Efficient Gearing!- Oh no (oh yes)

21st November 2007, 23:20

In search of better fuel consumption in 5th in my VTS, hopefully better than just changing it for another saxo box (VTS has worst ratio for 5th gear).

OK, as i gather from somebody more clever, there is very little chance of producing a really low ratio 5th gear specially for a saxo.

So, aside from a saxo gearbox, do any other gearboxes have a more efficient gearing ratio- maybe from another citroen? Any other boxes fit a citroen saxo?

21st November 2007, 23:36

the tallest 5th ratio is in the VTR box which will give you around a theoretical top speed of 164mph if you could top out in it.

on your vts box you'll smack 141 (i think) theoretically.

so for economy the VTR box would be better. that said your acceleration will suffer slightly as a result.

ads

21st November 2007, 23:49

Ads, wouldnt larger ( rolling radius / circumference ) wheels also alter the final drive gearing , like an overdrive box , if you get what I mean ?

21st November 2007, 23:55

yep it would do man, although there could be a couple problems going down that route:

1) fitment of tyres - likely to cause scubbing if the car is lowered
2) change of handing - likely to be less responsive (although comfier)

22nd November 2007, 09:45

Ok, next question to follow on from this...
Is there another box which would fit a saxo OR 5th gear parts from another box which could take this further than a vtr??

I never use 5th as something which i am concerned about accelerating with (you can get to the legal speed limit in 3rd)- so with so much power in the engine i would rather be at 3000 revs on the motorway rather than nearer to 4000 revs as i often spend a lot of time droning along the motorway, not like this chap who likes cornering

.

22nd November 2007, 09:54

Improving your aerodynamics would aid motorway fuel useage!
De spoiler, smaller mirrors! Reduce the cars drag.

Larger rolling radius would also put the speedo out!

22nd November 2007, 10:04

I was wondering also about swapping body parts with a 1.1 style as well, but cant bring myself to do it, not sure about weight difference or drag difference for that matter.

22nd November 2007, 10:06

want to save fuel...

22nd November 2007, 10:15

ah yes, but still keep the speed of the vts- hence the gear adjustment... of course a 1.1. would be more efficient, however i just want to adjust what i have!!

22nd November 2007, 15:41

would it not be possible to change the 5th gear in a vts box for one from a vtr box?

or am i missing the point o fhow gearboxs work
ie: your just cant change 1 gear

22nd November 2007, 15:59

Or something even better geared for what i want it to do--- ideally you would be at the lowest revs possible to keep the car going at motorway speed... so my question is kind of the same as yours? maybe there is some diesel ratio that has a better 5th for this situation???

Look at him go

22nd November 2007, 16:42

oh yes- another point about adjusting 5th gear is thatyou can still use the car as it was before apart from this crucial 'overdrive' fuel saving.

23rd November 2007, 17:37

I know this may not be much help but i am sure somewhere i have seen you can buy just a new 5th gear and it has a better ratio for fuel economy.
I will try and track down where i saw it

23rd November 2007, 22:37

You can't just change the 5th gear from another saxo box, and anyway the vtr has the same gears as the vts - it's the final drive that is different. Only thing I can think of would be to look at a quaife gearset, I know they make close ratio gearsets but not sure about longer ratio sets, I doubt there would be demand for making your car slower? You can also buy Pugsport final drive ratios from GMC Motorsport, might be worth looking into as I can't see how you can achieve what you're looking for without compromising acceleration in the lower gears.

24th November 2007, 19:31

take a look as diesel ratios, i recently had a 406 with the petrol 2.0 and added a 1.9tdi 406 5th gear to it and it halfed the usual revs with a theoretical top end of 180mph now obivously not attinable but fuel consumption is amazing now and clearly acceleration the other gears will take you up to about the same and in most cars the 5th top speed is same as 4th but to know if you can do this you must take the gear box out and check if it is the 5th on the outside or 1st as it varies car to car if it is 1st it will be difficult to change 5th but if it is 5th its a simple swap for a cog that will fit possibly from a similar diesel enging!!

24th November 2007, 19:42

wouldnt it be a false economy putting in another box or messing with you box...

how much is it going to cost to do the work?

how long will it take to re-coup the money youve spent on the work with savings?

no point...

24th November 2007, 20:46

you can change 5th gear on its own, it's the only gear in the whole box bar reverse that is removeable from the set.

25th November 2007, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

you can change 5th gear on its own, it's the only gear in the whole box bar reverse that is removeable from the set.

Ah cool, I was always led to believe (from posts on SSC funnily enough...) that you couldn't change 5th on it's own. That's good to know, cheers.

25th November 2007, 16:45

stick a vtr final drive on there, its easy to do with a bit of know how, give me to mins all get you the diagrams etc

25th November 2007, 16:47

guide to change it
http://www.suzukituning.com/PSA/MA5%..._category_id=2

also got some diagrams somewhere on how to tottaly take it apart.

25th November 2007, 17:00

HERE WE GO

http://www.peugeot206cc.co.uk/repair-206/

i know it says for 206 but its the ma gearbox (one saxo/106/ax use)

Click mechanical then transmission

Hope that helps anyone out there

25th November 2007, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_VTS

stick a vtr final drive on there, its easy to do with a bit of know how, give me to mins all get you the diagrams etc

Be easier to just fit a vtr 'box as it's the same as the vts bar the final drive

25th November 2007, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Be easier to just fit a vtr 'box as it's the same as the vts bar the final drive

many belive that the vtr box doesnt infact use the same sports cluster as the vts/gti/xsi/rallye

25th November 2007, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

many belive that the vtr box doesnt infact use the same sports cluster as the vts/gti/xsi/rallye

was just about to say that, meant to slow acceleration, garage that looked at my car said VTR box was exactly the same

25th November 2007, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

many belive that the vtr box doesnt infact use the same sports cluster as the vts/gti/xsi/rallye

Fair enough, guess that's what happens when you read shite on SSC

7th January 2008, 20:11

great replies- many thanks

8th January 2008, 00:58

wow, im so gonna do this when get a vts engine.

8th January 2008, 02:39

what? put the wrong gearbox in to kill the engines performance?
why do yous want to ruin the engines characteristics?

steve - im glad you think its easy to strip and rebuild a gearbox

8th January 2008, 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonezy

wow, im so gonna do this when get a vts engine.

whats the point of the vts engine then lol

8th January 2008, 09:50

erm- we are talking about changing 5th gear- not getting a vtr engine and removing the accelerator-

In 3rd gear, unchipped you can go up to 90mph- as i am a road user i spend a lot of time at **exactly 70 mph**- well anyway, going down the motorway i am using this 'low' 5th gear for no reason at all, would much rather save the engine wear (this hasnt been mentioned really and should be) and the fuel (which will become increasingly more expensive as we run out of oil)!---

I got my VTS as it is pretty close to my ideal car- quick but not a gas guzzler in comparison (if you want to accelerate as hard in a golf you need a 2L V6)- the gear adjustment is just another step moving the car i want to keep nearer to ideal- it doesnt really matter if the saving in fuel doent pay it back, a quieter ride on the motorway and longer engine life will be good for me!

8th January 2008, 14:19

thankyou johndoe.

isnt the speed in 4th enough? will it kill the characteristics. its one gear which isnt often used for accelerating.

il give you that 5th gear acceleration will be hampered but wont be detrimental (as in the end of the world).

ive got it into my head that only the top gear will be affected (if that isnt right tell me so gently)

8th January 2008, 16:33

this is going to sound really silly, buh ever tried going slower??

when i got my close box i found my self at 60 now instead, its actully crazy the difference it makes

8th January 2008, 19:10

I didnt realise this until I went on the Suzuki tuning page. There are 3 choices for 5th! I previously thought the longest was from the 8v Saxos (0.767)... turns out theres a longer one but not a clue what its from!?? 0.68085

0.68085 5th with VTR final drive gives 186mph in 5th - Probably an indicated 200mph!! 0r 20mph

Cruise at 70mph at 2730rpm

30th April 2008, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_VTS

HERE WE GO

http://www.peugeot206cc.co.uk/repair-206/

i know it says for 206 but its the ma gearbox (one saxo/106/ax use)

Click mechanical then transmission

Hope that helps anyone out there

Steve- does this really mean that 206's are all ma5 gearboxes? If so, surely an hdi 5th gear from one would be ideal.

30th April 2008, 23:18

No, most 206s use the BE gearbox, except for those using TU engines(1.1, 1.4, 1.6)

1st May 2008, 11:09

thanks Alex.