vts conversion NIGHTMARE!! someone please help

2nd November 2007, 13:23

right people i bought a mk1 106 with a gti engine in so i could put the engine in my vtr, The Ecu was unlocked ( i think ) as the 106 never had a coded key and i ripped out the full car loom when i stripped it and it had no transponder box. The engine ran fine and i was running it 4 a while/

Anyway....

I put the engine,box and ecu in my sax and bougt a vts engine wiring loom because someone had modified the gti loom to plug into the mk1 106 multiplug. So its all wired up spot on.

Before my car was as vtr is was a 1.4 and the vtr ecu was unlocked so i presume the transponder box in my sax has been unplugged (under the dash i can onli find 1 black relay type thing which i have been told is for the central locking??

The car turns over fine but not firing?? and the engine management light is on, i know 4 sure all the sensors are fine and its all plugged up right.

What could it possibly be???

Has anyone got any pics of the transponder box for the coded key?
I personally think the ecu could be locked or my transponder is still plugged up???

Also which way round do the fual pipes go?? i have the fuel feed to the left nipple on fuel rail and return pipe on right nipple, is this correct??

Any help would be great..

Thanks in advance

2nd November 2007, 13:43

The immobiliser cuts the spark, so crank the engine on the key, and if its sparking, the problem doesnt lie with the ECU being locked.

2nd November 2007, 13:47

there is no spark mate, but theres no power to any thing else either such as injectors etc.
If the ecu is unlocked but my transponder box is plugged in will it prevent it from sparking etc??

2nd November 2007, 13:52

If it ran before, and your new car doesnt have an immobiliser box, then the ECU cant be locked.

Are you sure all the wiring is correct, cos thats the most obvious cause.

2nd November 2007, 13:59

im not sure if the transponder box on my saxo is unplugged??

I know for sure all the wiring is correct, all sensors are nearly brand new and loom was absolutely mint coz i checked it all before i fit it and auto electriction has been out and he says its something do do with either the ecu or transponder box.

Has anyone got a pic of a transponder box and where it is plugged?

2nd November 2007, 14:01

its up behind your passenger fusebox, has a really small rectangular flip-plug attached to it.

2nd November 2007, 14:09

all i can see is one black box ( i think is for the central locking) but cant see any plugs that have nothing connected to them ??

2nd November 2007, 14:55

anyone??

2nd November 2007, 17:58

anyone else had a problem like this? anyone got a pic of the transponder box?

2nd November 2007, 22:38

bump any1??

2nd November 2007, 22:48

i'll get a pic for you tomorrow of the transponder box

2nd November 2007, 22:54

if the engine ran in the 106 without a transponder key the ecu should be unlocked.
i've had similar problems before and it seems that 106 gti ecu's dont like to be conected to vts looms and some vts looms dont like to be conected to 1.4 looms.

2nd November 2007, 22:54

thanks alot mate

2nd November 2007, 23:34

so what do you think i should do ?

2nd November 2007, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICKYP-RPM

106 gti ecu's dont like to be conected to vts looms

For all intents and purposes, theyre identical dude.

Ive also used tons of different VTS engine looms on my 1.4 car loom and theyve all been fine. Maybe pot luck though.

3rd November 2007, 03:39

you need to check that your saxo has the transponder box DIS-connected as if it is connected it could be giving the new unlocked ecu mixed signals as once the ecu is unlocked the transponder box is no longer required and should not be disconected to it so having it connected could be interfering

3rd November 2007, 10:55

thanks people, so either my transponder box is connected or ecu is locked??

any1 got a pic of the transponder then and i will have a look.

3rd November 2007, 13:18

http://www.convery.me.uk/saxos.shtml

3rd November 2007, 13:21

Scott that link doesn't work mate.

And i hear alot of people have problems with a GTi engine rather than a VTS.

3rd November 2007, 13:37

i really need my car running

3rd November 2007, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott

http://www.convery.me.uk/saxos.shtml

here is the same file as the one scott posted:
http://www.asbomotorsport.co.uk/file...iecuunlock.pdf

unfortunatly its no good because u dont have the transponder from the orrigional ecu so you cant do it that way, here are some links to people who can unlock it for you without the orrigional transponder

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=109745

or bluehawk electronics can do it if you post it to them for £85, http://www.bluehawkelectronics.co.uk/

3rd November 2007, 22:29

bump.....

4th November 2007, 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by streetspecials

bump.....

so have you checked the stuff we have told you or not?

4th November 2007, 09:30

locked ecu will also stop the fuel pump running. if you cnat here the fuel pump priming and its turning over, then its probably locked. does the immob light flash?
are you sure you have alll the earths conected?

4th November 2007, 12:54

Yes i have all earths connected. The fuel pump never went even when it had the vtr engine in, i had to run an ignition live.

The is no spark, Fuel injection relay is clicking, RIpped all wiring out from under the dash and can only see 1 black box ( which must be the central locking) and i cant see anything else???

i just cant understand how the ecu is locked when it ran fine in the 106? i know for sure that didnt have a transponder box or coded key coz i ripped the full wiring loom out of the entire car.

4th November 2007, 13:10

no immobiliser light flashing

4th November 2007, 15:03

bump....

4th November 2007, 18:17

when i done mine all i got was engine , loom ,and ecu and as soon as my engine was in and ready to go i sent the ecu to ecu doctor week later it cum back and works fine

4th November 2007, 18:19

must be your dodgy wiring then.

4th November 2007, 19:08

Id take the loom out and start over tbh, checking all the electrics from the ground up.

If its not the ECU then it HAS to be the wiring.... it can't be anything else if its a known working engine.

4th November 2007, 19:17

rite peeps, today i have taken the loom off and checked it all, all the wires are fine, and all earths are connected and all plugs.

1 thing i have noticed- there has to be an ignition live wire going to one of the wires on the injection relay to make it click??? Could this be a wire thats meant to be a live from the ecu meaning the ecu is locked and not letting the live come out (if you get me)??

has anyone got a pic of the transponder box?? just so i can check its not connected?

Thanks for the help

4th November 2007, 19:26

y dose it matter

4th November 2007, 19:29

becuase if its connected my car wont run??

4th November 2007, 19:30

my one is tho

4th November 2007, 19:32

the transponder box is connected under the dash?? is you car running a unlocked ecu??

4th November 2007, 19:36

yeah y dont u do yours

4th November 2007, 19:48

because i thought it was unlocked coz there was no transponder box on the 106

4th November 2007, 22:42

so if i get the ecu unlocked it should be fine??

5th November 2007, 00:17

immobiliser box.

that is what needs removed. the transponder is what pisks the signal up from your key fob. nothing to do with the ecu.

5th November 2007, 10:41

ok thanks for that mate, so if i have an unlocked ecu but the box is connected, will my car go or not?

How many pins are on the transponder?

5th November 2007, 11:33

you on about the immobiliser? dunno, if that is still connected your unlocked ecu will now be locked again.

5th November 2007, 12:16

yeah i mean the black box under glovebox mate.

5th November 2007, 17:26

so best way is to get ecu unlocked and unplug all black boxes under dash ??

5th November 2007, 17:56

if you want a pic of the transponder box mate i have a post up for sale and there is a pic of one there mate hope this helps!! p.s if you have left the transponder box on and tried to start the car mate i have been told that the transponder can recode the ecu i dont know how true this is??

5th November 2007, 18:36

thanks mate, ill get the ecu unocked and unplug all the black boxes under dash n give that ago

5th November 2007, 20:16

you only need to unplug the box i posted a pic of. iv done this plenty times nad its worked.

5th November 2007, 20:37

i can only see 1 black box , which i think is for the central locking?? But i cant see any wires that arent plugged to anything so im not sure about the immobiliser box????

i dont wanna get the ecu unlocked to plug it in 4 it to be locked again.

5th November 2007, 20:38

the immob box is hidden right up the back behind the fuses, gotta get your hand right up there.

5th November 2007, 20:56

ive had all the fuse box down mate and all the wiring hangin down and can only see the one black box.

5th November 2007, 20:57

post a pic of it.

is there not spare plug then?

5th November 2007, 21:06

no there is no spare plugs, thats why im so confused.
Coz the central locking relay is a black box that looks just like the immobiliser isnt it??

5th November 2007, 21:08

no, its more of an obling shape whereas the immob is more square. think i have a pick of central locking.

5th November 2007, 21:09

this is your central locking/key fob box

5th November 2007, 21:10

arite thanks mate, suppose onli way to see is if i unplug it and see if central locking works

5th November 2007, 21:10

arite

thats great mate

5th November 2007, 21:11

that 1 above is def cent locking. 1 i posted on 1st page is the immob. there is another big box with a white sticker behind center console which is the alarm.

5th November 2007, 21:19

arite thats cool mate, thanks alot

so is the immobiliser box about the same sizze as the fuel injection relay under the ecu?

5th November 2007, 21:21

yeah, about the same size as a box of 20 lambert&butler

5th November 2007, 22:13

sound mate, will check it out 2moro, ill take pics if i get stuck

6th November 2007, 22:12

how did this go?

6th November 2007, 22:44

havent had time today, will let you all know 2moro

11th November 2007, 14:09

hi peeps, finally had time to pull all the wiring out and i have found this-

Is that the immobiliser box i need to un-plug???

thanks

11th November 2007, 14:25

Yes it is mate

11th November 2007, 15:16

thanks alot bud, just checkin coz i dont wanna get my ecu back and lock it agen lol

11th November 2007, 19:30

thats it, told you it was tucked away

11th November 2007, 20:16

thanks alot for your help guys

:Y:

11th November 2007, 23:23

did it run when u un-plugged the imobiliser box or not???...

11th November 2007, 23:44

If it was unlocked, then you plugged it into a system which has an immobiliser box, it will code into that immob box. It should start with the corresponding key.

12th November 2007, 01:20

no wouldnt start with the box un plugged, Ecu is currently getting unlocked

12th November 2007, 11:32

gab - it just locks the ecu if you try to do that.

12th November 2007, 12:47

so that box in the pic is definitely the right 1?? dont wanna lock my ecu agen

12th November 2007, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by streetspecials

so that box in the pic is definitely the right 1?? dont wanna lock my ecu agen

yes its definatly the immobilisor box make sure is disconnected before puting the ECU back on

12th November 2007, 15:15

thanks bud. Will let you know what happens when i get the ecu back

12th November 2007, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

gab - it just locks the ecu if you try to do that.

Odd, I unlocked my mates ECU to use on my car, and forgot to take out the immob box. When I put it in, it wouldnt start without my key after that.

17th November 2007, 10:53

finally i got my ecu back this morning....... plugeed it in and turned ignition on and....... Engine management light is on and wont fire?????

All sensors are plugged up correctly, injection relay is clicking when you turn the igniton on...

What can be wrong?????

anyone, this is doing my head in now, its been off the road over 2 month now

17th November 2007, 17:02

anyone??

17th November 2007, 17:19

wasthe immobilisor disconnectedbefoer you plugged it in?

18th November 2007, 01:46

yeah immobiliser was un plugged??

19th November 2007, 21:43

whats the update on this then mate?

22nd November 2007, 12:28

car still aint going

i really dont have a clue what is wrong

Just turn ignition on and engine management light is on and it wont fire up?

few things though-

the crankshaft sensor on my engine is 3 pin and on my new loom it only has a 2 pin plug?? an auto electrition said it only need 2 of the 3 wires though??

and sensor on back left side of inlet manifold (map sensor? i think) has a different plug on the loom to what is on my engine??

Is there only 1 ecu for the single plug looms??

anyone help?

23rd November 2007, 12:00

sorted out the sensors now, still nothing??

23rd November 2007, 13:41

just to clarify it all

1) what car is the engine out of and what year is it
2) whgat car is your engine loom off and what year and did you get the ecu separatly to this or not
3) what car loom is it ur using?

23rd November 2007, 17:30

the engine is out of a mk1 106 i had that had the conversion, which the engine was in a 97 106 gti before.

i have a single plug ecu loom from a vts

rest of the car loom is the 1.4 loom or could be vtr? not sure

The ecu is what came with the engine, it has been unlocked and the immobiliser box is unplugged.

all the sensors are wired up spot on now, i have by-passed the fuel cut off switch just to make sure its right.

fuel injection relay is clicking on fine. Engine management light is on and there is no spark???

power is gettin to the coil pack on 1 of the pins which is the ignition live.

'Bluehawk' electics told me the ecu was fine????

what else could it posibly be?

is there 2 types of single plug looms??
2 types of single plug ecu's??

my ecu is a Magneti Marelli IAW 1AP.41

anyone please help this is really doing my heasd in now.

Thanks

24th November 2007, 00:08

i would say that it is the crank sensor try to find which one is for the ecu you have got and have you tried using the gti loom that the engine was running with originally before you took it out

24th November 2007, 13:50

the gti dont fit mate, you need the vts loom

crank sensor is fine now but still nothing

25th November 2007, 20:39

anyone????????????

26th November 2007, 12:33

why doesnt the gti loom work? use that and splice it to your 1.4 loom or get a vts car loom and vts engine loom and the 2 will just plug together no problems, when i di dmine i used a vts car loom and i never had anyproblems just plug and play.

26th November 2007, 12:34

Have you got the right type of coil pack? Yours should have a black connector on it, not a light grey one.

26th November 2007, 13:17

yes mate coil pack has black connector.

Will i need the vts car loom for it to work???

surely all i need is the correct ignition lives and earth to the ecu and injection relay??

26th November 2007, 22:29

As long as you have a 106 Gti or VTS engine loom, itll work fine - as you say you just need to suss the feeds for the gauges etc, and the +ve from the multiplug.

Ive redone a 106 GTi engine loom to work with a 1.4VSX car loom, so you dont need the full car loom.

If you cant get another unlocked ECU to try, and everything is connected fine with no obvious probs, there must be a wiring fault.

26th November 2007, 23:37

ITS SORTED!!! kind of..

car starts and runs but idles at 2.5/3000 rpm? tried a new idle stabilisation valve but no luck??

27th November 2007, 11:20

what was the problem then?

27th November 2007, 12:43

sound a gd idea tell me if it works

27th November 2007, 16:26

a coil pack wire was shortin in the loom and ecu had almost every fault code you could imagine so sorted wire and cleared all codes and it fired up.

just need to sort the idleing problem now, anyone have any ideas???