What can i actully do??

1st December 2007, 00:24

What can fully be done to a vtr engine...

i kno manifold, filters and such

but what about throttle boddies, cams, etc... can they all be done??

what sorta bhp can u push them out to???

1st December 2007, 00:33

If you had say cams, manifold, exhaust, induction kit and a remap then you are looking at around 120-125 bhp so you can definetely get some decent gains without spending a vast amount of money.

1st December 2007, 00:36

anything can be done. depends on £££

TBs yes, power depends on cam profile etc...

1st December 2007, 00:37

how much would the cams set me back and that u recon?? is it worth spending good money on decent parts instead of a cheap job?? will this ruin the engine aswell?? life expectancy out of the engine??

1st December 2007, 00:37

turbo it mate

theres some one on here thats done it and the figures are amazing

1st December 2007, 00:42

imo i dont think that tuning the 8v to hight spec is cost effective.

hence why i go 16v

1st December 2007, 00:44

yea m8, there was one on ebay not long ago i was really intrested in, but it looked more hastle than anything... parents wont let me go on there insurance for a vts eather

so looks like im sticking it out with the 8v for a while till i can afford!!! some nice looking turbos on ere tho

1st December 2007, 00:47

a tuned 8v will cost as much as a 16v.

if ur not intending on telling the insurance ur an idiot

1st December 2007, 00:48

lets just hope i dont crash.. would u declair everything then??

1st December 2007, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Star

lets just hope i dont crash.. would u declair everything then??

erm yes.

if you crashed into me with no insurance id sue ur ass off.

as ur uninsured if you are not fully declaired

1st December 2007, 00:51

whats the point in even having insurance if you're only going to void it by not telling your insurer of modifications?

1st December 2007, 00:52

lol na i ent that stupid.. i would declair with mods like that, i wouldent wanna loose out just as much as the person i crashed into!

1st December 2007, 10:02

it'll be cheaper to just insure the vts then if your going for a hispec vtr engine. it will be a lot cheaper to do aswell.

if you cant afford to insure it then dont do it.

1st December 2007, 16:51

The VTR is worth turning if ya dont have a VTS, to buy a decent VTS engine and then to get it fitted is gonna cost ya 1k+ probebly, and at the moment fidning a vts engine is hard especially ph1, a full system, filter cam and re-map isnt going to cost you much more than that and could possibly get you near 120 i would think, then you could save for TB's but why not buy some 4 pots, decent buckets, harnesses and make a nice track toy..

a TB's 8v are fast 160+ BHP and instant throttle responce.

I want a vts if i cant find one on a strict budget ill get a vtr instead and do as above, im even thinking about a flat arched 1360 cc at the moment, but i get easily excited

1st December 2007, 16:59

compound charge or twin turbo?

1st December 2007, 19:58

My VTR does 120 and thats standard! Only a stainless steel exhaust.

1st December 2007, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

My VTR does 120 and thats standard! Only a stainless steel exhaust.

ha ha ha ha ha get out the clouds.

1st December 2007, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

My VTR does 120 and thats standard! Only a stainless steel exhaust.

ive managed to push mine over about a mile of motorway to just over 110 and that is with a de-cat , induction kit , performance exhaust

120 is a bit high for standard

1st December 2007, 21:25

Yeah i know that is with just me in the car though.

1st December 2007, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by featherz

a full system, filter cam and re-map isnt going to cost you much more than that and could possibly get you near 120 i would think,

you think very wrongly.

2nd December 2007, 15:13

remap £450 then buying a cam. and if you cant do an engine swap yourself i doubt you'll be able to fit the cam yoursefl so you'll need to pay someone to do that. plus the other bits like timing belt that you'll be replacing. i would deffo go for a 16v engine. + its a more fun engine to drive.

2nd December 2007, 15:20

i can see why people love the 16v engines.. they can be highly tuned and power to money ratio can't really be beaten for the French hatchbacks.

but you dont have to be a sheep. theres a girl called beck who has put a VTR engine in the roland garrous (sp?) and suspercharged it.. not something you see everyday!

im also going down the 8v route.. but i have my own reasons.

2nd December 2007, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

My VTR does 120 and thats standard! Only a stainless steel exhaust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djrem

ha ha ha ha ha get out the clouds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berg

ive managed to push mine over about a mile of motorway to just over 110 and that is with a de-cat , induction kit , performance exhaust

120 is a bit high for standard

Ive got a standard VTR, and ive had 118 out of it. I then ran out of road, but there was a steady increase. Already though 118 is more than you lot seem to expect out of a VTR stock.

Why was I able to hit this speed then? No I wasn't at 7k rpm either. Also with one other person in the car.

2nd December 2007, 15:27

its not about being a sheep. its about not wasting money. i dont see why you wnat to spend over 1k tuning an 8v to the power of a standard 16v????

2nd December 2007, 15:28

Maybe there was a slight incline in the road?

2nd December 2007, 15:30

speedos arent accurate and vtr's dont rev to 7k either.

2nd December 2007, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

its not about being a sheep. its about not wasting money. i dont see why you wnat to spend over 1k tuning an 8v to the power of a standard 16v????

Cos we couldn't/didn't want to afford a VTS and its group 13 insurance

2nd December 2007, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

its not about being a sheep. its about not wasting money. i dont see why you wnat to spend over 1k tuning an 8v to the power of a standard 16v????

here here.

as for the roland garros, supercharged 8vs are good, but not as powerful as a 16v one.

and if ur supercharging an engine ur not only spending 1 or 2 k.

2nd December 2007, 15:48

when you say you wont be able to afford to insure a vts. have you ahd any quotes on a cammed/throttlebodied or supercharged vtr?

2nd December 2007, 15:49

TBH i don't really want that. I jst want my Saxo for just over a year until i get my RX-8

2nd December 2007, 15:54

2nd December 2007, 15:58

In the mean time i plan to have as much fun as i can with the Sax just in case ther RX-8 dream doesn't happen

2nd December 2007, 15:59

or you could get a lower mileage c2vtr/gt/vts engine and use saxo vts loom/inlet /ecu etc. would leave you with a newer engine.

2nd December 2007, 16:01

At pres the VTR has only done 46000 and its a lot of trouble and money changing to a VTS but mad love and nuff props for doing it lol

2nd December 2007, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Cos we couldn't/didn't want to afford a VTS and its group 13 insurance

but then insurance on that would be more than vts

newbs

2nd December 2007, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

speedos arent accurate and vtr's dont rev to 7k either.

Fair do's on the speedo. I'll get the GPS out next time, see what Im really doing.

Anyway, on topic with the thread, everyone can say "Get the VTS, instead of tuning a VTR" then It goes to, "get a 2.0 Civic (or whatever) instead of tuning a VTS". ect ect. You know how the rest goes.

The fact is, its fun to tune and mod your own car, and learn along the way, rather than buying something faster already, and leaving it stock.

I know a tuned VTR will be close to a VTS stock, but yeah It will be fun owning a VTS over a tuned VTR to begin with, but after the intial novelty wears off, and you wnat to start modding & tuning but you cant afford it? Where's the fun then? 1 year of stock driving getting even more & more bored that you cant mod because of the insurance price.

BHP:£ ratios aint the end of the topic over whats worth owning ya know. There's alot more to It.

Anyway, thats my point, I know I can ramble a bit

2nd December 2007, 16:08

i dont understand that last bit

2nd December 2007, 16:09

Ah but i'll be the magic age of 25 and have a years no claims when i want the RX-8

2nd December 2007, 16:10

that wasnt meant for you post, was about the mad love and nuff pros

be honest though, if yo've got a vtr. and then decide you wnat to tune it past the exhaust and filter stage. then imho its a lot better value for maney putting a 16v in.

2nd December 2007, 16:11

1 years no claims?> and you expect to be able to get insured on an rx-8 for penuts? do you work for a lube company?

2nd December 2007, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom_sufc

I know a tuned VTR will be close to a VTS stock,

only if you put the money into a vtr which you could get a 16v for.

you wont get 120bhp out of a vtr on breathing mods alone.

2nd December 2007, 16:16

tbh if you do the manifold / full system, induction kit and get it mapped i reckon you could get 120bhp from a VTR

Nigel from Angel Tuning said they can get 9-10bhp extra out of a VTR, and thats totally standard. So with the full breathing mods and then a map i don't see why it couldn't be achieved.

A lot of people on here seem to go on about how a map is pointless unless you cam it... Not true imo.

YES camming it will get you much better gains if you're having it mapped but there was a guy on here recently who had simply had it mapped and said the way it pulled in the higher gears was miles better... and that was without cams.

2nd December 2007, 16:18

how come some mark2 VTRs have done 130ish mph?... im confused you guys are sayin maximum it can do is 110? ive got a VTR by the way...

2nd December 2007, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by alextoffie

tbh if you do the manifold / full system, induction kit and get it mapped i reckon you could get 120bhp from a VTR

Nigel from Angel Tuning said they can get 9-10bhp extra out of a VTR, and thats totally standard. So with the full breathing mods and then a map i don't see why it couldn't be achieved.

A lot of people on here seem to go on about how a map is pointless unless you cam it... Not true imo.

YES camming it will get you much better gains if you're having it mapped but there was a guy on here recently who had simply had it mapped and said the way it pulled in the higher gears was miles better... and that was without cams.

and the cost of a map makes mapping on a very standard engine a very cost ineffective modification.

2nd December 2007, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrapid

how come some mark2 VTRs have done 130ish mph?... im confused you guys are sayin maximum it can do is 110? ive got a VTR by the way...

Standard a Mk2 VTR won't do 130mph... I think the "official" figures say it'll do 120 though...

2nd December 2007, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

and the cost of a map makes mapping on a very standard engine a very cost ineffective modification.

I see figures ranging between £300-500 for a map thrown around on here. Angel Tuning will do it for £235.

On their website it says it'll add 10bhp / 11lb/ft torque... How many other mods for £235 will add 10bhp? And bearing in mind thats to a totally standard car. A BMC air filter alone will set you back nearly that amount!

2nd December 2007, 16:23

anel tuning is just a generic map isnt it? not actually mapped.

theres no point in mapping for just breathing mods as the lambda and other sensors can adapt for small changes like that.

and like you said, a lad 'said on the internet' that his car was miles faster.

2nd December 2007, 16:24

lol, what happend there?

2nd December 2007, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by alextoffie

I see figures ranging between £300-500 for a map thrown around on here. Angel Tuning will do it for £235.

On their website it says it'll add 10bhp / 11lb/ft torque... How many other mods for £235 will add 10bhp? And bearing in mind thats to a totally standard car. A BMC air filter alone will set you back nearly that amount!

and bmc claim that the kit gives 10bhp etc... yet in the real world doesnt.

unless angel tuning remap the ecu on a rolling road/dyno its a generic map and isnt worth doing in many many engine tuners opinions.

2nd December 2007, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

and like you said, a lad 'said on the internet' that his car was miles faster.

It was someone off here i just can't remember who.

Angel Tuning will do the map to suit whatever you need... If you tell them you've modded it etc beforehand, they'll take that into account. They've got a very good reputation, i've got a few mates who've used them before and been very happy. I'm sure people on here have used them before too, as i've seen them mentioned.

2nd December 2007, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by alextoffie

It was someone off here i just can't remember who.

Angel Tuning will do the map to suit whatever you need... If you tell them you've modded it etc beforehand, they'll take that into account.

so they are creating the map before theyve even seen the car then

2nd December 2007, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

so they are creating the map before theyve even seen the car then

No, i said they'd take that into account.

I don't work for them, all i know is they come to wherever you are and spend time working on the map.

When my mate had his done they were with him for about 5-6 hours getting everything right... which would suggest to me that it isn't a generic map that they simply whack onto your ECU.

If you want your car rolling roaded before / after they arrange it with a place nearest to you and do it.

http://www.angeltuning.co.uk/engine-...1242%2016v.pdf

That is from tuning a 1.2 16v Punto... 0-60 standard 12.51 - after a map 11.32s. Yes its still a slow car afterwards but imo knocking over a second off the 0-60 from a 1.2 16v Punto is pretty impressive.

There is a 206 Hdi they did on there (yes obviously diesels are best for maps) that did an 11.2s 0-60 before and an 8.8 afterwards.

2nd December 2007, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by alextoffie

No, i said they'd take that into account.

I don't work for them, all i know is they come to wherever you are and spend time working on the map.

When my mate had his done they were with him for about 5-6 hours getting everything right... which would suggest to me that it isn't a generic map that they simply whack onto your ECU.

If you want your car rolling roaded before / after they arrange it with a place nearest to you and do it.

http://www.angeltuning.co.uk/engine-...1242%2016v.pdf

That is from tuning a 1.2 16v Punto... 0-60 standard 12.51 - after a map 11.32s. Yes its still a slow car afterwards but imo knocking over a second off the 0-60 from a 1.2 16v Punto is pretty impressive.

There is a 206 Hdi they did on there (yes obviously diesels are best for maps) that did an 11.2s 0-60 before and an 8.8 afterwards.

so they arrange a before and after but dont adjust the map and fueling accordingly on a rolling road? if youve had a mate had it did they take the car out on the road, as some people will do on the road mapping, but the problem with this is you cant keep the car at set load points to help with creating the best map.

2nd December 2007, 16:44

my mate has his TT done by them and all he got wasa chip fitted.

unless they use a wideband and a laptop and map it on the road then its just a generic chip.

2nd December 2007, 16:47

I'm not sure the full details of what happened when he had it done, i'd have to ask him... As you can see from the figures though the maps they do obviously work. They seem to have a very good reputation anyway.

The debate here though is i do believe a proper map with full breathing mods could get 115-120bhp out of a VTR... Maybe i'll have to do it myself and see lol

No doubt the same mods to a VTS would get even more out... But its the same old same old imo.. Its pretty obvious doing it to a VTS is gonna get more BHP out of the engine. Just as doing it to a 1.8 16v would get more.. etc etc.

EDIT: You say he just got a chip fitted? I know they defo used a laptop when they were doing my mates... He said nothing about a chip. Getting a diff chip isn't a remap is it? I thought remapping was when they worked on your existing ECU.

2nd December 2007, 16:52

it still needs to be chipped to map it otherwise thay cant access the ecu.

2nd December 2007, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

only if you put the money into a vtr which you could get a 16v for.

you wont get 120bhp out of a vtr on breathing mods alone.

I was meaning insurance costs, not BHP

2nd December 2007, 20:08

my mate reckons he had decat full breathing mods and piper 285 cam kit with remap and got 135bhp on a vtr.

2nd December 2007, 20:11

the difference between 16v and 8v seem to feels like a very similar difference to having a 2stroke or 4 stroke bike. the driving characteristics anyway are almost identical.

2nd December 2007, 21:16

2 stroke being the 16v and the 4 stroke being the 8v i take it??

Well i'd go 2 stroke all the way

2nd December 2007, 21:32

i would say the driving characteristics in 4 and 2 strokes are different. same as 16v and 8v.

i've had 163bhp on a standard engine before aswell. dont always beleive what the rollers say.

16v and 2 strokes are higher revving.

2nd December 2007, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berg

ive managed to push mine over about a mile of motorway to just over 110 and that is with a de-cat , induction kit , performance exhaust

120 is a bit high for standard

By motorway you obviously mean a long private road

2nd December 2007, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

you think very wrongly.

Sorry aint been on here for a few days but tell me how im wrong? so a full exhaust meaning (manifold,decat, and system), a 285 cam, enclosed filter.. will not see you to near 120 (bearing in mind 115 is near 120

) surely that is possible? thats like saying the vts wont make 135 with them modifications surely?

3rd December 2007, 00:08

Quote:

Sorry aint been on here for a few days but tell me how im wrong? so a full exhaust meaning (manifold,decat, and system), a 285 cam, enclosed filter.. will not see you to near 120 (bearing in mind 115 is near 120 ) surely that is possible? thats like saying the vts wont make 135 with them modifications surely?

A Vtr with those mods will make about 120bhp mapped of course.