hear his reaction
109. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

     #109 15th April 2010, 20:41

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by stinkycheese Someone just show him a RR graph, I want to hear his reaction

     he can't even spell
     
     i doubt he can understand a graph lol.
     
     couldnt have failed more if he tried
110. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #110 15th April 2010, 20:41

     Before - http://www.ecu-remapping-service.com...-before(1).jpg
     
     After - http://www.ecu-remapping-service.com...M-after(1).jpg
111. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #111 15th April 2010, 20:42

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by stinkycheese Someone just show him a RR graph, I want to hear his reaction

     
     
     Incase the big line dropping off isnt that clear
112. Mardgee Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2007 Newcastle upon tyne Posts: 560 VTR

     #112 15th April 2010, 20:42

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed well it wouldnt be a standerd road car would it Doi!!! like i said back off the limiter will increase the break horsepower coz it cn rev free`er and higher into the "powerband" u tw*t if you hit the limiter at 6 n a half then obvuisly the cars wanting to pull more, there for backing of the limiter will let it rev and pull more Torque is bottom end power and as you accelerate it drops as the bhp increases. okay then Considering all of yous are "Citroen Saxo Tuning Engineers" if the limiter of a vtr was at 3k rpm it wouldnt be 100bhp, it would be less, alot less, backing off the limiter runs the engine closer to niping up as most internal botom end mods do but acheiving more bhp as the engines having to work harder for instance 1500 rpm harder, and before someone says its not a bottom end mod... well it makes the bottom end work alot harder and as for acheiving the beast bhp before its peak point thats most likely down to your engine air fuel mix if its backing of power before maximum revs then its geting to much (probably down to a stupid airfilter) and you would need to lean it off as the engine will be runing to ritch. And by the way you had better tell all the folk that race saxo 1600s to put there limiters back on there cars, afterall some random says it dnt make a diff :| so before you go shouting ur mouths of how bout u actualy know what ur talkin bout instead of all leaving coments like sheep

     I love you. Seriously made my day. By any chance do you work for halfords or Kwick fit?
113. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #113 15th April 2010, 20:43

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Before - http://www.ecu-remapping-service.com...-before(1).jpg After - http://www.ecu-remapping-service.com...M-after(1).jpg

     changing the MAP itself is totally different to just increasing the rev limiter, would you like to show me where the 'rpm' is on those graphs?
     
     Notice that they BOTH tail off? or is that missed by you?
114. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

     #114 15th April 2010, 20:44

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Before - http://www.ecu-remapping-service.com...-before(1).jpg After - http://www.ecu-remapping-service.com...M-after(1).jpg

     Sorry mate, i apologise on behalf of the members of this forum and myself for any distress we may have caused you, the two above links prove us all wrong. You are infact correct and we are all deaply sorry for doubting you, you are a automotive and tuning genious. NOT
115. user_26394 Saxperience Addict Joined: Aug 2008 Bedworth Posts: 10221 106 gti

     #115 15th April 2010, 20:47

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by stinkycheese Someone post a RR graph please

     
116. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #116 15th April 2010, 20:48

     Purpose
     
     The rev limiter on a car is there to prevent over-reving, which will destroy the engine. Most gasoline cars designed for street use have a limiter somewhere around 6000-7000 RPM. In some cases, being able to rev the engine higher will yield slightly better performance, often at the cost of more engine wear.
     
     When to remove the rev limiter
     You should only worry about raising the rev limiter once you've done substantial work to the engine. My personal advice would be to have at least the full exhaust upgraded (including the exhaust manifold and downpipe), a sport camshaft and some way to get more fuel to the engine.
     Once you install a sport camshaft you will want to raise the rev limiter so you can use the power the camshaft makes above 6000 RPM
     
     found tht
117. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #117 15th April 2010, 20:49

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Ryan changing the MAP itself is totally different to just increasing the rev limiter, would you like to show me where the 'rpm' is on those graphs? Notice that they BOTH tail off? or is that missed by you?

     they tail off because you come off the power :L fool
118. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

     #118 15th April 2010, 20:50

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Purpose The rev limiter on a car is there to prevent over-reving, which will destroy the engine. Most gasoline cars designed for street use have a limiter somewhere around 6000-7000 RPM. In some cases, being able to rev the engine higher will yield slightly better performance, often at the cost of more engine wear. When to remove the rev limiter You should only worry about raising the rev limiter once you've done substantial work to the engine. My personal advice would be to have at least the full exhaust upgraded (including the exhaust manifold and downpipe), a sport camshaft and some way to get more fuel to the engine. Once you install a sport camshaft you will want to raise the rev limiter so you can use the power the camshaft makes above 6000 RPM found tht

     please explain why cars have peak power / torque which is lower than the rev limiter...
     
     you google searching scrub
119. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #119 15th April 2010, 20:51

     so you tune engines yet copy and paste from google?
     
     As we keep saying, if the cam profile is making peak rpm at say 5.5k what good is an 8k limit and how is the car going to gain extra power after it has peaked at 5.5k? please explain
120. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #120 15th April 2010, 20:51

     if the limiter of a vtr was at 3k rpm it wouldnt be 100bhp, it would be less, alot less,
     backing off the limiter runs the engine closer to niping up as most internal botom end mods do but acheiving more bhp as the engines having to work harder for instance 1500 rpm harder
     
     So ur all sayin thats wrong :L
121. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #121 15th April 2010, 20:51

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed they tail off because you come off the power :L fool

     The reason people come off the power is because the engines power has stopped going up hence the PEAK...
     
     lol
122. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #122 15th April 2010, 20:52

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Ryan so you tune engines yet copy and paste from google? As we keep saying, if the cam profile is making peak rpm at say 5.5k what good is an 8k limit and how is the car going to gain extra power after it has peaked at 5.5k? please explain

     
     you would run a higher rpm peak cam
123. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #123 15th April 2010, 20:54

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed if the limiter of a vtr was at 3k rpm it wouldnt be 100bhp, it would be less, alot less, backing off the limiter runs the engine closer to niping up as most internal botom end mods do but acheiving more bhp as the engines having to work harder for instance 1500 rpm harder So ur all sayin thats wrong :L

     But the limiter isnt 3k is it, its above where the PEAK power is allready.
     
     Hence why increasing the limiter on THIS engine to say 8k wont yield extra power as you have allready peaked.
     
     Its like sex, once you have come performance goes down
124. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

     #124 15th April 2010, 20:54

     ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
125. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #125 15th April 2010, 20:55

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed you would run a higher rpm peak cam

     Which is different to simply just increasing the RPM of the limiter isnt it
     
     What happens if you change the cam to one that peaks at 7k would you run 10k limit? so the extra 3k can gain all this power?
126. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

     #126 15th April 2010, 20:56

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed ok then gt a car dyno ran standerd then again without a limiter, weel c whos rite then yer?

     We certainly will... when it goes boom and pisses oil all over the shop.
     
     Here's a suggestion: get your 1.1 on the dual carriageway and up to a steady cruise. Then drop it back into 1st gear - following your logic, all will be gravy as cars don't need rev limiters... right?
127. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #127 15th April 2010, 20:56

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Ryan But the limiter isnt 3k is it, its above where the PEAK power is allready. Hence why increasing the limiter on THIS engine to say 8k wont yield extra power as you have allready peaked. Its like sex, once you have come performance goes down

     is this whole post not about changing the cam?
     so it wouldnt be a standerd engine, a higher peak power cam along with the limiter backed off will increase bhp
128. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #128 15th April 2010, 20:58

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by LeeumH We certainly will... when it goes boom and pisses oil all over the shop. Here's a suggestion: get your 1.1 on the dual carriageway and up to a steady cruise. Then drop it back into 1st gear - following your logic, all will be gravy as cars don't need rev limiters... right?

     Back off the limiter not take it away u mug
129. c20xejay Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Wakefield Posts: 594 seat leon fr

     #129 15th April 2010, 20:58

     cammed 1.1 wins end of..
130. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #130 15th April 2010, 20:58

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed is this whole post not about changing the cam? so it wouldnt be a standerd engine, a higher peak power cam along with the limiter backed off will increase bhp

     but you keep posting that the rev limit is whats limiting the power, when its not its the cam profile.
     
     Not all cam profiles are that wild to even justify a higher RPM from the engine, surely as a tuner you would know that cam profles are different and that every set up will be different according to this and the mapping
131. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #131 15th April 2010, 20:58

     plus it wouldnt go into 1st gear at that speed anyway
132. Peter_D Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2004 Helmsdale Posts: 8832 DC5 Teg

     #132 15th April 2010, 20:59

     Saxspeed, you don't have a clue what you're on about, you can't even word things convincingly.. fuck off and stop wasting everyones time
133. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

     #133 15th April 2010, 20:59

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Back off the limiter not take it away u mug

     That's not what you said...
     
     

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed ok then gt a car dyno ran standerd then again without a limiter, weel c whos rite then yer?

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed plus it wouldnt go into 1st gear at that speed anyway

     I beg to differ.
134. user_26394 Saxperience Addict Joined: Aug 2008 Bedworth Posts: 10221 106 gti

     #134 15th April 2010, 20:59

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed plus it wouldnt go into 1st gear at that speed anyway

     Why not?
135. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #135 15th April 2010, 21:00

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Ryan but you keep posting that the rev limit is whats limiting the power, when its not its the cam profile. Not all cam profiles are that wild to even justify a higher RPM from the engine, surely as a tuner you would know that cam profles are different and that every set up will be different according to this and the mapping

     no what im saying is once fitted a diff cam, eg. higher peak power cam, backing off the limiter u will gain more bhp than a 6000rpm peak power cam
136. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #136 15th April 2010, 21:01

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed no what im saying is once fitted a diff cam, eg. higher peak power cam, backing off the limiter u will gain more bhp than a 6000rpm peak power cam

     thats again dependant on the cam profile though and not simply bunging the limit higher.
     
     
137. c20xejay Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Wakefield Posts: 594 seat leon fr

     #137 15th April 2010, 21:01

     omg too confusing i think someone has cammed your brain with a load of babble saxspeed
138. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #138 15th April 2010, 21:02

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Bickerton Why not?

     You wana prove to me that you can put ur car into 1st gear at cruising Dual Carageway speed?
139. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #139 15th April 2010, 21:03

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed plus if you can get the ecu limiter removed or backed off a higher singing engine will preduce more revs obvuisly increasing bhp

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed no what im saying is once fitted a diff cam, eg. higher peak power cam, backing off the limiter u will gain more bhp than a 6000rpm peak power cam

     
140. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

     #140 15th April 2010, 21:04

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Ryan thats again dependant on the cam profile though and not simply bunging the limit higher.

     Bingo. I fitted a Kent cam to my VTR and it still made peak power well before the limiter.
     
     I wonder what the standard valve springs in a 1.1 look like at 9k revs.
141. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #141 15th April 2010, 21:05

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Ryan

     The whole post is about puting a diff cam in a 1.1 so why would i say it every single time??????????????
142. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #142 15th April 2010, 21:06

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed The whole post is about puting a diff cam in a 1.1 so why would i say it every single time??????????????

     As we keep saying not all cams require a higher rev limit you mong!
143. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #143 15th April 2010, 21:07

     im not saying they do you fuckin retard, im saying if you did
144. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #144 15th April 2010, 21:08

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed im not saying they do you fuckin retard, im saying if you did

     Do you want me to do a poll over whos posts in this thread are more retarded?
     
     you CLEARLY state that a higher singing engine will give more power, when it wont. lol
145. c20xejay Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Wakefield Posts: 594 seat leon fr

     #145 15th April 2010, 21:09

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Ryan Do you want me to do a poll over whos posts in this thread are more retarded?

     yes
146. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

     #146 15th April 2010, 21:09

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Ryan Do you want me to do a poll over whos posts in this thread are more retarded? you CLEARLY state that a higher singing engine will give more power, when it wont. lol

     Definetly.
147. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #147 15th April 2010, 21:09

     Canny b fucked wi u we english wanks heres a we joke for you
     
     Where in scotland is there more English than scots
148. user_42401 Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport

     #148 15th April 2010, 21:10

     Bannockburn Where we buried all you we english scum in 1314 haha
149. user_25465 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 5250 Pink Jazz

     #149 15th April 2010, 21:10

     Saxpeed; if you agree that peak power will be made well before limiter, what is the advantage of raising it?
150. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #150 15th April 2010, 21:11

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed im not saying they do you fuckin retard, im saying if you did

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by SaxSpeed Canny b fucked wi u we english wanks heres a we joke for you

     I think this is a great way to end.