newmans ph3 fitted

10th December 2007, 16:12

hi guys as most people are aware theres a massive group buy going on at the moment on newmans cams

iv had a set of ph3 sat under my bed now for about 6 weeks on friday i got them fitted we set them to the standard timming marks an the car started but was ticking over more up an down than a tarts knickers

so after abit of adjustment on the pulleys ie retard the inlet an advance the exhaust not much the tick over very nice at 900rpm i have done about 100 miles an the car not stalled or missed once now i know the common thing is to take it straight to chip wizzard an get a remap but the car pulls so strong between 5000rpm an 7000rpm im not sure

this coming saturday i am at chip wizzard doing a rolling road day with the rallye reg so should be interesting to c what figures i get ha ha

10th December 2007, 16:13

keep us posted mate, will be good to see what you end up pulling on the rollers.

what other mods have you got?

will be nice to see the gains and graphs etc.

10th December 2007, 16:21

iv got ported =polished an skimmed head k-n apollo induction kit miltek 4-1 s/s manifiold magnex single box with dacat pipe in s/s valeo paddle clutch uprated head gasket an timming belt an im running a 106s1 rallye gearbox

10th December 2007, 16:22

for them to be timed up to newmans timing marks you should have put a DTI on top of the lifters. you will have to advance inlet, retard echaust to get correct lift at TDC.
i would still get it mapped though.

10th December 2007, 16:30

so will i be done on power alot because iv backed the inlet off an advanced the exhaust

10th December 2007, 16:33

yeah a bit.to get more lift on the inlet you need to advance it, and retard ex.
thats why you need it remapped. so you can run the correct timing and keep the car driveable. wayne raises the tickover slightly.you'll prob be making peak power on or just after the standard rpm limit with correct timing. you'll get this raised to 7.8k aswell.

10th December 2007, 16:44

yep i c what ur saying thanks mate the limiter is raised to 7800rpm allready

10th December 2007, 16:45

very much interested to hear about how this does

10th December 2007, 16:46

ha ha not as interested as me ha ha

10th December 2007, 17:30

haha i bet u r mate, keep us all updated as like to know im buying cams that do a good job

10th December 2007, 17:31

Now this i want to watch carefully

Been waiting ages for some one to get them in and mapped

Hope you get good figures bud

10th December 2007, 17:33

so do i lol, hope its all good

10th December 2007, 17:35

Wow, can these little beasts take 7.8k on standard internals?

10th December 2007, 17:36

i predict 153bhp at the fly
place your bets!

^^^^ i wont be reving to that there is no need faster to change sooner imo

you need to let us know how it feels to drive? nice and smooth etc etc much info as possilbe, your not allowed to put it is well mint init or something along those lines lmao

10th December 2007, 17:36

ha ha im going to chip wizzard this satday mate not for a mapping just with rallye reg think theres 10 ov us going so i will c what ph3s show with out mapping

10th December 2007, 17:39

good lad

10th December 2007, 17:42

i had it on rollers at motorscoop in north allerton in north yorks an it showed 147.8bhp at flywheel that was a few weeks ago now i got the cams in an changed from an open pipercross filter to a k=n enclosed apollo that i won at k=n research an development day last wednesday woo

10th December 2007, 17:50

Will be very interesting to see your new results!

What mileage is your car on at the moment?

10th December 2007, 17:54

Nice one m8, should be good to see what you are pulling! All the best!

10th December 2007, 17:56

[QUOTE=Steve_VTS;1691326]
place your bets!

i predict 153bhp at the fly
AliC- 162BHP at the fly

10th December 2007, 17:59

place your bets!

Steve_VTS - 153bhp at the fly
AliC- 162BHP at the fly
Bake -152BHP at the fly

10th December 2007, 18:28

thats interesting, i didnt no you could get them to run without a re map.

looking forward to the r/r info

10th December 2007, 18:34

[QUOTE=AliC;1691422]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_VTS

place your bets!

i predict 153bhp at the fly
AliC- 162BHP at the fly

it wont make that

10th December 2007, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bake

place your bets!

Steve_VTS - 153bhp at the fly
AliC- 162BHP at the fly
Bake -152BHP at the fly

you cant go one below thats cheating

bellys only made 149 with ph3's

10th December 2007, 18:38

well its running ha ha i might be down on power a bit as i had to mess with the timming abit to get it to tick over it allways pulled very strong before between 5000rpm an 7000rpm as iv had the head ported an polished but went out in it today an the roads were dry an it pulled even stonger im also running a s1 rallye box so the car is lower geared any way but felt gud so who knows

10th December 2007, 19:32

high 150s imo. and make it at around 7.4k rpm

10th December 2007, 20:05

cheers guys 1 had 123 flb ft torque at the flywheel before the cams so hopefull that will go up abit aswell

10th December 2007, 20:07

when bronk had my vts, he got it r'roaded and its made like 151bhp...with no cams, just ported polished and chipped!

so its anyone guess what it makes!

10th December 2007, 20:52

As it's already got some headwork, I'm going to say 157.8 bhp

Remember, having a good idle does not mean you have the timing set for optimum power. As you're on standard inlet, expect a shyte idle if you want maximum power.

10th December 2007, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturn_Saxo

when bronk had my vts, he got it r'roaded and its made like 151bhp...with no cams, just ported polished and chipped!

so its anyone guess what it makes!

LOL. Not likely. Those rollers would have been very inaccurate for sure.

10th December 2007, 21:01

im guessing 158bhp
also guys if all goes well ill be in on the group buy aswell for these ph3's.

10th December 2007, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

im guessing 158bhp
also guys if all goes well ill be in on the group buy aswell for these ph3's.

Copy cat...

10th December 2007, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Copy cat...

lol,cant help but think your was going to be very close,
i suppose it depend on quality of headwork and mapping.
get a graph up as peak power is NOT everything so we will be able to see how good the torque curves are.

10th December 2007, 21:39

Yeah mate, agree, there's plenty of factors involved. That's why I had to get my "scientific" calculator out, which gave me a max BHP figure of 157.8

708s always seem to make 153 BHP on Wayne's rollers / mapping. I don't think the Newmans camshafts have proven as effective. Well, I don't think we have anough evidence yet, but there's nothing to prove otherwise really. So I've factored in a few other things, and I reckon I'm on the money.

lol

11th December 2007, 09:29

i would like this to turn out well as i'm in the groupbuy (well organising), hopefully they show good gains and the graphs show a good spread of torque and bhp.

11th December 2007, 09:33

Hmm, high lift / duration cams and good torque spread don't belong in the same sentance.

11th December 2007, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Hmm, high lift / duration cams and good torque spread don't belong in the same sentance.

ok, not good torque spread, but some good torque

11th December 2007, 09:58

Quote:

708s always seem to make 153 BHP on Wayne's rollers / mapping. I don't think the Newmans camshafts have proven as effective. Well, I don't think we have anough evidence yet, but there's nothing to prove otherwise really. So I've factored in a few other things, and I reckon I'm on the money. lol

Hence why you should watch this one carefully

11th December 2007, 10:03

Eyes peeled matey.

11th December 2007, 10:18

I think these will give some good results !!! As they are slightly wilder then 708's, I presume they'll make make torque quite high up the rev range.

11th December 2007, 13:32

ha ha now im shitting it ur all watching me thanks for all the comments an i know a good tick over dont mean there set for max power but i had to back the inlet off abit an advance the exhuast to got them to tick over maybe i could have messed abit longer but the thing i wanna find out is what they will make with out having the ecu remapped then when i do get it mapped we can all c what bhp u get for a 500 quid remap im sure alot of people will be very interested in that

11th December 2007, 13:43

Fair enough chap, but the re-map isn't only about max BHP. It's about driveability too. If you get a good re-map, it will be a world of difference.

11th December 2007, 14:01

yep i know mate iv had this car for 3 years now an done loads of quater mile sprints an track days the car is fully stripped so its never going to be the nice standard vts it was 3 years ago but i know bhp is not the bee all an end all but i will get it mapped im sure just wanna see what it shows on waynes rollers thanks for ur advice fella

11th December 2007, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

I think these will give some good results !!! As they are slightly wilder then 708's, I presume they'll make make torque quite high up the rev range.

by 0.15mm and 2 degrees?

11th December 2007, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by andywiddss1

yep i know mate iv had this car for 3 years now an done loads of quater mile sprints an track days the car is fully stripped so its never going to be the nice standard vts it was 3 years ago but i know bhp is not the bee all an end all but i will get it mapped im sure just wanna see what it shows on waynes rollers thanks for ur advice fella

Yes, I'm interested too. The performance camshafts will demand more fuel, more than the lambda can signal to the ECU. The re-map WILL give a lot more power, I promise. Can't wait to see though!

Also, the delivery will be so much better. You'll get a much smoother pickup. Wayne will cold start it a couple of times too, and he does a lot of work to get it to idle better.

11th December 2007, 15:13

ha ha if i had the money i would be there mate but 500 quid is alot to spend just before christmas an before everybody throws shit at me saying why did i put them in if i havent got the money to have them mapped like i said before then i can c the difference between a mapped car an a un mapped one he he

11th December 2007, 15:19

So are you going to get your cam timing tweaked on the rollers? Or did you do that already? I can't remember... And then you are going to have a quick power run, correct?

11th December 2007, 15:28

its a rolling road day thats run by the rallye register will be about 10 cars there i have adjusted the timming so it ticks over without stalling we have been told by wayne we will get about 3 runs each cost me 30quid so not loads of money heres the link nhttp://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2008/showthread.php?t=46593ot a member or rallye register

11th December 2007, 15:30

AH, so you don't live to far from Wayne then? That's handy.

11th December 2007, 15:31

its a rolling road day thats run by the rallye register will be about 10 cars there i have adjusted the timming so it ticks over without stalling we have been told by wayne we will get about 3 runs each cost me 30quid so not loads of money heres the linkwww.106rallyeforum.com/forum2008/showthread.php?t=46593

11th December 2007, 15:34

takes me about 40mins to get to waynes sorry link dont work ha ha but u get the idea mate

11th December 2007, 15:43

Be interesting im saying 146bhp

11th December 2007, 16:06

i had it on rollers at motorscoop in north allerton in north yorks an it showed 147.8bhp at flywheel that was a few weeks ago now i got the cams in an changed from an open pipercross filter to a k=n enclosed apollo so i wouldnt be to happy with 146 bhp an be for u say it yes i know its different rollers but there was 10 of us there an the rollers gave true figures but who knows ha ha

11th December 2007, 22:36

i ran my car for 6 months with my cams in unmapped.
i have been on motorscopes rollers and had my car mapped at waynes and waynes showed the higher pwoer figure with the same setup.

150hp @ motorscope
153hp @ waynes

11th December 2007, 23:37

LOL! Everyone seems to get 153 on Wayne's rollers! Amazing. Andy, that seems very high for just a few small mods. Most would aim for around a genuine 150 - 155 with camshafts like 708s / PH3s + a good re-map.

12th December 2007, 10:58

I had 146bhp with bmc, raceland, 708's and shitty powerflow back in the day!! That was on Jamsports rollers... When is the rolling road then?

12th December 2007, 14:10

rolling road day this satday all i can do is put it on the rollers an see what it shows i see most people that run 708 an a remap an the usuall bits manifold exhaust decat enclosed filter ect get about 150bhp but not many people have the headwork done aswell if it only shows 146bhp on the rollers then so be it i will not be hanging my self on new years eve just because of it ha ha

12th December 2007, 14:12

Should be more than that, but it hasn't been mapped right? So don't be too worried about the results until that's done. Should be close to 160 after the map on Wayne's rollers.

12th December 2007, 14:19

160 would be nice carnt wait for next year just to see what it will do quater mile in ha ha u had urs on rollers then toad

12th December 2007, 15:09

Many time matey.

12th December 2007, 19:14

whats urs putting out then mate

12th December 2007, 20:19

will be good to see the out come fella, as our cars have been running similar times all year, i'm going to have a mess about with the rallye over the winter. i can't have you showing me up next year can i.

12th December 2007, 20:20

oh and another pic i found of our cars

12th December 2007, 20:46

yep been a gud year mate cant wait to do donnington next year in the dry again see u got ur name down for sum newmans ph4

12th December 2007, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by andywiddss1

whats urs putting out then mate

Varies from RR to RR. I've had as low as 150 and as high as 170.

13th December 2007, 04:28

Great thread this! Theres a chunk of us getting these Phase 3's in the group buy, and tbh many of us don't know much about them as the Catcam 708s seem to hog the spotlight around here. Any info is good info on these cams, driverability and overall performance, and what it makes on the rollers should be interesting too. With your mods mate I should think that around 160 should be a fair estimate. Look forward to the update, as I'm sure we all are.

13th December 2007, 15:43

yeah i'm hoping he gets arround 155 then improve to 165 with a good re-map, should be a good year next year plenty of track days etc, i just hope i can get round to doing all i want to on my car.

13th December 2007, 15:45

NICE TO SEE another make thrown into the mix

Bloody sick of hearing of cat cams now tbh

13th December 2007, 16:19

ricky with 155 -165bhp think we will be evenly matched again next year fella

13th December 2007, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by andywiddss1

ricky with 155 -165bhp think we will be evenly matched again next year fella

i hope so it makes it more fun when its as close as we have been.

13th December 2007, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

NICE TO SEE another make thrown into the mix

Bloody sick of hearing of cat cams now tbh

i thought the same and went for some piper 285's but turned out i got fu*ked over by some tw*t.

13th December 2007, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

NICE TO SEE another make thrown into the mix

Bloody sick of hearing of cat cams now tbh

Yes i agree haha.

I used Pipers to be abit different

13th December 2007, 17:04

col you had yours on the rollers?

14th December 2007, 23:46

good luck for tomorrow fella

15th December 2007, 16:00

hi guys car made 157.4 bhp will put printout up latter im happy with that to say i set the cams to tick over spent 15mins talking to wayne at end of day an he sed that it was a good spread or power right through the mid range an top end he also said that a remap would only get me another few bhp

15th December 2007, 16:06

thats some good news mate and congrats.

i'm sure me and the others in the newman group buy would be pleased with similar figures.

15th December 2007, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICKYP-RPM

col you had yours on the rollers?

Not yet mate! lol. My car got mapped on the road so i have no idea of power.

And that 157 is a really good figure!

15th December 2007, 16:08

nice figures mate, 160+ with a remap?

15th December 2007, 16:09

I'd be pleased with those figures !!

15th December 2007, 16:38

Newman cams are the best outhere

15th December 2007, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by andywiddss1

hi guys car made 157.4 bhp will put printout up latter im happy with that to say i set the cams to tick over spent 15mins talking to wayne at end of day an he sed that it was a good spread or power right through the mid range an top end he also said that a remap would only get me another few bhp

Excellent. So you've already got some sort of map done then?

15th December 2007, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

As it's already got some headwork, I'm going to say 157.8 bhp

Remember, having a good idle does not mean you have the timing set for optimum power. As you're on standard inlet, expect a shyte idle if you want maximum power.

Look above! I was off by about 0.4 BHP! Just call me King Toaduss.

15th December 2007, 16:55

no mate its on standard ecu an its got a cheap chip in it so the rev limiters at 7900rpm nice one king u was only 0.4bhp out ha ha wayne said if i ported an polished the throttle body it would show 160bhp he also said that i would not gain very much at all from having it mapped as the spread of power was very good with no flat spots so im happy

15th December 2007, 17:15

That's excellent news chap. I'm slightly puzzled by the map situation though to say the very least.

15th December 2007, 19:16

whats there to be puzzled about its on the standard ecu no remap an it showed 157.4 bhp if u read the start of the thread i did say i was taking it unmapped an wayne sed that by remapping it i would not gain a great deal for the people who want to have a remap thats there option but im happy with 157bhp

15th December 2007, 20:50

damn you toad (0.4 off,i thought id beat you).

very very good results there matey, many people will be as happy as you lol.
get the graph up so we can have a butchers.
are you going to tune it any more?im on the list for these cams so with these a kms standalone,and headwork i should see 160bhp+ waahhooo

15th December 2007, 20:56

where did it make peak power at? very good results for it being unmapped. what chip is in your ecu if your limiters at 7.8k?

15th December 2007, 21:14

peak power was at 7300rpm an u will all slag me to fcuk but its running a superchip was programed at well lane turbo but i asked them to take the limiter off totally but its set to 7800 rpm wayne said that after 8100rpm the ecu will shut down think he was shocked at the bhp it showed unmapped

15th December 2007, 21:32

you will prob snap the standard rod bolts aswell if your revving them over 8k

tbh, my car drove better/smoother with a superchip and 708s than it did after it was mapped.

15th December 2007, 21:50

there u go then fella but always change at 7500rpm so never go to 8100rpm happy with what it showed today

15th December 2007, 23:41

very good result fella, i need to get mine sorted now so we can play again next year

15th December 2007, 23:59

157bhp and no remap! thats mint

id love that sorta power without a map, as itll save alot of cash hehe

16th December 2007, 00:39

Good results mate!

16th December 2007, 01:06

really pleased to hear results like this

16th December 2007, 14:02

well done matey

newmans cams seem to be very similar to cat cams, didnt believe all the hype, people giving the old catcams are far better.

they are very close with regards to power gains.

sounds like nemmans cams will be a good idea

16th December 2007, 15:15

belly made 151.1 today with his ph3s, shitty raceland manifold, gmc btb exhaust and raceland induction kit.

just for everyones info

16th December 2007, 15:20

what does you car drive and idle like though mate?

16th December 2007, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_VTS

belly made 151.1 today with his ph3s, shitty raceland manifold, gmc btb exhaust and raceland induction kit.

just for everyones info

Map / no map? Who's rollers?

16th December 2007, 16:32

151.9 stevey

lol

got 148 when i was there 4 months ago. so the shitty duplex backbox might of been the problem

16th December 2007, 16:35

is that 151.9 with a remap

16th December 2007, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by andywiddss1

is that 151.9 with a remap

aye, thats why yours is weird lol. superchips might not be that bad afterall

16th December 2007, 16:40

ha ha so whats the limiter set at on yours mate

16th December 2007, 17:07

you not think your stage 4 head could be overkill for your spec engine?

16th December 2007, 17:15

i think the head on ur car is ruining it belly

16th December 2007, 18:38

I'm running a big valve head. It will compliment the bodies very nicely!

16th December 2007, 19:03

doesnt 151bhp sound abit rubbish for the spec that belly has? id be abit dissapointed if thats what mine came back like..

16th December 2007, 19:18

it's possible the Racelnad could be causing issues. 151 BHP isn't rubbish at all IMO. There's so many over inflated figures going about it's madness.

From what I've see in the past, people who would run jenvey bodies with the likes of piper 285 cams + standalone and the like, would normally make around the 165 BHP mark. So 151 with just cams and a map is pretty good I'll say. IMHO, with the bigger valve head, I would expect Belly to be around the 160 BHP, so there's a chance something isn't quite spot on.

16th December 2007, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

it's possible the Racelnad could be causing issues. 151 BHP isn't rubbish at all IMO. There's so many over inflated figures going about it's madness.

From what I've see in the past, people who would run jenvey bodies with the likes of piper 285 cams + standalone and the like, would normally make around the 165 BHP mark. So 151 with just cams and a map is pretty good I'll say. IMHO, with the bigger valve head, I would expect Belly to be around the 160 BHP, so there's a chance something isn't quite spot on.

its only the exhaust outlets that have been modified on the head, and that raceland manifold will be doing no favours at all, told him to get a gmc btb manifold

16th December 2007, 19:28

theres been plenty of people seeing over 160bhp with the raceland,i agree its not the "best" manifold for big power.maybe try and find out who did the head.as most people who know about engines,the wrong person doing the head can seriously mess it up.

16th December 2007, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0t13

doesnt 151bhp sound abit rubbish for the spec that belly has? id be abit dissapointed if thats what mine came back like..

i thought 151 was quite good considering it was struggling to get over 148 last time

i agree tho, i should still have alot more bhp with the spec i have.

i suspect the big valve head since i got it for 300 lol

16th December 2007, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by belly_VTS

i thought 151 was quite good considering it was struggling to get over 148 last time

i agree tho, i should still have alot more bhp with the spec i have.

i suspect the big valve head since i got it for 300 lol

dont forget to get a btb manifold

16th December 2007, 20:18

If it's just the exit ports that have been widened, then it's not going to be using bigger valves, so it's not a "big valve" head. Ideally, you want the exit ports matched to the manifold for best results.

16th December 2007, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

If it's just the exit ports that have been widened, then it's not going to be using bigger valves, so it's not a "big valve" head. Ideally, you want the exit ports matched to the manifold for best results.

nar, i think what stevey ment was that the exhaust valves are bigger, but the inlet valves are standard size

16th December 2007, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by belly_VTS

nar, i think what stevey ment was that the exhaust valves are bigger, but the inlet valves are standard size

yeah thats what i meant, which is odd as the inlet should be the same, i rekon you should get the inlets done and see what the crack is!

16th December 2007, 20:37

Ok, in that case.........

You don't really need the inlet ports widened anyhow. If you get them done, it will be only a wee bit. Where did you get the head from?

16th December 2007, 21:44

arent you getting confused? exhaust valves are bigger than inlet on a standard head so you may just have a standard head.

16th December 2007, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

arent you getting confused? exhaust valves are bigger than inlet on a standard head so you may just have a standard head.

nar, i know there bigger than the inlets as standard. after i bought it i checked a code it had on the front of the head with hiflow and got all the info about it. ill get the head changed after xmas, see what difference it makes.

i got it off a bloke on here toad, forgot his username tho lol

17th December 2007, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

arent you getting confused? exhaust valves are bigger than inlet on a standard head so you may just have a standard head.

I'm fairly sure it's the other way around Williams.

17th December 2007, 09:27

I hope your head isn't causing the problem, as mine is from HiFlow too. I got my head purchased and installed by a chap who recently retired from being an F1 mechanic for Renault, and his contacts in the business recommended HiFlow to provide the head. He showed me the head before installing it and explained to me about the work which had been carried out... He seemed really happy with it, so I'm assuming I didn't get ripped.

17th December 2007, 10:55

i'm looking forward to getting my car sorted and on the rollers in the new year now.

17th December 2007, 12:25

shame u wasnt at chipwizzard with urs on saturday rickyp bens 306 rallye showed 184bhp he was happy ha ha

3rd January 2008, 13:52

post up the graph andy....

3rd January 2008, 16:56

30th January 2008, 09:56

I've seen 190bhp with a raceland manifold so I doubt thats your problem.

What work has the Gti6 had to achieve 184bhp?