Throttle Body Setups - Trumpets

  1. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #1
    After much more reading into TB Setups and that, Ive realised that even down
    to the trumpets you use makes a bit of difference!
    The ideal spec Ive always been looking at is roughly as follows:

    Quote:
    supersprint 421
    pugsport
    ITBs - no sure of characteristics yet
    most likely omex management
    piper 285s or catcams 708s
    gas flowed head/port polish
    forged pistons
    l+b flywheel
    Its not a really ambitious setup as thats not what Im after, but with regards
    to that sort of spec, what kind of trumpets would I be looking for?
    Seems theres different length and radius ones, what benifits do that have in
    general and also for my own spec.
  2. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #2
    If it was me i would

    supersprint 421 - change to the GMC 4-1 the new one which is 2 1/4 bore
    pugsport - Am sure these where only good to 150, so again i would go for BTB
    ITBs - no sure of characteristics yet- Check Ryans and JP's mate i think they are the bestmost likely omex management
    piper 285s or catcams 708s defo 708's or even the newmans PH3's
    gas flowed head/port polish, go for a big valve head maybeforged pistons defo
    l+b flywheel defo
  3. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #3
    Cant really justify the BTBs mate. Seen a lot of setups now running 2inch
    bore systems and pushing out 165bhp+. Doubt I will be running a huge spec.
    Just want a nice simple setup that will keep me happy.
    Wouldnt mind a big valve head but that means more monies

    Hoping Ryan and Josh will put some input in when they have time. Im going to
    have a chat with my Pug guys on Tuesday you see about the setup. See how
    much of my hard earned they are wanting.
    Might have to do it in 2 stages but thats not an issue. Monies still a bit tight
    like but just want to know what Im looking at.
  4. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #4
    With regard to the actually TBs, I read a very interesting thread on SSC yesterday. I believe the chap with a fair bit of knowledge is called 106rich or something close to that? Anyway, he was talking about a 45mm TBs, tapering them to 42mm which would allow the use of a longer airhorn. I'm not exactly sure how this works in practice, but it was interesting nonetheless...
  5. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #5
    Sounds a bit extreme lol!

    I was looking at the 42mm but tbh I dont really know whats out there and also
    what the different types are like. Will keep reading up.
  6. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #6
    if your using forged pistons why not go for a wilder cam?
    my mate is using 110mm length trumpets on his corsa, the longer inlet tract helps make more torque.
  7. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #7
    simple rule of thumb, for torque in the mid range, go for long trumpets, for top end power run them short.

    pulse tuning seems to be very important with the saxo engine so cut the bulkhead to run longer trumpets and give them space...
  8. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5
    #8
    i'm looking into bodies, but at bike ones.

    i know people don't seem to keen on them, but it's to a budget and i'd love bodies.

    also, the GSXR1000 has tapered bodies, 42mm on the head side and 44mm on the filter side, and i believe its for the use of bigger/better trumpets.
  9. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5
    #9
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KamRacing View Post
    simple rule of thumb, for torque in the mid range, go for long trumpets, for top end power run them short.

    pulse tuning seems to be very important with the saxo engine so cut the bulkhead to run longer trumpets and give them space...
    instead of cutting the bulkhead, could you not lengthen them by curving them?

    have seen some thing like this on gmc's website iirc.
  10. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #10
    Problem I have then Williams is then I will need to look into larger bore exhausts
    and Im sure you need to uprate other bits and bobs to run wilder cams.
    Its not stupid power Im after as tbh. Just a good setup for fair money.

    Longer trumpets sounds interesting, but does your power/torque higher up
    the rev range suffer? Is there a fair compromise.
  11. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #11
    the thing is though, you going to spend a few thousand for 170hpis at the most. is it really worth it? i would think about boosting it.
  12. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5
    #12
    sorry for the jack, but while on this topic, what sort of cams could be run with bodies?

    i'm considering newman ph4's, could i run them with tb's and standalone ok?
  13. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williamsvts View Post
    the thing is though, you going to spend a few thousand for 170hpis at the most. is it really worth it? i would think about boosting it.
    Im a fan of NA over Turbo'ing. And being honest if I went for a Turbo I would
    go the whole hog and make sure its reliable - which is my main concern.

    I want a reliable setup. Dont mind paying 3k+ for 170bhp on TBs. Being honest
    on the track to get the full potential out of the 120bhp is more difficult than
    you think. So trying to use the full 170bhp and the wider power band to its
    max potential on track will take time and experience.
  14. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #14
    Williams has a fair point, but so do you Rush. Your decision at the end of the day...

    My next step will be keeping the 708s in for now. If I feel like I want to spend the extra couple of grand to run high lift / duraiton cams, then I'll cross that bridge when I come to it so to speak. But you have to draw the line somewhere don't you?

    I'm still edging towards the KMS setup, which includes their own DTH bodies and ECU. Unless someone can prove to me that there's a better / cheaper option that is...
  15. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeeves_101 View Post
    instead of cutting the bulkhead, could you not lengthen them by curving them?

    have seen some thing like this on gmc's website iirc.
    no they will restrict the engines performance. Induction angle is very important in getting the best state of tune. Extra bends screw up the pulse tuning and i dont think GMC got great results compared to a more traditional setup. To be honest its so easy to cut a box section out the scuttle panel that i wouldnt consider any other route..
  16. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #16
    throttle bodies may not have the ultimate power but they make up for that with instant throttle responce - And quite frankly a sound that makes you grin like your insane. My girlfriend used to be scared of the noise of my 205 lol
  17. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #17
    Kam, can the increased length actually lose you power towards the top end where you might actually want the power? Or are there only benifits by increasing the overall length?
  18. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #18
    i wouldnt go with bike bodies tbh

    never seem to make good power
  19. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    Kam, can the increased length actually lose you power towards the top end where you might actually want the power? Or are there only benifits by increasing the overall length?
    its a bit hard to generalise these as when building individual engines they react differently to fine tuning. As a rule of thumb longer trumpets will move the peak power down the rev range, whereas shorter will move it up.
    For a road engine ou want a big spread of torque across the whole rev range rather than creating a peaky engine that needs to be thrashed to get any performance.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leeroybrown View Post
    i wouldnt go with bike bodies tbh

    never seem to make good power
    I havent seen any make good power compared to a kit made for the car. Usually because there are so many compromises in the inlet manifold design.
  20. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5
    #20
    will you see any gains if using bike bodies?
  21. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #21
    Seems you get what you pay for then. Cheaper bike bodies dont perform
    as well as specific application ones.

    I think its safe to say that a typical trumpet length would be fine for my
    needs? Dont want trumpets too long but again not too short.
    What about the diameter of the bodies. I imagine thats a big factor? Problem
    I see is that a bigger diameter may reduce the pace air is taken in?
  22. Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Salisbury Posts: 1118 Saxo VTR full Janspeed exhuast (4-2
    #22
    Rush get some catcam808's more hardcore then raise the compression ratio and your well on your way to 180 bhp....
  23. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5
    #23
    or newman PH4's, they have 280 duration!!
  24. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #24
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fredjudd View Post
    Rush get some catcam808's more hardcore then raise the compression ratio and your well on your way to 180 bhp....
    Would love to mate but I really need to bring this project to a close at some
    point in my life lol! I can live with 170bhp on 265 profiles.
  25. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5
    #25
    just to let anyone in this thread, and you rushy, i'm in contact with newmans for getting some discount.
  26. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #26
    How good are the Newman cams though? Whats the step down from the PH4s?
    What profile are they?
  27. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2007 Weston-S-Mare Posts: 3713 Racing Bronze Mazda MX-5
    #27
    ph3's is the one down, same spec as the 708's.

    http://www.newman-cams.com

    think ph4's are similar to 808's or 809's.
  28. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #28
    Again, can't go any wilder than the 708s Rush mate. Unless (as you already stated) you want to fork out a lot more money for other upgrades.

    Cheers kam. I understand what you are saying. At the moment, I don't get any big power until I'm knocking on 5000 rpm. If the KMS setup doesn't sway from this too much, it won't bother me. If I want to drive fast, I won't be driving below 5000 rpm anyway...
  29. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR
    #29
    the kms dth bodies are very good and their quality is very good.i fitted a set of kms itb's today and they are very well designed,

    rush if you get the kms dth bodies youll have more room to run longer inlet tracts.i would say 40's would be sufficient and give a good torque spread but 45's are making some decent power lately.
  30. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #30
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dannygti View Post
    the kms dth bodies are very good and their quality is very good.i fitted a set of kms itb's today and they are very well designed,

    rush if you get the kms dth bodies youll have more room to run longer inlet tracts.i would say 40's would be sufficient and give a good torque spread but 45's are making some decent power lately.
    Thats the thing though, do I want a longer inlet? Will have a word tomororw with
    "my people" See what they say...
  31. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #31
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leeroybrown View Post
    ITBs - no sure of characteristics yet- Check Ryans and JP's mate i think they are the best
    Maybe, but the problem is that gmc arent making anymore of these sets....

    If i had to choose now i'd go for the kms dth tappered boddies with the kms deal and save that little bit extra
  32. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #32
    Not a fan of jenveys?
  33. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #33
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KamRacing View Post
    no they will restrict the engines performance. Induction angle is very important in getting the best state of tune. Extra bends screw up the pulse tuning and i dont think GMC got great results compared to a more traditional setup. To be honest its so easy to cut a box section out the scuttle panel that i wouldnt consider any other route..
    Although i see where your coming from Kam i have to disagree, mine made 140@wheels (see sig for spec) on an engine that had only covered 200miles since a complete rebuild.

    Dont forget cutting the scuttle SHOULD be an MOT failure, which is no good for these road cars....
  34. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    Not a fan of jenveys?
    Depends how you look at it, jenvey's would have a wider market to sell onto if you considered selling up....
  35. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux
    #35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeeves_101 View Post
    or newman PH4's, they have 280 duration!!
    but to run the extra duration will set you back another £1500 for pistons, headwork and solids etc
  36. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #36
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jpsaxo View Post
    Although i see where your coming from Kam i have to disagree, mine made 140@wheels (see sig for spec) on an engine that had only covered 200miles since a complete rebuild.

    Dont forget cutting the scuttle SHOULD be an MOT failure, which is no good for these road cars....
    yes but i've seen nearly as good a power from a 106 gti engine with less mods than yours but with optimal induction length. Was fitted to a 205 though so had better clearance
  37. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #37
    In theory the piston rings, cams etc should have been worn in nicely and give me a few more bhp, I should get an RR done sooner or later

    It definately feels slightly more powerful now than when it was mapped, or maybe i've just got used to 16v power Lol

    iirc Rich106 when he got his mapped was 140ish @ wheels before the engine had been run in, with almost the same spec (him having BV head, but no high comps. Same cams, him having straight induction me curved)
  38. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #38
    Bit off topic but I guess it is my thread, are there any TU 1.6 16v TB'ed RR Graphs
    available? Did you find yours Josh?
  39. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #39
    Yeah, I'd like to see the torque curve and how it compares to other trumpet lengths, and also how it compares to standard inlet.

    Matt from QEP told me that the setup he would be selling me came with 60mm air horns, as they were the longest you could use while still keeping enough room for an airbox. Trouble is, I don't know if this is a decent length or not. How am I supposed to know... Arg, this matter is pissing me off to be honest.
  40. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #40
    Its at home somewhere, i'm going to get another RR done in the next few months anyway

    I havent actualy seen it since i got it mapped @ gmc so memory is a bit rough, iirc the torque was good from 3.5k - 7k ish, peak power was 7kish.

    Go onto ssc and PM 106rich he has a nice graph for tbs and 708's on straight induction tbs
  41. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #41
    Just had a word with "my people"

    They really prefer Omex with Jenveys. They have used KMS in the past and werent
    impressed at all. Without "touching wood" they said that Omex/Jenveys are
    an excellent choice.
    Trumpet length they said they probably wouldnt cut the bulk head, just used
    slightly shorter trumpets and have them enclosed with a filter at the front
    of the bay. Most likely a square panel filter to suck shite loads of air in.

    Also they feel that catcam 708s is a good choice, they advised to fit a new
    manifold which I was going to, and finally they mentioned that only minimal
    headwork would be needed with this setup as they heads on the 106 are fairly
    good. But they will still look into skimming it or whatever they do.

    Rough price, 3.5k....
  42. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #42
    Rush, can you do this then? I'm not a member of SSC.

    JP, max power with yours sounds to come at roughly the same as mine, around 7200 to be more exact. I think the biggest difference is the torque. At 3500, my torque is a fair bit lower than 5500 where it's around its max.
  43. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #43
    Quote:
    Rush, can you do this then?
    Bah? Not with you mate lol
  44. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #44
    Eh? I'm lost now! I was asking if you could do as JP suggested, and contact that chap off of SSC.
  45. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #45
    OOOO! Nah Im not a member either. Will try and get the details from that SSC
    lad though buddy.
  46. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #46
    Oh, whoops. I thought you were mate, sorry!
  47. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #47
    The KMS inlet manifold is superior to the jenvey design - out the factory it needs a little machining to improve things, but the uk distributor does that..
    As for ecu's. I still think DTA is one of the best but its good to match your ecu to who you are getting to tune it..
  48. L-plater Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 56
    #48
    Jay i know were it is ,its in all that paper work in bottom draw ok
  49. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #49
    Ever thought of a emerald ECU Rushy?
  50. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #50
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leeroybrown View Post
    Ever thought of a emerald ECU Rushy?
    Mate tbh I dont have a clue about any of em.

    I just want to make sure which ever one I do use the tuners know how to map
    properly. As long as it does its job well I will be more than happy.
    If I go to my local guys and they do a good job (which I know they will) I willl
    be more than happy. Check some of their own cars out:

    http://www.des-developments.com/conv...s/gallery.html
  51. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #51
    Just a suggestion bud

    A close mate of mine had his throttled bodied saxo running on an emerald ecu and map by the legend that is Dave Walker.

    I was well impressed i sat in whilst he mapped it.
  52. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #52
    Nah not putting your suggestion down at all. Just dont really know the difference.

    Some of their cars are monsters. They do all sorts of rallies and track days. So
    know their stuff like.
  53. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #53
    Worth a bash bud am just thinking out the box as emerald seem to be over shadowed by OMEX and KMS, when the emerald in my opinion is the better one
  54. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #54
    Leeroy, if you really want to get a sale for this chap / company, can you help enquire about some prices on my and Rush's behalf? We're in similar boats, whereas Rush requires cams too, but it's no biggy. I need a company that will be happy to do ALL the work. That includes the installation of ALL the equipment, ECU, loom, and mapping...
  55. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #55
    Unsure to if they would fit cams, bodies etc!
  56. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #56
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leeroybrown View Post
    Worth a bash bud am just thinking out the box as emerald seem to be over shadowed by OMEX and KMS, when the emerald in my opinion is the better one
    But what makes you say that mate? (just a general question)
    Each car and setup will be totally different, even if the same parts are used imo.
    Surely you cant base one ECU being better than another buy comparing too different cars?

    Plus it depends how well the map is too? Dont quote me here, its all just from
    what I have researched so far?
  57. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #57
    You can get any better then Dave Walker tbh
  58. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #58
    Can or cant?!

    I will find out the inlet length on the Jenveys my doodes use.
  59. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #59
    for mapping i dont think u can
  60. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #60
    OK, let's break this down in stages for the "not so hot at DIY" folk like myself...

    1) Installation of bodies / inlet, linkages, fuel rail
    2) Installation of ECU, including loom and new sensors, such as TPS and the like
    3) Mapping

    So that's what's required. What's the best why to achieve all of the above?
  61. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #61
    To me i would get someone who knows what they are doing to install the bodies cam, ecu etc

    The take it to me preferred Mapper to do the mapping

    All depends on money and how far you want to travel
  62. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #62
    Well, I'm thinking of going all the bloody way to Scotland! But do I really need to?
  63. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #63
    Must be somewhere closer Toad?
  64. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #64
    I'm Sure, but I don't have any proof of where is a good place to go. THe reason I'm thinking GMC is because they are familiar with the KMS setup. And I was thinking of getting that. Kam is looking into a price for me... *cough* hint Kam...
  65. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #65
    QEP?
  66. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #66
    i stilll need help tooo guys lol
  67. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #67


    thats a picture of our set up on the corsa 1600

    running jenvey bodies with 90mm trumpets and omex 600 management.

    the car also has forged pistons and conrods, some custom newmans cams and a host of other goodies that we desgined for it after we mapped it the other day its now pushing 203bhp

    we are more than capable of performing any throttle bodie conversion on any car this is our bread and butter, if anyone wants any more info feel free to ring us or even pop in to vsport for a look at our work, and potential customers with money to spend would be welcome to a passenger ride to see how well the car performs.
  68. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #68
    personally if i was starting from scratch i would buy the kms DTH set up as they are supposed to be a direct copy of the dth set up by pugsport but at a fraction of the cost.

    If you are spending big ££ on a rebuild i would also go the full hog and particularily if running forged pistons fork out the extra ££££ for solid lifters and a lot wilder cam set up.

    Personally id get QEP to build the engine itself as im a fan of their work and a mate has a 183.3bhp set up by them that just seems mental!

    Ecu for the money if you get the kms with the dth its cheaper although im unsure on the kms as a few people seem to have had problems with the wideband irc, but thats not a deffinate you need to ask other users.

    Although im a fan of the emerald ecus, espec as if you buy the dave walker does slightly cheaper mapping sessions irc.

    i also would keep a 4-2-1 configuration manifold myself.
    cant be fucked to read it all hence my posts.
  69. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #69
    Steve Hill motorsport is nearer to you Toad- theres loads of places in Bucks and Oxon as its the motorsport hotspot in the country...
  70. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2007 Bangor Posts: 818 Furio, 300+BHP EP82, zx6RR Ninja
    #70
    the corsa bay looks well! 203 is impresive!
  71. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #71
    Rushy when i had the setup you were looking at i was very happy with the results that i had!! Nd with regards to trumpet length im still happy with short trumpets on 809's
  72. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #72
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    personally if i was starting from scratch i would buy the kms DTH set up as they are supposed to be a direct copy of the dth set up by pugsport but at a fraction of the cost.

    If you are spending big ££ on a rebuild i would also go the full hog and particularily if running forged pistons fork out the extra ££££ for solid lifters and a lot wilder cam set up.

    Personally id get QEP to build the engine itself as im a fan of their work and a mate has a 183.3bhp set up by them that just seems mental!

    Ecu for the money if you get the kms with the dth its cheaper although im unsure on the kms as a few people seem to have had problems with the wideband irc, but thats not a deffinate you need to ask other users.

    Although im a fan of the emerald ecus, espec as if you buy the dave walker does slightly cheaper mapping sessions irc.

    i also would keep a 4-2-1 configuration manifold myself.
    cant be fucked to read it all hence my posts.
    Thing is though Ryan you mention further internals and more crazy cams, theres
    no end to how far you can take it! And as we all know the more BHP the more
    the cost rises. Im at the point now where I dont want mental power, like 180+
    bhp. Im just after a good setup. My budget is £3.5k, possbily more. But rather
    not at this moment in time.

    I doubt I will even bother with the forged pistons at this stage too. Just go for
    a nice simple setup. Then keep it running sweet. Once the engines getting tired
    then possibly go for a rebuild with all new improved internals: when Im rich
    and bald that is like my mate Bic
  73. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #73
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vtr130 View Post
    Rushy when i had the setup you were looking at i was very happy with the results that i had!! Nd with regards to trumpet length im still happy with short trumpets on 809's
    What do you think of the difference with this setup against your old one matey?
  74. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aspsaxo View Post
    Jay i know were it is ,its in all that paper work in bottom draw ok
    Cheers Dad,

    I agree with Ryan and Kam, if i were to do it now i'd go for the kms dth boddies simply because mine and ryans are no longer available, and go with whatever ecu your mapper is happy with using - i'd personally go with gmc as i was more than happy with there work and the drive back was worth the drive up there - if you get my drift Lol
  75. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #75
    LOL you nutter! Enjoy the drive did we?

    Would be good to see how mine ends up if I do go for the Jenveys and Omex.
    Be good to compare once its done. Josh are you running forged pistson? I know
    it says high comp pistons on your sig, is that the same thing lol?
  76. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    LOL you nutter! Enjoy the drive did we?

    Would be good to see how mine ends up if I do go for the Jenveys and Omex.
    Be good to compare once its done. Josh are you running forged pistson? I know
    it says high comp pistons on your sig, is that the same thing lol?
    yes Rush...lol
  77. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #77
    josh how long did it take you to get up to gmc?

    they seem like the only place that can do everything i want doing
  78. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #78
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samcook View Post
    josh how long did it take you to get up to gmc?

    they seem like the only place that can do everything i want doing
    Few hours, its not too bad if you go @ silly times like i did.

    Drove up Monday night after work, slept in my car, got there for 9ish Tues morning
  79. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KamRacing View Post
    Steve Hill motorsport is nearer to you Toad- theres loads of places in Bucks and Oxon as its the motorsport hotspot in the country...
    Yes, I'm over there quite a lot. Tom just did new bearings for my rear axle for me. I haven't asked them about the TBs, but I don't think they get involved with the ECU / loom side of things. They certianly don't do any mapping, as they haven't got any rollers. Perhaps they could help install the kit for me, but that still leaves me shy of getting the ECU and all the frighting loom done! Eeeek.
  80. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #80
    Dan-t - I just googled your postcode. You're a fair way away from me, I'm near London mate...
  81. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #81
    Ryan - I agree completely with what you are saying. I've been poking my nose in on SSC, and keeping an eye on this LONG thread about issues with the KMS wideband. Looks like it's pretty much sorted now, and it was a firmware issue after all. That's good!
  82. Established Member Joined: Jun 2007 k-in-a, notts Posts: 1858 bmw 330ci sport !
    #82
    if i was intrested in buying any throttle bodies for my vts any one know any sites and prices ?
  83. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #83
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lil-daz-vts View Post
    if i was intrested in buying any throttle bodies for my vts any one know any sites and prices ?
    QEP, GMC, jenvey, pug sport, take your pick
  84. Established Member Joined: Jun 2007 k-in-a, notts Posts: 1858 bmw 330ci sport !
    #84
    what would you say is the best and dont need to cut bulk head for
  85. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #85
    i would suggest you read the thread first then come back with any questions you have, plenty of people have made recommendations....
  86. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    Ryan - I agree completely with what you are saying. I've been poking my nose in on SSC, and keeping an eye on this LONG thread about issues with the KMS wideband. Looks like it's pretty much sorted now, and it was a firmware issue after all. That's good!
    its made me sway back towards kms knowing now that the problems have been pretty much sorted, only problem is going all the way to gmc lol!
  87. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #87
    All im going to say is GMC aren't the be all and end all of TU engine tuning. Obviously
    they know their stuff. But there are others out there who are equally as skilled
    and equally as able.
  88. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #88
    I'm sure there are...
  89. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #89
    You only really need to find a specific engine specialist when it comes to race engines in my opinion. Most of you are buying off the shelf parts with plenty of information about how they are fitted and the full spec of the item itself. There really is no need to travel 600miles to a tuner when there are places local who can do the work just as good - especially as you are not that far from oxford (if you really want a race tuner)
  90. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #90
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    I'm sure there are...
    My work will be better than yours Mr Stage 4 Head!
  91. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    My work will be better than yours Mr Stage 4 Head!
    fighting talk lol!
  92. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #92
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    All im going to say is GMC aren't the be all and end all of TU engine tuning. Obviously
    they know their stuff. But there are others out there who are equally as skilled
    and equally as able.
    know what your saying mate but want somewhere with a reputation!

    you had work done by des developments before then rush?

    i was speaking to them a few weeks ago about fitting my cams ect.
  93. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #93
    Quote:
    All im going to say is GMC aren't the be all and end all of TU engine tuning. Obviously
    they know their stuff. But there are others out there who are equally as skilled
    and equally as able.

    Your getting rep for that mate
  94. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #94
    Get out of the wrong side of bed this morning Rush?

    What's with all the competition all of a sudden? It won't matter how well your engine turns out, as you're still running mitnangakamkazi rubber. I could corner better in a Relient Robin...
  95. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #95
    Actually laughing out loud at the moment Toad!

    Nah I was just stating that GMC aren't the only ones who know what they are doing.
    Not pointing the finger or having a go at anyone. Just a personal opinion. Im cool
    man not annoyed or pissed off blah blah. BTW my mitnangakamkazi rubber
    rule.

    Confused now, what competition? Just cause you whooped my ass on Forza.
  96. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #96
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samcook View Post
    know what your saying mate but want somewhere with a reputation!

    you had work done by des developments before then rush?

    i was speaking to them a few weeks ago about fitting my cams ect.
    Had all my work done from them! Cant fault them and they are so knowledgeable.
    Its a shame cause there current unit holds them back, but I think they are looking
    to improve things in the future.

    Servicing, my brakes, suspenion, bushes, exhaust issues. They sorted the lot out
    where others didnt have a clue. They do hurt your wallet, but they are the
    bee knees! Thats why Im confident they can get my engine the way I want
    it without saying add this and that spend this and that.
  97. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #97
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    Had all my work done from them! Cant fault them and they are so knowledgeable.
    Its a shame cause there current unit holds them back, but I think they are looking
    to improve things in the future.

    Servicing, my brakes, suspenion, bushes, exhaust issues. They sorted the lot out
    where others didnt have a clue. They do hurt your wallet, but they are the
    bee knees! Thats why Im confident they can get my engine the way I want
    it without saying add this and that spend this and that.
    what standalone do they favour using? they given you a price for anything of that side of things yet?
  98. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #98
    Hehe, I thought you were having a dig with the "stage 4..." comment.

    Peace.

    Those DD chaps have done some pretty impressive stuff with 205s. I checked out their web site a few months ago.
  99. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #99
    Standalone - Omex. Individually no, but for the full spec I wanted from them for
    the TB's looking at £3.5k or maybe just less.

    Pug1off wanted nearly 4k, and tbh I dont know how good their work is on a personal
    level.

    Im am regularly in touch with Dan and Neil from DD, some of the cars in there
    are just damn scary. 200bhp 205s weighing 700kgs.
  100. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #100
    LOL nah no worries Toad. The stage 4 head comment was just a joke!

    End of the day I want us all to get the best level of work done. I just dont think
    its worth traveling 5949832439024miles to where ever the hell they are
    in Scoooootyland when there are able people elsewhere. Pug1off isnt that far
    from you mate. I would get in touch with them and check em out. No harm!
  101. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #101
    We still haven't had a definate answer on this whole ECU / loom issue. QEP were telling me that us 106 owners would lose the oil temp and coolant temp. This is still a worry!
  102. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #102
    I can ask DD for you mate, see what they say.
  103. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #103
    Yeah, that's a good idea. We need as much info as possible before we make any mistakes. I want this to go a smooth as possible.
  104. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #104
    Agreed mate. Would be interesting though once all the setups are compared.

    You TB'ed mofos need to get your fingers out your buts and slap some rolling
    road graphs up!
  105. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #105
    They're hiding something...
  106. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #106
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    We still haven't had a definate answer on this whole ECU / loom issue. QEP were telling me that us 106 owners would lose the oil temp and coolant temp. This is still a worry!
    that the same on saxos?
  107. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #107
    Yes, but I'm only speaking for MKII versions...
  108. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #108
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    Yes, but I'm only speaking for MKII versions...

    the gay old 3 plug lol
  109. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    What do you think of the difference with this setup against your old one matey?
    Well me old set-up was pretty much the same buddy... I opted for the 708's, jenvey 40mm sf's and and an omex 600 ecu... The car pulled like a monster and ran a 14.0 1.4 on a few occasions! SO id recommend it to anyone! Great fun, now i have the bug and have got a little more serious!
  110. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #110
    I might have my rolling road graph i will look around my room at uni later!
  111. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #111
    What is it with Uni people and bodies? All my mates at uni are broke!
  112. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #112
    I had them b4 i went to uni
  113. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #113
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    What is it with Uni people and bodies? All my mates at uni are broke!
    i dont piss my student loan up the wall.

    and work hard for money
  114. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    i dont piss my student loan up the wall.

    and work hard for money
    Second tht!!
  115. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vtr130 View Post
    Second tht!!
    newsflash, im gonna pull my finger out and spend my hard earned on getting mine ready!

    gonna bite the bullet lol!
  116. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    newsflash, im gonna pull my finger out and spend my hard earned on getting mine ready!

    gonna bite the bullet lol!
    Cough bout time cough!

    Trust me I work my ass off for the £££. And loan just helps me along at the same
    time. Any news on these graphs??
  117. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #117
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    Cough bout time cough!
    engines been in months, just decided i cant keep waiting for mates to help with the welding thats needed.

    so gonna drop it off to a garage and buy some lube
  118. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #118
    Sweet Ry, get it sorted!!!
  119. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #119
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jpsaxo View Post
    Sweet Ry, get it sorted!!!
    watch this space...

    just need to get battery to run engine and check that its not fucked now. then get the welding done so i can put it back together
  120. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #120
    Or just give me the engine?
  121. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #121
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    Or just give me the engine?
    if you give me 2k
  122. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    if you give me 2k
    Really?! Hmm.

    What spec is it? Like the full spec? Age, cond, miles covered etc etc. Not that
    im interested...
  123. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    Really?! Hmm.

    What spec is it? Like the full spec? Age, cond, miles covered etc etc. Not that
    im interested...
    omex, same tbs joshs, baffled sump, pugsport cup cams....

    seemed to work perfectly before i bought it, not used it in anger. no idea on milage but wont be alot as its not from a road car as such.
  124. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #124
    I'll just give you the money for the bodies and ECU...
  125. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #125
    bargain, worth 2k for just the boddies and ecu!!
  126. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #126
    we charge £2500 for the full jenvey itb set up and omex 600 ecu all fitted,set up and mapped
  127. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #127
    Very good price tbh dan!!
  128. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #128
    U map omexs then dan?? Becoz mine will need a full map soon!!
  129. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2006 Ashford Posts: 25611 LY R26
    #129
    Wait so for £2,500 youll fit my car with standalone management and TBs?
  130. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #130
    yes we map all models of omex our corsa runs the 600 which we have hundreds of hours mapping on this is what we specialise in althought we do map all other standalone management.
  131. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2006 Ashford Posts: 25611 LY R26
    #131
    So for 2,500 my car will be Throttle bodied with standalone management all fitted, ready to drive?
  132. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS
    #132
    I think Soulless is interested..
  133. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #133
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Soulless View Post
    Wait so for £2,500 youll fit my car with standalone management and TBs?
    correct using the omex 600 software and jenvey throttle bodies.

    obviously to see the best gains from them its advisable to go for some bigger cams double valve springs, some nice head work etc and if your budget allows some forged pistons and steel bottom end then you could run a nice 8000rpm + rev limit safely.
  134. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2006 Ashford Posts: 25611 LY R26
    #134
    if I supplied a pair of Cat Cam 708s and a cambelt kit, could you fit these and map a standard 3 plug ECU?

    also how much to fit this and fit standalone management?
  135. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #135
    souless go for the full whack m8
  136. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS
    #136
    Yeah Karl you ghey..
  137. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #137
    pm sent with all information.

    looking at our new prices we may be able to do the set up fullly fitted and mapped for as little as £2300 depending on how generous jenvey are feeling this week lol
  138. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #138
    What about KMS's DTH bodies instead of the Jens Dan?
  139. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #139
    we use the jenveys as they are easy to set up and service (hence the good price we do them for) and replacement parts are available easily plus jenvey make the throttle bodies for 98% of the touring cars.

    is there a particular reason why youd like kms's?
  140. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #140
    I'm under the impression that as they are DTH setup, they help with regard to the inlet tract length / design for the already crammed 106 engine bay. I also believe they are a replica of the Peugeot Sport bodies, and people have had very good resutls from them.
  141. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #141
    they are a copy of the pugsport items, so do the job very well, allow a decent induction length as they are direct to head, have a good angle manifold etc
  142. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #142
    we have the same problem with the corsa's engine bay and the jenveys werent a problem, we have removed the scuttle panel only to allow us to use 90mm long trumpets which help allot with improved power and torque.

    jenvey have designed a set up for the 16v engine in the saxo/106 that works very well and maximises performance gains whilst utilising the little space that there is as this is also a direct to head fit. (jenvey do know what they are on about as im sure your aware)

    if you were hell bent on wanting the dth set up we could look into this for you but we couldnt do it for the price we do the jenveys for this is because we have such a good relation with jenvey as we use them for all out tb set ups and have only sent people away with a smile on their face lol
  143. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #143
    Obviously the key question here is... Will it make a noticeable difference going for either setup? Hmm...
  144. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #144
    Dan, have you ever setup any 106 / VTSs with iTBs?
  145. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #145
    tbh i really dont think it would lol that bit of extra cash in your pocket could go a long way im sure. the throttle bodies all work on the same principle, most of the time it comes down to how well the car has been mapped after they have been fitted we have tried a whole host of different set ups on our corsa and only seen 4-5bhp difference between different inlet lengths and inlet angles to the head etc, you can get that 5bhp back just buy spending another hour on the dyno mapping it.
  146. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #146
    myself i have not done the tb set up on that specific car but have on many other cars. but dave who also works here has, although they are just a 1600cc 16v engine tho no different to working on any other engine at the end of the day.
  147. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2006 Ashford Posts: 25611 LY R26
    #147
    id like to go the full whack, but dont have 2,5k.
  148. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #148
    £2300

    i dont think anyone would say that isnt a very reasonable price especially fully mapped on a rolling road.
  149. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #149
    It is a very reasonable price, i paid that for my tb's, ecu wideband and display, let alone the mapping...

    But my mapper has just built a 320@wheels s/c saxo Lol.

    Not doubting your ability, sounds like a very good price, very worth while getting in contact and talking things over Sam, Toad rush etc
  150. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #150
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dan-t View Post
    myself i have not done the tb set up on that specific car but have on many other cars. but dave who also works here has, although they are just a 1600cc 16v engine tho no different to working on any other engine at the end of the day.

    The reason I ask Dan, is because there's this word going around that when fitting a standalone ECU to a MKII 106 / VTS, you lose the use of the oil temp and coolant temp. QEP have been plugging the KMS wideband, because of this, saying you can use the display to view the oil and coolant temp that you would otherwise lose...
  151. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #151
    The omex 600 is about the most advanced ecu system for the money, it has features such as launch control, datalogging, wideband control, knock sensor to control ign advance, idle control etc... it can control pretty much any auxilliary gauges for oil temp, pressure, fuel pressure, water temp, vaccum/boost......
  152. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #152
    exactly the same thing and more you can get with a emerald
  153. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #153
    The omex 600 is the dogs bollock!!!!
  154. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #154
    one for you rush mate!
    des developments have gave me a price of £380 inclusive of vat to fit a new head gasket, skim the head, re grind the valves fit new stem seals replace the cambelt/tensioners and time up the 708s! and there getting back to me on a price for the omex fitted and mapped
  155. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #155
    now thats what i call a baragin
  156. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #156
    yes we already know this why do you think im plugging it so much lol we dont deal with shit products. we have it on the vsport corsa and have barely scraped the surface of its capabilities
  157. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #157
    snap their hands off for that sort of money lol thats a silly price
  158. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #158
    Quote:
    yes we already know this why do you think im plugging it so much lol we dont deal with shit products. we have it on the vsport corsa and have barely scraped the surface of its capabilities
    Are we refering as Emerald products being crap?
  159. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #159
    no we deal with emerald also and we map them, we just offer the omex 600 series as part of the itb package. we "prefer" omex to emerald each to their own tho isnt it
  160. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leeroybrown View Post
    now thats what i call a baragin
    thats what i thort mate lol! might book it in
  161. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #161
    Quote:
    no we deal with emerald also and we map them, we just offer the omex 600 series as part of the itb package. we "prefer" omex to emerald each to their own tho isnt it
    Agreed...I was clearly stating that other ECU's do the same job, if not better
  162. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #162
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leeroybrown View Post
    Agreed...I was clearly stating that other ECU's do the same job, if not better
    lol you should work for emerald son
  163. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #163
    Ha ha i should

    Just think everyone rants and raves and OMEX and KMS, also good to throw something in the mix
  164. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #164
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leeroybrown View Post
    Ha ha i should

    Just think everyone rants and raves and OMEX and KMS, also good to throw something in the mix
    lol just confuse people mate
  165. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #165
    never!!!!
  166. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #166
    yea but people know what works! like the saying says if somethings not broken why fix it. omex does the job the same if not better than anything else is cheap enough and is easy to map with
  167. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #167
    each to there own
  168. L-plater Joined: Dec 2006 Stanley, Co durham Posts: 46 106 derv with 58 rapid horses :)
    #168
    At the end of the day all stand alone ecu's work on exactly the same, using binary and hexadecimal principals. It tends to be what software the mapper is comfortable using that determines if he likes the system or not! Its all the extras the different ecu's have that seperate them.
  169. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #169
    yea and the omex 600 has the most when it comes to extras. as i said previously we just prefer to use omex its like you prefer a certain type of fabric conditioner or tooth paste or soft drink, you dont hate others you just prefer that one.
  170. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #170
    Have you and can you map other types of ECU except Omex?
  171. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2006 washington Posts: 236 mk 2 saxo vtr
    #171
    yes of course we can
  172. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500
    #172
    all questions answered!
  173. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux
    #173
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leeroybrown View Post
    Have you and can you map other types of ECU except Omex?
    read back
  174. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samcook View Post
    one for you rush mate!
    des developments have gave me a price of £380 inclusive of vat to fit a new head gasket, skim the head, re grind the valves fit new stem seals replace the cambelt/tensioners and time up the 708s! and there getting back to me on a price for the omex fitted and mapped
    Damn that does sound good! Can assure you they will do a good job. Neil loves
    to work on engines. Thats his specialty
  175. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #175
    Did you get answer back Rush? ...About the ECU and temperature issue.
  176. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    Did you get answer back Rush? ...About the ECU and temperature issue.
    Ooops lol, wasnt on my to do list. Will ring em tomorrow on my break. They are
    lazy buggers. Dont get in the garage until 10am!
  177. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #177
    Shocking. lol
  178. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #178
    Guess they work too hard eh, need there beauty sleep. Well being honest they
    are always working one customer projects. I hear that a lot of their customers
    take part in track events too and racing.

    Basically means most there customers have fat wallets unlike myself!
  179. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #179
    Yes mate. Different game for the likes of you and me. Ho hum...
  180. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #180
    Just sell yours and donate the cash to me, I will make you proud
  181. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #181
    not with how nervious you got before silverstone, you were making me nervious!!but then we got out on track.... Lol
  182. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #182
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jpsaxo View Post
    not with how nervious you got before silverstone, you were making me nervious!!but then we got out on track.... Lol
    ME?! LOL I was only kidding! I was stupidly nervous at FCS though, that day
    I think a turtle head really did pop out
  183. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast
    #183
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    ME?! LOL I was only kidding! I was stupidly nervous at FCS though, that day
    I think a turtle head really did pop out
    Yes you!!
  184. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #184
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    Just sell yours and donate the cash to me, I will make you proud
    I'm proud of you already, you don't need my money...
  185. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #185
    depends on the type of jenveys used though, seen dcoes running poor power on tu engines due to the poor designs of most inlet manifolds needed to fit them to a tu.

    Sandy brown has overcome this with a longer more DTH type inlet manifold for the use of DCOEs on TUs
  186. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    I'm proud of you already, you don't need my money...
    Ahh I love you too man!


    I will have words with DD when I see them regarding the inlet manifolds, see
    what there expert opinion is. Tried to ring them on my break today but they
    were busy.
  187. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup
    #187
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
    Ahh I love you too man!


    I will have words with DD when I see them regarding the inlet manifolds, see
    what there expert opinion is. Tried to ring them on my break today but they
    were busy.
    ask them about the omex, they havent got back to me yet
  188. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #188
    They may take a bit of time with Emails. Ive sent them the full spec Im looking
    at earlier this week. Still waiting for a reply.

    Will do though Sam.
  189. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #189
    Nice one Rush.
  190. Established Member Joined: Jun 2007 k-in-a, notts Posts: 1858 bmw 330ci sport !
    #190
    want kind of bhp would i be getting on a vts with 708's and the jenvey set up ?? because that seams a very good price
  191. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #191
    Looking at around 165 to 170bhp but you can never be sure. Thas with the
    headwork too sorry.

    Its more the band of power that the setup improves from what Ive read.
  192. Established Member Joined: Jun 2007 k-in-a, notts Posts: 1858 bmw 330ci sport !
    #192
    yeah just seems alot of money (altogether with the head work) for not alot of bhp but from wat ive read it sounds awsome and quite powerfull..
    any one with tbs all ready fitted are they well reccomened ??
  193. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1
    #193
    See if you have the cams fitted, the head will almost be apart anyways I beleive.

    Just having the bodies and Omex fitted may work out cheaper. But Im not sure
    of the outcome without the cams in at the same time.
  194. Established Member Joined: Jun 2007 k-in-a, notts Posts: 1858 bmw 330ci sport !
    #194
    nahh i ment not goin to put tbs without cams i want most aggresive cams as possible (but still able to pass a mot) and tbs lol really intreasted but didnt no to go for all tht work done or put the money into another car..
  195. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #195
    It is well recommended buddy!! 708's are probably the most aggresive you could put in and pass an mot... Without using forgies, valve springs, retainers, shims etc!!
  196. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #196
    With ECUs such as OMEX and the like, you can pass an MOT with any cam profile. You can simply run a program which almost puts it into limp mode, and it will pass an MOT. Then pop it back over to your proper map programme, and bingo!
  197. Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279
    #197
    Nice one toad 4 tht although i have contacts 4 mot's
  198. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2006 Co Durham(north east) Posts: 626 cammed vts, (rest in pieces) corsa vxr - 340bhp
    #198
    can the omex store other maps so you can just swap them for mot time? or would you have to get it tweeked?
  199. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #199
    You can store. Basically mate, when you have an ECU such as an OMEX 600, you can look after your own engine management. All you need is a latop. The ECU will come with its own software. You can do all your own tweaking and what have you... fancy going on the rollers to tweak things? Just hire the roller out for an hour, and do all the work yourself...
  200. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2006 Co Durham(north east) Posts: 626 cammed vts, (rest in pieces) corsa vxr - 340bhp
    #200
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    You can store. Basically mate, when you have an ECU such as an OMEX 600, you can look after your own engine management. All you need is a latop. The ECU will come with its own software. You can do all your own tweaking and what have you... fancy going on the rollers to tweak things? Just hire the roller out for an hour, and do all the work yourself...
    cheers toad, lol think youve just sold me too the omex
  201. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #201
    You can do this with the KMS too I believe. Not 100% sure though.