S1 rallye box? what size final drive shall i have?

1. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

   #1 26th November 2007, 08:37

   iv fitted an s1 rallye box to my vts. done 30k.
   
   i cant get it in reverse and it struggles into 5th. could i have done something wrong or is it the internals of the box?
   
   all other gears are spot on. could it make a big difference if the linkage arms were bent in carriage?
   
   please help!
2. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

   #2 26th November 2007, 08:47

   Mine's a struggle getting in reverse... I'm no gearbox expert mate, so I can't help you much here I'm afraid.
3. Dax24 Infrequent Poster Joined: Aug 2007 Essex Posts: 189 mk1 Saxo VTS

   #3 26th November 2007, 09:34

   just a quick question but what put a s1 rallye box on your motor?
   also what diff is in the s1 box?
   
   i am currently running a 106xsi box which has a 4-1 diff with a custom short ratio setup.
4. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

   #4 26th November 2007, 12:25

   4-1 diff?
   
   4.29 for Xsi, 4.54 for S1 Rallye.
   
   Check your linkages dude, the two gears are common as Im sure you know, same selector mech. Have a look and see that theyre straight. If its hard to get into gear without the engine running then its almost deffo linkages; could be a selector arm but they very rarely fail.
5. Dax24 Infrequent Poster Joined: Aug 2007 Essex Posts: 189 mk1 Saxo VTS

   #5 26th November 2007, 13:03

   [QUOTE=Gabbastard;1651503]4-1 diff?
   
   4.29 for Xsi, 4.54 for S1 Rallye.
   QUOTE]
   
   opps 4.29 was what i ment...lol
   thanks for putting up the s1 for me
6. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

   #6 26th November 2007, 13:05

   yer i went for the s1 rallye as its kinda in between.
   
   my linkages arnt catching anything and i think they are all on correct!
7. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

   #7 26th November 2007, 14:24

   In between what exactly?
8. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

   #8 26th November 2007, 14:57

   In Between The Vts Box And The Xsi Box In Relation To Accelleration & Topend
9. jpsaxo Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast

   #9 26th November 2007, 15:02

   could be worth getting some better gear linkages, there only £45 on ebay iirc
10. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #10 26th November 2007, 15:40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts In Between The Vts Box And The Xsi Box In Relation To Accelleration & Topend

    Nope, the XSI box is in between the VTS box and the S1 box. BIG difference there, lol.
11. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #11 26th November 2007, 16:08

    Ahhh Right Lol. Never Mind It'll Still Fly When Its Up And Running Lol
12. leeK9 Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 letterkenny,donegal,ireland Posts: 1338 citroen saxo VTS

    #12 26th November 2007, 16:27

    your vts box needs to be persuaded into every gear
    
    ment to ask you as well that my mechanic said something about a missing selector.i gave him the three xsport lingages that i bought in the group buy btw so there on now and he made it work somehow
13. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #13 26th November 2007, 17:07

    It Didnt Need Persuading On My Car!
14. leeK9 Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 letterkenny,donegal,ireland Posts: 1338 citroen saxo VTS

    #14 26th November 2007, 17:23

    probably the linkages then
15. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #15 26th November 2007, 17:35

    where did you find a S1 box with 30k on out of intrest?!
    
    Top end is shocking on a S1 box in my mates rallye.
16. gazza808 Frequent Poster Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 591

    #16 26th November 2007, 18:34

    check linkages,
    
    maybe the clutch, when my clutch was going it started getting hard to select reverse, always crunched
17. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #17 26th November 2007, 19:10

    How good is the box apart from tht? Does it improve acceleration or too short?
18. griff Infrequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Posts: 191

    #18 26th November 2007, 20:16

    S1 box will be the shortest standard box you can get for the TU engines, followed by the 1.4 xsi.
    
    improves the acceleration dramaticly but top engine is reduced to around 125mhp.
19. L8R_VTR Frequent Poster Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 786

    #19 26th November 2007, 21:12

    What sort of sped would you get top end with the 1.4 xsi box on just out of intrest??
20. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #20 26th November 2007, 22:29

    Just to give a clue about the S1... I think it goes to around 130 mph @ 7800 rpm. Well, close enough really. However, you need to remember that to get the last 10 mph out of it, you're already going to be over 7000 rpm, and there's not a heck of a lot of power there. It will pull to 120 mph for me like shit off a shovel. Who needs greater top end than that anyway?
21. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #21 26th November 2007, 23:13

    Me with more torque and an 8600 limit
    
    And on some tracks you will top out, as they have long straights
22. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #22 27th November 2007, 10:45

    8600 limit! you wont use that many revs mate! there wiould have to be some seriously highlift cams with big piston cut outs to need a limiter that high! but id say you'll easily pull 140mph with an 8600 limiter and an s1 rallye box.
23. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #23 27th November 2007, 12:19

    145 to be exact!! You dnt know my spec
24. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #24 27th November 2007, 12:31

    You Right I Dont Kow Your Spec Mate! What Kinda Cams You Using Etc?
    
    My Vts Is Pushing Out 147 Bhp @wheels And Spins Up In 3rd With The Rallye Box On So God Knows What It Will Be Like With Any More Power Lol! Would Be Mental!
25. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #25 27th November 2007, 12:55

    Hate to argue with you Spencer, but those wheel figures you got from Wayne are questionable to say the least. I would put you at around 130 @ the wheels.
26. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #26 27th November 2007, 13:35

    I Know They Are A Bit Enthusiastic Lol
27. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #27 27th November 2007, 14:02

    Id say i may be between 155-165 at the wheels!! May even be more Check my progress thread!! Cams are 290 degrees
28. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #28 27th November 2007, 15:08

    Be interesting to see what the Dyno says mate.
29. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #29 27th November 2007, 16:57

    IT WILL BE INTERESTING! im having mine remapped again in the new year when iv got a few prezzies fitted. would i need pison cut outs for 803's?
    
    dont know whether to go see wayne or go somewhere else. GMC is way too far for me so may look into somewhere else.
30. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #30 27th November 2007, 17:41

    id personally still buy a second hand quaife or psa sport kit for your car.
    
    the s1 box may be the best of the std boxes but with the powerband you will be running its no where near ideal
31. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #31 27th November 2007, 19:05

    Anything with more lift than 708s will require forged pistons or cutouts to your stock ones.
32. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

    #32 27th November 2007, 19:49

    Dyno graphs for proper figures
    Its nuts with some of the stuff your running atm
    
    Whos done the most on here? imao i thought it was between Simo and JPsaxo for engine mods but i may be wrong...
    
    How much difference is the S1 box to the VTS Toad/Spence? figures and feeling wise
33. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #33 28th November 2007, 20:19

    what speed are you doing in 4th in s1 box? when i get mine (fingers crossed) i was going to stick my vts 5th gear on it.
    but dont want to do it incase it starts to be similiar to turbo lag lmao
34. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #34 28th November 2007, 21:49

    There's no point, as the gear is the same. It's the final drive that makes all the difference.
35. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

    #35 28th November 2007, 23:38

    a VTR or diesel 5th will make a slight difference and get somewhere towards a half-sensible cruising 5th.
36. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #36 29th November 2007, 08:18

    my so called rallye box ssems to be pyulling 80mph at 4000rpm! strange!"
    
    i could be sure it doesnt bog as much in 2nd though when you change up and also it feels like 1st 2nd & 3rd are lower geared as it spins up easier. unless my new head has created a slightly different power curve?
37. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #37 29th November 2007, 08:40

    It's not a S1 then mate...
38. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #38 29th November 2007, 12:31

    well thats what i thought. i dont know what they sent me! unless it was an S2 rallye box?
39. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #39 29th November 2007, 12:35

    S2 box mate!! I had one of them before... its 4k at 80mph dead pretty much... s1 is 70mph at 4k
40. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #40 29th November 2007, 12:39

    is there any way from that that you can tell its an s1 rallye box? is there any difference from the outside to a rallye box from a vts/vtr box?
41. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #41 29th November 2007, 12:41

    Gearbox code mate!! Check tht
    
    Plus the revs it 4100k at 70mph exactly
42. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #42 29th November 2007, 12:41

    Check my progress thread
43. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #43 29th November 2007, 12:45

    iv just put a reply up on your progress thread mate. what should the code say buddy?
    
    iv just been on to the breakers cause the box they sent me cant get reverse so they are sending me another. i explained what i asked for and how i know its not an s1 rallye box and he said he doesnt know what went wrong there. he has just told me that he is now dispatching me a mk1 XSI box. is that a good thing or a bad thing. he said he knows its a mk1 xsi cause he took it off the car this morning.
    
    its done 68k BTW
44. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #44 29th November 2007, 12:51

    code is 20cb90... The xsi boxes are wicked mate!!
45. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #45 29th November 2007, 13:00

    but he also told me the mk1 xsi is a 1.3!
    
    its a 1.4 aint it?
46. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #46 29th November 2007, 13:12

    whats the code on the box?
47. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #47 29th November 2007, 13:14

    i dont know without walking 00m to my car in the multistory lol
    
    where abouts is the code?
48. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

    #48 29th November 2007, 13:19

    its on a flat part of the casing, on the front of the box. Can be read when viewed from the nearside.
49. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #49 29th November 2007, 13:20

    There's not a massive difference between the VTS, 1.4 XSI and S2 rallye gearboxes. However, there's a fairly big difference with the S1. I can't remember where the code is, lol.
50. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #50 29th November 2007, 13:38

    i thought the 1.4 xsi box was quite short ratio?
51. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

    #51 29th November 2007, 13:39

    
    
    bit to the left of the word "filler". Normally stamped on, not printed like that.
52. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

    #52 29th November 2007, 13:40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts i thought the 1.4 xsi box was quite short ratio?

    FDs are as follows
    
    VTS 3.93
    XSi etc 4.29
    Rallye 4.54
    
    so yeah its shorter, not by a huge amount. Almost same difference between VTS->Xsi, then XSi->VTS
53. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #53 29th November 2007, 13:42

    so the xsi box is kinda bang in the middle "ish"
    
    should see some difference in accelleration but not lose an awful lot of top end?
54. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #54 29th November 2007, 13:52

    Mate, @ 7800 rpm the VTS box can take you to 150 + mph! So you are not exactly losing anything top end. At the same rpm, the S1 will still take you to nearly 130 mph!!! You don't need more than that.
55. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #55 29th November 2007, 13:57

    i know. when wayne mapped my car it touched 149mph in 5th at 7800rpm. i never go over 130 anyway. i just want the S1 rallye box but the breakers im getting it off just dont seem to know what im talking about.
56. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #56 29th November 2007, 14:13

    The breakers probz dnt know the difference between an s1 and an s2, lol
    
    Xsi is a 1.4
57. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #57 29th November 2007, 14:18

    yer i know the xsi is a 1.4 bud. just rang them again and they said the gearbox is off a 106 xsi rallye 1.3
    
    what the fuck are they on about?
58. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

    #58 29th November 2007, 14:22

    Ask if its an iron blocked engine
59. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #59 29th November 2007, 14:24

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts is there any way from that that you can tell its an s1 rallye box? is there any difference from the outside to a rallye box from a vts/vtr box?

    just the code on the box mate, but they could have swapped the bell house?
60. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #60 29th November 2007, 14:26

    i would never trust breakers after the carry on i have had
61. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #61 29th November 2007, 14:33

    In laymans terms I think this is the best way to describe how the power to the wheels changes with alternate final drives... Someone correct me if i'm wrong please.
    
    Let's say you own a mountain bike, but because it's a pikey mountain bike, it's only got 5 gears... Let's imagine you've got strong legs, but you can only pedal so fast no matter how easy it is to pedal. Once you start to pedal in the easiest gear, you soon can't pedal any faster, and you find yourself not going that quick, so you move up a gear, but now you find you have to pedal with more force. This is because your wee legs don't have to make so many revolutions to produce the same speed, hence, it requires more force... Simple gearing.
    
    So why can you accelerate quicker with the S1 box? Well... Let's go back to the pikey bike imagination. This time, your bike is slightly different, it's still got 5 gears, but each gear seems a little harder to push... But you find that you can go a bit faster before your legs are going like the clappers! By the time you've got to your hardest gear (5th) and your legs are moving quite quickly, just like on the last bike, you notice that you are going at a faster top speed. Let's imagine that this bike is actually a Saxo with a VTS gearbox, and the first bike was a Saxo with a S1 gearbox...
    
    Each gear in the S1 (bike) is easier to pedal than the same gears in the VTS (bike) so you can pedal really fast with little resistance! and pull away quite sharpish! But the downside is that you find you have to change gear sooner, and when you reach 5th gear, you might still have plenty of power left in your legs, but you can't pedal any quicker...
62. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #62 29th November 2007, 14:43

    i cold have done with being told that beforehand lol
63. jpsaxo Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast

    #63 29th November 2007, 14:44

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts IT WILL BE INTERESTING! im having mine remapped again in the new year when iv got a few prezzies fitted. would i need pison cut outs for 803's? dont know whether to go see wayne or go somewhere else. GMC is way too far for me so may look into somewhere else.

    You will need solid lifters, double valve springs etc for 803's mate, and high comp pistons etc
64. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #64 29th November 2007, 14:46

    Wot a joke!! ask them to get there facts right or send pics of the car
65. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #65 29th November 2007, 14:48

    well the box has been despatched now. which has the cast iron head then
66. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #66 29th November 2007, 15:44

    the code on the box from them is 20CB81 what box is that?
67. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #67 29th November 2007, 16:05

    Here are the codes then...
    
    106/saxo/ax 1.0 5 speed
    
    16x63fd:
    CA09
    CA44
    CA99
    CB28
    CB56
    CB81
    CC25
    CC44
    CE09
    CE21
    CE68
    
    13x59fd
    CA22
    CA57
    CA90
    CB13
    CB47
    CB66
    CC31
    CE14
    CE64
    
    1.1 5 speed:
    
    16X63fd
    CA09
    CA44
    CA99
    CBE6
    CB28
    CB56
    CB81
    CCB5
    CC25
    CC44
    CE09
    CE21
    CE68
    
    17X61fd
    CAC2
    CAF7
    CAJ6
    CA32
    CA67
    CA96
    CBE3
    CB53
    CC24
    CE08
    CE58
    
    106 1.4 XSi:
    CA23
    CA58
    CBJ3
    CB93
    CBF8
    CB15
    CB57
    CB68
    CB93
    CC33
    CC53
    CDE1
    CD13
    CD51
    
    106 1.3 rallye:
    CB90
    CBJ0
    CCE0
    CC50
    CD11
    CD49
    CDD9
68. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #68 29th November 2007, 16:07

    here are a few ratios i have found and by the looks of it they sent me a 1.0l or 1.1 litre gearbox.
    
    and it does definatly pull 80mph on the clock at 4000rpm
69. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #69 29th November 2007, 16:18

    Jesus. What a bunch of numpties... Nice one with the codes. I have a sneaky feeling mine was something like MA5 20CB90 But I'm not 100%..........
70. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #70 29th November 2007, 16:25

    i dont know how they could have got that box off a rallye unless the rallye had blown its box at some point and fitted a 1.1 or 1.0 box rather than find another rallye box?
    
    that would explain the difference in ratio's in 1st 2nd 3rd etc but i didnt think it would pull 80mph at 4000rpm in 5th!
71. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #71 29th November 2007, 17:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts he said he knows its a mk1 xsi cause he took it off the car this morning. its done 68k BTW

    that means fuck all tbh, people blow boxes and dont allways put the proper ones go back on! tons of fools whack 1.1 boxes on.
    
    i personally if you deal with them in future request codes before payment
72. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #72 29th November 2007, 18:31

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts the code on the box from them is 20CB81 what box is that?

    1.1 box ftl i have a nice collection of them from my breakers sending wrong ones.
    
    They say came off vts and i said did you check the code! they say yes and send more lmao
    Deffinately get your money back, bunch of idiots!
    
    p.s did you get permission to copy that gearbox code thread
73. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #73 29th November 2007, 18:34

    ill check the code on this one and if its not right then ill send it back and wait until they send me the correct one. and quote codes to them.
74. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #74 29th November 2007, 18:38

    Yeh thats a good idea, wot is the scrapyard do they have a lot of french cars? I need a passenger side arch still
75. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #75 29th November 2007, 18:42

    i sent the codes to my breakers and just kept sending 1.1's not fucked as sell them and get my money back aslong as pays for my newer trusted box
76. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #76 30th November 2007, 10:34

    been in touch again and they say its a mk1 1.3 xsi box. but they must be saying 1.3 because its a 1.394 or summart like that.
77. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #77 30th November 2007, 10:42

    Anyway, it's not what you want, so sort it out!
78. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #78 30th November 2007, 12:40

    I Carnt Be Arsed To Wait Any Longer! Lol And If Im Boosting It In The New Year Then It Will Be Better Than The Rallye Box.
79. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #79 30th November 2007, 13:23

    If it's a 1.1 box then it won't have the same diff IIRC. It will be a pile of plop.
80. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #80 3rd December 2007, 12:48

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts Here are the codes then... 106/saxo/ax 1.0 5 speed 16x63fd: CA09 CA44 CA99 CB28 CB56 CB81 CC25 CC44 CE09 CE21 CE68 13x59fd CA22 CA57 CA90 CB13 CB47 CB66 CC31 CE14 CE64 1.1 5 speed: 16X63fd CA09 CA44 CA99 CBE6 CB28 CB56 CB81 CCB5 CC25 CC44 CE09 CE21 CE68 17X61fd CAC2 CAF7 CAJ6 CA32 CA67 CA96 CBE3 CB53 CC24 CE08 CE58 106 1.4 XSi: CA23 CA58 CBJ3 CB93 CBF8 CB15 CB57 CB68 CB93 CC33 CC53 CDE1 CD13 CD51 106 1.3 rallye: CB90 CBJ0 CCE0 CC50 CD11 CD49 CDD9

    
    TO FIND OUT THE FINAL DRIVES YOU NEED TO DIVIDE THE BIG NUMBER BY THE LITTLE NUMBER.(sorry caps)
    
    but these final drives arnt coming out right. e.g. one of the 1.1 boxes is 61/17 =3.58
    
    does that seem a hell of a small FD or what?
81. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #81 4th December 2007, 07:53

    anyone? (TOAD)? lol
82. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #82 4th December 2007, 12:39

    What's up?
    
    With regard to the differeing FDs... Just because it's a 1.1 doesn't mean it should have a high FD. I assume the reason the the S1 Rallye had a box with such a high FD it because it's a really revvy engine, and the high FD compliments this fact quite well. Just a thought...
83. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #83 4th December 2007, 18:40

    The higher the final drive the shorter the gears!! Like the s1 rallye box is 4.54 so im guessing the 1.1 box is very long then.
84. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #84 4th December 2007, 18:44

    That's not exactly right dude. The gear ratios are not altered by the FD.
85. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #85 4th December 2007, 18:46

    i swear the gears are the same, but the final drives are different!!??
86. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

    #86 4th December 2007, 19:11

    not in the 1.1 box. the gear clusters are different.
    
    Though as Ive said before, some 1.1 boxes came with a 4.29 CW+P,so theyre not all totally bum.
87. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #87 5th December 2007, 08:00

    i have ditched the idea of dealing with these scrappys (PCR RECYCLERS) they are rubbish. totally rubbish. sent me two wrong boxes claiming they weree off rallyes and i got a 1.1box and a diesel box.
    
    so i rang up a company yesterday and ordered a reconditioned S1 rallye box £340 including delivery. he's building it up for me over the next couple of days.
    
    that pricey or cheap or what lads?
88. craig180p Yorkshire Joined: Dec 2005 West Yorkshire Posts: 31079 1989 Golf GTi Clipper

    #88 5th December 2007, 09:07

    Seems a good price if he's totally rebuilding it. You can pay that for a rebuild alone!
89. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #89 5th December 2007, 12:25

    sound ok i would have spoke to matt a pug1off he does it cheaper!!
    
    Plus can build a shorter ma box than the s1!!
90. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #90 5th December 2007, 12:33

    well this guy i spoke to said. what gears do you want and what final drive do you want! i didnt have enough time to go looking through gear ratios etc so i just said i want everything the same as an S1 rallye box. all gears the same & the same final drive.
    
    he could have put me an AX gti fd in if i wanted but i dont want silly revvs as my limiter is at 7800 and i want some kinda half decent mpg on motorway drives!
91. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

    #91 5th December 2007, 13:14

    AX GTi FD is longer, youd be at lower revs on motorway in 5th
    
    ??
92. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #92 5th December 2007, 14:41

    Can you give me his name and contact details please? lol
    
    I need a re-build done soon, and it would be interesting to know if he could do anything with 1st gear... As it's so damn short.
93. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #93 5th December 2007, 16:28

    There is a 306 box with a shorter final drive thats all im saying
94. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #94 7th December 2007, 08:07

    Ill get the number up for you in a bit dave. they said to me that if i tell them what gears etc i want then they will just build it. all the same price. £260 + carriage then + vat
95. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #95 7th December 2007, 08:38

    cant remember the company name off hand but i spoke to a chap called paul. the number is 01274 865 333
96. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #96 7th December 2007, 16:08

    Nice one dooooood. I'll give them a ring something in the near future. Got a lot of things going at the moment!
97. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #97 7th December 2007, 16:43

    yer sound. let me know how you get on with them! maybe get them to stick in an LSD at the same time! lol
98. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #98 7th December 2007, 17:41

    I'd love to mate, but the budget is running tight at the moment. I may just do this, but it won't be anytime soon.
99. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #99 27th January 2008, 17:09

    got another wrong gearbox from a recon centre. i told them exactly what to build me. basically said a marque 1 106 rallye box and that its got a 4.54 final drive.
    
    i dont know what the fcuk they have sent me but im pulling 95mph in 5th @ 400rpm! im sure i should be doing about 70!
    
    what do you think they have sent me?
100. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

     #100 27th January 2008, 17:22

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts got another wrong gearbox from a recon centre. i told them exactly what to build me. basically said a marque 1 106 rallye box and that its got a 4.54 final drive. i dont know what the fcuk they have sent me but im pulling 95mph in 5th @ 400rpm! im sure i should be doing about 70! what do you think they have sent me?

     400 or 4000 be a vtr final drive.
101. andywiddss1 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2007 skipton northyorks Posts: 5275 clio 172 exclusive track toy

     #101 27th January 2008, 17:27

     thats a vtr diff 106s1 does 80mph 5000rpm
102. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #102 27th January 2008, 17:32

     sorry. 4000. thats still high for a vtr though! (i think)
103. Joesnow Frequent Poster Joined: May 2006 Posts: 691 Mk 1 VTS poseidon blue

     #103 27th January 2008, 21:02

     I’ve got a spreadsheet with all the ratios and final drives in if you want it? Maybe you can work out what you've got! If that guy can do any ratios you should have got a longer 1st!
     
     S1 box should do 67.6mph in 5th at 4000rpm with 195/45 r15 tyres
     
     Theres a quaife synchro gearset thats very similar to the s1 rallye but with a longer 1st...
104. jpsaxo Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast

     #104 27th January 2008, 23:56

     I have a friend who has just got an s1 (with s1 box)
     
     They fetch anything up to £300 for 2nd hand now - so if you want it let me know what your offering and i'll tell him...
105. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #105 28th January 2008, 08:16

     well the recon box im getting only cost me £340 so im gonna get these guys to build me the right one joshy baby!
106. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #106 28th January 2008, 08:19

     is the correct diff size for the s1 rallye box 4.54?
     
     can someone post up the ratios?
     
     iv tried to go on ssc to get them but my computer is being gay and wont show imiges. got to be types down lads
107. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

     #107 28th January 2008, 08:51

     That's the correct FD of the S1 box mate. Here's the link: http://www.saxosportsclub.com/Forums...c/t=17814.html
108. jpsaxo Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast

     #108 28th January 2008, 12:12

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts well the recon box im getting only cost me £340 so im gonna get these guys to build me the right one joshy baby!

     Lets hope they actualy send you an S1 box this time!! If not you know where i am.
109. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #109 28th January 2008, 12:30

     thanks mate. ill ask them to see what they are gonna do. and see if this time they will cover garage fees to fit it. they should do as its thier fault! dont ya think?
110. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #110 31st January 2008, 08:56

     right they have been in touch and said if you drive up to us in blackburn, we will build the box and fit it while you wait free of charge and then will give you the petrol money for coming up here!
     
     cant grumble at that! if im getting them to do it for me. how hard would it be to get another gear in there? a 6th? aam i just dreaming or is it not a hard thing to do?
     
     please help me on this one! i caould have the best of both worlds. shit hot accel' and good top end too!
111. Joesnow Frequent Poster Joined: May 2006 Posts: 691 Mk 1 VTS poseidon blue

     #111 31st January 2008, 12:47

     No I don't think you can fit a 6th gear! If possible try and get a longer 1st gear instead! 1st on the s1 box is far too short and wastes a gear! You can get away with a longer 1st and a higher top speed with not much loss in acceleration!
     
     If you think about tracking it... you only start off once so you can have an even longer 1st... it might bog down a bit off the line but then you will have 5useable gears round the track (similar to a 6 speed box)
     
     Have a look at the quaife ratios! I just posted them up the other day! If this guy can mix and match the gears, (i don't know if it's possible) but you could perhaps remove 1st gear and shift all the others along, so 2nd is 1st 3rd is 2nd etc and put a vtr 5th in there and change the FD... that would make a cheap quaife box if you know what i mean?
112. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

     #112 31st January 2008, 13:18

     Gotcha... Fair enough, the S1 is a bit poop, but this is mainly due to 1st gear. Obviously some of the Quaife setups are miles better. Sadly, if you just changed 1st gear, it wouldn't cure everything, as it would then be too close to 2nd. I think @ 7800rpm, 1st takes you to around 39mph. Somewhere around 55mph would be much better, but as 2nd only takes you to 59mph, you're a tad screwed, lol.
     
     Keeping 7800rpm in mind, I reckon gears which would allow for the following top speeds would be spot on:
     
     1st -> 55
     2nd -> 70
     3rd -> 86
     4th -> 104
     5th -> 128
113. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #113 31st January 2008, 19:48

     this guy can mix and match gears so what do you think i should have as a 1st gear then? i think 2nd would be too long to use as a 1st gear.
114. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #114 1st February 2008, 12:29

     anyone?
115. Joesnow Frequent Poster Joined: May 2006 Posts: 691 Mk 1 VTS poseidon blue

     #115 1st February 2008, 13:05

     I'm at work atm but I'll have a play around when I get back...
     
     Theres a bigger final drive in an ax but I'm not sure what it is and which models it's in... if anyone knows that would make it a bit better as 2nd as a 1st would probably be too long with on a n/a car with a s1 final drive
116. Joesnow Frequent Poster Joined: May 2006 Posts: 691 Mk 1 VTS poseidon blue

     #116 1st February 2008, 15:44

     Think you will need to find a bigger FD... the s1 is the biggest I know of (4.54) the biggest quaife do is 4.857...
     
     s1 rally box at 7800rpm with 2nd as 1st, 3rd as 2nd, 4th as 3rd, 5th as 4th and a vtr 5th as 5th with 195/45 R15 tyres and a 5.2 final drive
     
     1st - 50.1mph
     2nd - 72.4mph
     3rd - 93.1mph
     4th - 115.0mph
     5th - 127.5mph
     
     Quite similar to the quaife close ratio synchro set with the 3.938 FD, same tyres and rev limit:
     
     1st - 51.1mph
     2nd - 74.4mph
     3rd - 91.2mph
     4th - 108.9mph
     5th - 124.3mph
     
     Also not too far from what toads fancying
     
     That’s assuming the gears can be swapped about... I know 5ths different than the rest so there might be an issue swapping 5th to 4th
     
     5.2 Final Drive - seems prices I'm not sure if this is an lsd or what and not sure if it will fit
     
     There must be a cheap 5.2 FD somewhere... maybe you would have to go to France or search rally forums etc... there’s an ax 1.0 4x4 with a big FD but not sure what it is and I can't imagine they're easy to get hold of!
117. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #117 1st February 2008, 16:59

     Is There Any Other Box That Has A Slightly Longer 1st Than The Rallye Box? Anything Would Be A Bonus!
118. Joesnow Frequent Poster Joined: May 2006 Posts: 691 Mk 1 VTS poseidon blue

     #118 1st February 2008, 17:28

     Not really no. If you had a longer 1st then it would be too clost to 2nd and that would be worse... thats why you need to shift them all along (if its possible)
119. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

     #119 4th February 2008, 12:57

     Good work Joe!
     
     Worryingly, the rev drop from 1st to 2nd would be quite big there I think. 50 mph in 1st is about spot on IMO though.
     
     As the S1 stands, at 7800 on the usual stuff, I think the limits are roughly:
     
     1st - 38
     2nd - 58
     3rd - 81
     4th - 104
     5th - 125
     
     ...thinking about it, it's pretty cack really, lol. I think the biggest problem is 1st and 2nd. If 1st went to about 50, and second to about 65, I think that would help a lot...
120. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #120 4th February 2008, 13:49

     6th gear you really are in dream world.
     where do you suppose you are going to get a 6th gear from? where do you think its going to fit on the shaft and in the casing?
121. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

     #121 4th February 2008, 13:50

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by spencer_cammedvts Is There Any Other Box That Has A Slightly Longer 1st Than The Rallye Box? Anything Would Be A Bonus!

     quaife gearset.
122. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #122 5th February 2008, 08:13

     Quote:

     Originally Posted by Toad Good work Joe! Worryingly, the rev drop from 1st to 2nd would be quite big there I think. 50 mph in 1st is about spot on IMO though. As the S1 stands, at 7800 on the usual stuff, I think the limits are roughly: 1st - 38 2nd - 58 3rd - 81 4th - 104 5th - 125 ...thinking about it, it's pretty cack really, lol. I think the biggest problem is 1st and 2nd. If 1st went to about 50, and second to about 65, I think that would help a lot...

     65 in 2nd. is that not pretty much the same as a vts?
     
     this company can put whatever size final drive in there i want so i have the choice of anything really he was reeling some off yesterday 4.28, 4.42 and there was the 4.54 rallye one.
     
     what do you guys recon? the what is the rallye final drive in terms of 17x65 or 13x63 or whatever? do you know what i mean?
     
     could do with that finding out for tomorrow as thats how he works it out.
123. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

     #123 5th February 2008, 12:37

     As we've been discussin mate, it's not the FD that's the problem here, it's the gearset. So whatever FD you choose, you're still going to be burdened by the poop ratios.
124. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

     #124 5th February 2008, 12:43

     yer i suppose i didnt know wheather it would be worth going for like the 4 42 just to make 1st that bit more useable and have slightly more top end?
125. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

     #125 5th February 2008, 12:52

     Same post as in the other thread. What are you up to eh? Let's follow in your newer thread for now then.