turbo-ing vtr

1. Steve1255 L-plater Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 83 Saxo vtr '97'

   #1 15th December 2007, 14:51

   Hey, lookin into fittin a turbo onto my 97 vtr. ive heard ppl sayin tht you can fit some turbos like a t2 or mayb a t25 without changing pistons and other expensive parts. is this true??
   Ps is fittin a turbo a VERY hard job?? i have a mechanical mind, and im not scared of tryin it myself. but dont want t screw up my saxo...
   any help wud b gr8 cheerz
2. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #2 15th December 2007, 14:57

   you can run any turbo you want on standard pistons. its the boost you run that will cause the problems. as the standard pistons aren't forged i would change to some forged pistons to cope with teh heat better. and if your going to run a decent amount of boost get some low comps. in theory turboing isnt hard to fit all the parts. its the setting up and getting it running right thats the hard bit. also if your using 2nd hand parts you may find out you've bought some nobbed stuff.
3. Steve1255 L-plater Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 83 Saxo vtr '97'

   #3 15th December 2007, 15:00

   alright so if i was to fit the turbo myself, then ask a garage to set it up. how much do u think im we're talkin? and how much is a set of forged pistons den? sounds like i could do with some.
4. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #4 15th December 2007, 15:09

   you couldnt take it to any normal garage. getting it mapped will probably cost £500+, the pistons will be £500ish aswell. i think thers a couple of people who have ran 10psi on standard pistons so it just depends how much power/boost you wnat. along with the engine parts you'll need and uprated clutch, GOOD suspension (not gmax or any other cheap shit) and some good brakes.
5. Steve1255 L-plater Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 83 Saxo vtr '97'

   #5 15th December 2007, 15:12

   okies cheerz, for the help bud
6. yorkie Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2005 flavalas of york United Kingdom (England) Posts: 8456 gen7 toyota celica

   #6 17th December 2007, 16:11

   good info maybe doing this myself
7. gd16 Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2003 Tayside Posts: 893 S/c VT!?

   #7 17th December 2007, 16:35

   Putting the charger on etc is the cheap and easy part. You've then got to make sure that the rest of the car can take the power and be reliable, and also you've got to find a way to safely manage the fuelling/ignition.
   
   It can be done on the cheap if you know what you're doing and can find the parts cheaply. However it can be very expensive as well if you're buying new and ensuring from the start that everything will be up to the job.
8. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #8 17th December 2007, 16:57

   imo you may aswell do it right 1st time. if your not wanting your car off the road too long buy a 2nd hand engine, even if its dead. just rebuild that using good parts that will reliably cope with the power your after.
9. yorkie Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2005 flavalas of york United Kingdom (England) Posts: 8456 gen7 toyota celica

   #9 17th December 2007, 20:50

   great info peeps i already one step ahead i waiting for a 2nd engine at mo off sumone
10. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #10 17th December 2007, 21:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by williamsvts you couldnt take it to any normal garage. getting it mapped will probably cost £500+, the pistons will be £500ish aswell. i think thers a couple of people who have ran 10psi on standard pistons so it just depends how much power/boost you wnat. along with the engine parts you'll need and uprated clutch, GOOD suspension (not gmax or any other cheap shit) and some good brakes.

    Wolz off here normally runs around 11psi on standard pistons etc trouble free.
    
    Although when i possibly start building my turbo engine with him i'll go for a set of forged. better to be safe than sorry.
11. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #11 17th December 2007, 21:04

    how long has he been running it like that for? heat will be his enemy after time. whats his compression ratio aswell?
12. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #12 17th December 2007, 21:08

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by williamsvts how long has he been running it like that for? heat will be his enemy after time. whats his compression ratio aswell?

    Wouldn't be able to tell you sorry mate.
    
    Just know from when i was speaking to him last night about turbo's that he hasn't got forged pistons.
    
    and normally runs around 11psi rather than the 5psi he is atm.
13. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #13 17th December 2007, 21:38

    i'm running 12 psi and having no problems at all. obviously over time bad things can happen. saying that, a tu engine can take a serious amount of stick. my mate has just put a turbo on his and his has done over 140,000 miles. and is still going well. u can run i think up to 8psi on standard compression. and i think around 14 psi on lower compression. if im wrong please correct me.
14. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #14 17th December 2007, 21:47

    have you had your afr checked and check for any det? what compression is yours?
15. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #15 17th December 2007, 21:53

    ive got an air fuel ratio gauge, runs quite sweet. i couldnt tell u the exact compression ratio coz i don't know.lol.
16. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #16 17th December 2007, 21:58

    if its just a cheapy gauge id either get a decent 1 or get it on the rollers to check its correct.
    rolling road sessoin would be better as then tehy can listen for it detonating.
    you dont really want to melt your pistons after you've put all the work and money into it.
17. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #17 17th December 2007, 22:03

    its not a cheap 1. and its goin on rollers end of jan. im not dumb when it comes to engines. i got it all sussed out dont worry
18. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #18 17th December 2007, 22:09

    Believe i need to put alot more research into turboing a engine before i start playing around.
    
    its alot more difficult than people think i believe.
19. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #19 17th December 2007, 22:15

    nah not that difficult. people on here just think it is, coz they dont know how to change the oil let alone put a turbo on it.lol. if u got the kno how. just go for it. thatsb wat i did
20. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #20 17th December 2007, 22:17

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by medz_vtrturbo nah not that difficult. people on here just think it is, coz they dont know how to change the oil let alone put a turbo on it.lol. if u got the kno how. just go for it. thatsb wat i did

    im not mechanically minded. but im learning lol!
    
    im still toying with engine ideas.
    
    but have wanted a turbo ever since driving Wolz car! boost is addictive.
    
    if i did it. id have a engine in the garage building that up.. as im running carbs atm.
21. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #21 17th December 2007, 22:21

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jackman im not mechanically minded. but im learning lol! im still toying with engine ideas. but have wanted a turbo ever since driving Wolz car! boost is addictive. if i did it. id have a engine in the garage building that up.. as im running carbs atm.

    i agree boost is very addictive.
22. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #22 17th December 2007, 22:35

    turbo manifold (or adapter plate down to angle the turbo at the right level)
    downpipe
    boostpipes
    Intercooler
    Bigger Injectors
    Boost Map Sensor
    STandalone ECU or dastek
    
    the above is just for a low boost setup 8psi ish, thats what I have but on 14psi 1.1 pistons have been fine for the last 3kmiles.
    
    adding to the above
    
    forged pistons
    turbo specific cam
    headwork
    forged rods
    rod bolts
    aquamist
    antilag
23. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #23 17th December 2007, 22:37

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush turbo manifold (or adapter plate down to angle the turbo at the right level) downpipe boostpipes Intercooler Bigger Injectors Boost Map Sensor STandalone ECU or dastek the above is just for a low boost setup 8psi ish, thats what I have but on 14psi 1.1 pistons have been fine for the last 3kmiles. adding to the above forged pistons turbo specific cam headwork forged rods rod bolts aquamist antilag

    thanks for starting my checklist.
    
    time to get ticking!
24. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #24 17th December 2007, 22:37

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush turbo manifold (or adapter plate down to angle the turbo at the right level) downpipe boostpipes Intercooler Bigger Injectors Boost Map Sensor STandalone ECU or dastek the above is just for a low boost setup 8psi ish, thats what I have but on 14psi 1.1 pistons have been fine for the last 3kmiles. adding to the above forged pistons turbo specific cam headwork forged rods rod bolts aquamist antilag

    am i right in thinking anti-lag fucks the turbo up??
25. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #25 17th December 2007, 22:45

    you need and anti-lag specific turbo, and it still shortens the life of the turbo.
26. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #26 17th December 2007, 22:48

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by williamsvts you need and anti-lag specific turbo, and it still shortens the life of the turbo.

    what do u mean by i need 1?
27. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #27 17th December 2007, 22:54

    i meant if you want antilag you need a turbo designed to be used with an antilag system.
28. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #28 17th December 2007, 22:58

    you never googled antilag? defo dont want that, some interesting videos on youtube
29. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #29 17th December 2007, 23:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Steve_VTS you never googled dirtyslag? defo want them, some interesting videos on youtube

    yes, many of times
30. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #30 17th December 2007, 23:01

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by williamsvts i meant if you want antilag you need a turbo designed to be used with an antilag system.

    i didnt say i wanted it.lol. i just said that i thought it fucked the turbo up
31. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #31 17th December 2007, 23:06

    yeah, i was saying that you need a specific antilag turbo to use it
32. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #32 17th December 2007, 23:17

    sorry m8. ive just clicked. for some reason i couldnt get my head round wat u were sayin.
33. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #33 17th December 2007, 23:29

    obviously need various pieces of silicone hosing and a atmo dv or a recirc
34. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #34 18th December 2007, 00:05

    ive heard you can use toilet roll tubes for boost pipes up to 10psi.........
35. gd16 Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2003 Tayside Posts: 893 S/c VT!?

    #35 18th December 2007, 19:50

    I've been running upto around 9psi for the past year+, on completly standard compression VTR engine no problems at all. However i'm only running it on standard compression as i plan on building another with forged internals for when this one goes pop.
    
    The TU engines seem capable of withstanding a lot of boost, but will obviously die over time. As long as they are set up correctly (fuelling) then the heat won't be too bad on them.
36. saxopod Newbie Joined: Dec 2007 mansfield Posts: 13 saxo vtr

    #36 20th December 2007, 10:09

    ayup folks apparently fitting 2 headgaskets can lower the comp to run a bit higher boost but ensure you dont get cheap gaskets !!
37. medz_vtrturbo Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 anglesey Posts: 1055 saxo vtr turbo

    #37 20th December 2007, 19:27

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by saxopod ayup folks apparently fitting 2 headgaskets can lower the comp to run a bit higher boost but ensure you dont get cheap gaskets !!

    we all know that
38. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #38 21st December 2007, 22:31

    2 headgaskets is shite tbh, decompression plates are borderline, If I am honest I would go for the thickest MLS repair HG you could get on that would lower the CR from the standard 10:2:1 or is 10:6:1 on a VTR iinto the 9s happily get in mapped on that compression on say 8psi all round will be better to drive as you wont be loosing so much low down driveability due to such a low comression.
39. boz Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2005 somewhere on this planet, doing something..... around northumberland or in the middle of the sea Posts: 8774 Mk2 VTS track mk1 turbo vts scooby engined 2CV

    #39 23rd December 2007, 01:31

    just get a kit from dp-engineering.
    
    by the time you get a decent turbo, manifold, downpipe, extra injectors and suitable piggy back unit. you will have spent a few quid, thats not to mention a really good clutch, brake and suspension setup.
    
    you can use decompression plates and run a higher boost pressure without any probs, but it needs to be set up right to avoid any detonation which kills the engine.
    
    here are the things i have and i am getting for my setup (as williams said, best to do it right first time)
    
    tubular manifold, down pipe and system
    t3 uprated turbo
    (2 t25 uprated turbos with t3/t25 adaptor plate incase of any misshaps lol)
    cat caams turbo cams
    bigger injectors
    alloy inlet manifold enclosure with possibility of 8 injectors
    forged low comp pistons
    forgled con rods and arp bolts
    oil coolers
    intercooler
    standalone engine managment with wideband sensor
    water injection
    launch control
    baffled sump
    atb diff
    283mm discs and 4pot calipers
    avo or billstien suspension
    much better gearbox and driveshafts
    
    and god knows how many things i have missed off my list!
    
    before the turbo is put on i will be taking the engine apart and fully reconditioning it from top to bottom.
    
    i have a shaed load of the above gear, still need to get some and i have been collecting it for a while now lol
40. dan-iow Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 130

    #40 23rd December 2007, 10:58

    iv though about turboing many times and then though against it but i do love boost so thinking about it again now haha. i have a 106 gti but i was thinking of buying a cheap vtr as a project to get on with for next summer time!!
    
    can do all the work myself as im a mechanic but how much are we looking for all the parts?? price for both route's low comp + std ££££ ???, any one experienced it?
    
    bout time i put all these bloody expensive snap on tools to some use of my own
41. steviet Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4119

    #41 23rd December 2007, 11:44

    im turbo-ing mines the now and its cost me just under 1200quid so far . thats for the parts. fittting it myself , nearly finished
42. dan-iow Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 130

    #42 23rd December 2007, 16:56

    wots that including tho mate, are you doing pistons?? or just turbo with a de comp plate??
    
    what boost are you going to be running?? any pics so far??
43. user_15989 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 Posts: 4857

    #43 23rd December 2007, 17:26

    I am interested too. What is the spec of your car steviet?
44. steviet Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4119

    #44 23rd December 2007, 17:39

    if you click on the link below my sig it started on page 5. ive just used a de-comp gasket.
45. RCD-Performance Established Member Joined: Dec 2007 Southampton Posts: 2278

    #45 23rd December 2007, 18:12

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jackman Believe i need to put alot more research into turboing a engine before i start playing around. its alot more difficult than people think i believe.

    I have to agree with Jackman, its not quite as simple as slapping a blower on and hoping for the best, i would never recommend a turbo conversion to a customer without at least considering a rebuild, especially if the engine has high mileage or a hardish life. Forged pistons would be the way to go if you wanted long lasting and reliable motoring.
46. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #46 23rd December 2007, 18:33

    £1200 on parts and its nearly finished?
47. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #47 23rd December 2007, 18:57

    I did mine finished in stage one spec at £980 all in mapped. But to get mine running to its utter best need to sort more things and go in for its final remap
48. steviet Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4119

    #48 23rd December 2007, 18:58

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by williamsvts £1200 on parts and its nearly finished?

    correct. bought a vtr turbo and stripped it back to standard. put all the bits on my car and spent extra cash on bits that hadn`t been done to the original conversion. basic`s i got got free. turbo / manifold / intercooler and such like. but it wasn`t a straight forward swap either, as it was a mark1 to a mark 2 vtr. a few diffrences in the 2 engine. but 1200quid i think it would have cost for a ruff guess from the start
49. dan-iow Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 130

    #49 24th December 2007, 18:36

    ah so thats not start fo finish as a new project.
    
    what have you done about the oil return from the the turbo? and what cams and management are you running and are you using an oil coooler??
    
    think id have to go low comp pistons if i do it and replace big end bearings etc in the process!! std rods should be okay tho as i wouldnt be taking the piss with the amount of boost id be running!! do they do an uprated headgaskets for the vtr engine?
50. RCD-Performance Established Member Joined: Dec 2007 Southampton Posts: 2278

    #50 25th December 2007, 19:22

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush I did mine finished in stage one spec at £980 all in mapped. But to get mine running to its utter best need to sort more things and go in for its final remap

    When you say "stage one" can you explain a little more?
    
    Stage one, two, three etc differs depending who you talk to and how much money they want for there bit lol.