Tune Vtr, Or Engine conversion?? PLEASE HELP

31st October 2007, 12:25

i have a standard 02 plate vtr and shes got great body work and looks great, also shes great underneath all that good body work exept a few things up front, both drive shafts are practically gone and the gear box whistles in the high revs ( dunno if this is normal??) also reverse grind wen you select it. so im after some opinions, selling the car is not an option so heres my options.....

1. get the drive shafts replaced and try and sort out the reverse gear and tune up the vtr lump, but i think this is going to work out very expensive as drive shafts are 76 quid each to start with!! and there aint gunna be much power gains tuning this engine up unless i turbo it which i aint got the cash for

2. number 2 is to find a good engine to take place of my vtr lump, because after spending all that money on drive shafts and tuning etc.... i think it would worth doin an engine conversion instead, but i dont know what engines will fit nicely in the saxo??? i dont want to put a vts lump in just for an extra 20-25bhp so does anyone know what engines would fit without too much modification to the engine bay?? help will be greatly appreciated cheers guys Saxo4Life.

31st October 2007, 12:27

Dont think there are many other choices without large modifcations tbh. Your best bet is to put in a VTS lump and then throttle body it or turbo it.

31st October 2007, 12:34

best doing a engine coversion and sticking a vts lump in it with a turbo or throttle bodies i would have say mate.

31st October 2007, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxoboy07

best doing a engine coversion and sticking a vts lump in it with a turbo or throttle bodies i would have say mate.

Echoo Echoo lol

agreed.

31st October 2007, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattchewone

Echoo Echoo lol

agreed.

lol, it is the best thing to do to gain some more bhp

31st October 2007, 12:42

well a turbo is out of my budget, i could only afford to keep my vtr lump and turbo it with second hand stuff like a turbo off an r5 which ive heard is a load of poo tho lol, what if i put throttle bodies on my vtr lump?? would there be a big increase in bhp? and whats the cost of them?? cheers saxo4life

31st October 2007, 12:51

Would be more beneficial throttle bodieng a VTS lump tbh.

31st October 2007, 13:05

ok so is a vts lump a straight swap 4 a vtr lump?? or does anything need to be modified?? also what would i expect to pay for a late vts lump and gear box?? cheers saxo4life

31st October 2007, 13:07

You would more than likely also need an unlocked ECU. Other than its a straight swap need all the correct fans etc. Not sure on price though pal, someone will be able to give a rough price though.

31st October 2007, 13:15

ok its starting to sound expensive, theres alot more work involved than i thought lol, theres a throttle body kit for sale on the bay for a saxo vtr silvertob engine with all the ecu etc... can i send you the link so you can take a peep to see if its anygood?? cheers

31st October 2007, 13:18

Post up the link on here so everyone can take a look and give there thoughts matey.

31st October 2007, 13:20

I have been considering this as well mate. I'm considering a VTS swap in the future but have also been thinking about a cam and bike throttle bodies with an aftermarket ECU on My existing. I reckon with a 4-2-1 manifold, de-cat, exhaust, cam, little bit of headwork and TB's i should be able to get 130hp at the flywheel with a fair amount of tourque. Prolly cost £2k for all of that.

Then hopefully when I want to swap to a VTS engine I can get a different inlet manifold and use the TB set up on the VTS.

31st October 2007, 13:21

oh ok, i didnt think you were aloud to post links lol here it is mate.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/saxo-106-fiest...QQcmdZViewItem

give me your thoughts guys cheers Saxo4life.

31st October 2007, 13:23

that throttle boddie looks good in the link.

31st October 2007, 13:24

Thats pretty much the setup I'm gunna use. Might be a bit difficult to setup. I'm gunna have to find somewhere to take mine.

31st October 2007, 13:24

I think you should stay with the R lump and make the most of what you have, so cam it, get a 4 branch, decent exhaust and induction then you can progress this further if you want with a P+P'd head etc..

This is what i'm doing.

31st October 2007, 13:28

Good setup that is. Do as james#0bristol says keep the VTR and tune.

31st October 2007, 13:29

what power gains would i be looking at if i just added those throttle bodies?? would there be a great increase?? cheers

31st October 2007, 13:30

there would be a good increase 35bhp to 45 bhp i'm guessing.

31st October 2007, 13:39

wow thats alot more than i thought, if i put them throttle bodies on it and camed it and put a good exhaust system on it what do you think the final bhp would be then?? i think i will stick with the vtr lump and unlock the power from it. cheers

31st October 2007, 13:40

Roughly 140-150bhp depending how well its mapped and how much you spend on it.

31st October 2007, 13:53

Forced induction ftw.

31st October 2007, 14:02

VTR,

TURBO ADAPTER. My last one was made up out of scrap so £0 or probably sub £50 for any metal workshop.

TURBO UNIT. £50 from scrap yard or sub £300 new.

DOWN PIPE. Again last one I made up was scrap £0 or sub £50 to have one made up.

OIL PIPES. Again scrap for me but there cheap new.

BOOST PIPE. Again scrap

FULLING. Simply a 4.5bar FPR is ok for a very basic turbo setup and cost not much. Or you can go all out and use a MF2 for sub £200 new. Then get scrap yard injectors and wire up your self. Or just a remap will work.

Yes a very basic turbo setup but will see you VTR hold its own with any stock or mild tune VTS. Also a boosted VTR has much more potential for tuning than a normally aspirated VTS.

Lets not forget as well its not that hard to get a boosted VTR lump to the point the standard gearbox will not take it. So unless your planning on spending enough as to get a BE box fitted and a uprated one at that there no real point opting for the VTS.

So for me a boosted VTR is the way to go for a fast road / track day car.

31st October 2007, 15:57

Hmm I can see see the appeal of a Turbo conversion. Personally I wanna keep NA just because I fancy it haha

31st October 2007, 16:31

you wouldn't see an added 35-40 bhp with just tb's.

31st October 2007, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeeves_101

you wouldn't see an added 35-40 bhp with just tb's.

totally agree m8 if it was that easy 2 get 30-40bhp from just itb's every1 would do it

31st October 2007, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxoboy07

there would be a good increase 35bhp to 45 bhp i'm guessing.

As has been mentioned doubt that would be possible. For that kinda power increase your guna need at least some internal engine work and a canny mad cam!

31st October 2007, 22:32

Working from engines I know:

Stock hatch VTRs tended to run over 120bhp with very limited mods last time I had anything to do with them.

My old 1360cc 8V was running near 160bhp that was effectively a full race engine. It did have more before it proved to have to narrow powerband.

I know a few people who have got just over 135bhp from the normal Mapped, Cam, Exhaust, Filter and so on that a lot of rad cars run in a VTR.

So I would imagine a extra 30bhp would not be impossible from otherwise stock VTR with a good set of well sorted bodies. I would have said more but the stock exhaust, Exhaust manifold and exhaust ports on the VTR are very restrictive. A good ported head and full exhaust and I would imagine much more would be possible.

1st November 2007, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXracing

Working from engines I know:

Stock hatch VTRs tended to run over 120bhp with very limited mods last time I had anything to do with them.

My old 1360cc 8V was running near 160bhp that was effectively a full race engine. It did have more before it proved to have to narrow powerband.

I know a few people who have got just over 135bhp from the normal Mapped, Cam, Exhaust, Filter and so on that a lot of rad cars run in a VTR.

So I would imagine a extra 30bhp would not be impossible from otherwise stock VTR with a good set of well sorted bodies. I would have said more but the stock exhaust, Exhaust manifold and exhaust ports on the VTR are very restrictive. A good ported head and full exhaust and I would imagine much more would be possible.

Hmm thats interesting to know Merci Buckets. I was recently reading in PFC that its worth swapping to the earlier flat rocker head if you have a Silvertop VTR is that true? It said the head/ rockers could take higher rev's?

1st November 2007, 08:15

You do not have to swap the head. Its the rockers that are used in the early engines are a lot stronger. If you shim them the early rockers will work to over 10,000rpm. The later rockers are a bit iffy at even near 8,000rpm

1st November 2007, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXracing

You do not have to swap the head. Its the rockers that are used in the early engines are a lot stronger. If you shim them the early rockers will work to over 10,000rpm. The later rockers are a bit iffy at even near 8,000rpm

So the rockers can just be switched aaahhhhh makes sense. I'm trying to pick knowledge up as I go along. Hmmm thanks for the info rep given

1st November 2007, 14:24

my 106 quiksilver is currently running

GMC 4-1 manifold
filter
magnex peugeot sport exhaust system
kent 266 cam

2 weeks ago i had it on a brand new set of rollers which seemed bang on the money pretty much with results from other cars on the day

it made 124.4 bhp and 105lbs of torque

the cam made a decent difference over when i had it rolling roaded before the cam the peak power was still raising up slightly all the way till it hit the limiter at 6750

1st November 2007, 14:26

im currently looking into a 280/285 cam and im told with a good remap they can run near as smooth as a standard cam

should make around 130-140bhp with a 280/285 cam and remap

would need the limiter setting at about 7500 i should think to make good use of a higher cam though

1st November 2007, 14:29

Same cam as i'm hopefully chucking in the 1400 at somepoint, the Piper 285..:d

1st November 2007, 14:32

285 in the 1.4 8v is an immensly massive increase

mate of mine fitted the same cam as i have in his quiksilver 1.4 8v and that was as high as you can possibly go without replacing springs and remap etc acording to kent

will a 285 run without bodies/carbs on the 1.4?

1st November 2007, 14:34

Apparently so..

Piper said a map will be needed for it to run at its best, also Kam racing off here has said it should work..

Would be better i expect with the Rallye injectors and inlet but i want to keep the std stuff as its lets hassle..

1st November 2007, 14:44

if your engine is 2002+ id stick on a vtr inlet for sure as there a touch bigger the 1.4 one is quite restrictive

same as with the pre 2000 1.4 inlets

never did it with my old lump but im told throttle response is much better

1st November 2007, 14:48

Yeah, its a 1999 model..

I'll see whats what, its a long way off yet anyway..

Cheers for the advice anyway's..

1st November 2007, 14:48

*EDITED* didnt want to hijack so created new thread.