VTS box in to VTR

  1. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #1
    has any1 put the VTS gearbox in to the VTR? what are the results like im thinking about doing this when i get the new VTR, i felt the gearing was to tall in the VTR and i heard the VTS is much better?

    Thanks,
  2. Saxperience Addict Joined: Aug 2004 Herts. N/W London Posts: 13578 Project MK4 MoreDoor
    #2
    VTS/106Gti gearbox has a much shorted ratio and longer final drive then the VTR box, so acceleration is good, while sustainging a decent top end.

    been done manier times. have a search on here mate
  3. Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye
    #3
    do it mate done it on mine and its great
  4. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 Sussex Posts: 3891 2x 106 GTi
    #4
    Will give you better much better acceleration but revs will be higher on the motorway than with the VTR box
  5. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #5
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saxoboii1989 View Post
    Will give you better much better acceleration but revs will be higher on the motorway than with the VTR box
    could be a good thing.. higher revs means its going to pull better to somtimes keep up with the flow on the motor way :\ can see it getting slightly annoying tho, how high is high btw?
  6. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2003 Kent Posts: 3994
    #6
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SaxoAL View Post
    VTS/106Gti gearbox has a much shorted ratio and longer final drive then the VTR box, so acceleration is good, while sustainging a decent top end.

    been done manier times. have a search on here mate
    Longer final drive?

    That doesn't sound right, as you're at a higher rpm to achieve the same speed.

    Dax - Its not a good thing imo, and has what has put me off of an S box. Im not 100% sure what the difference is in 5th, but say you are at 3k rpm while doing 70mph with an R box, you'll be at around 3.5k rpm with an S box. Which will mean you're engine is doing more work for the same speed and you'll loose mpg unless im sorely mistaken.
  7. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2003 Kent Posts: 3994
    #7
    ...although acceleration will be better.

    So its whether you do frequent motorway journeys, which was the decider for me.

    Acceleration vs Top end rpm/mpg.
  8. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Stockport, Manchester Posts: 5911 Vtr @ 123bhp R.I.P VTS
    #8
    Mine was great whilst it wasa running
  9. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #9
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by joeblow View Post
    Longer final drive?

    That doesn't sound right, as you're at a higher rpm to achieve the same speed.

    Dax - Its not a good thing imo, and has what has put me off of an S box. Im not 100% sure what the difference is in 5th, but say you are at 3k rpm while doing 70mph with an R box, you'll be at around 3.5k rpm with an S box. Which will mean you're engine is doing more work for the same speed and you'll loose mpg unless im sorely mistaken.
    balls didnt really think about MPG but surely its a differnce between like 3-2 on the motorway cause i hardly go above 75ish so my engine speeds stay pretty much about the same most of my work is done off the motorway though :\, when people say better aceleration.. how much better is better?

    how much is topend effected by? doesnt really bother me but id like to know its pro's and con's
  10. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2007 Spalding-ish Posts: 2512 Mk4 Anniversary golf. 106 Quiksallye
    #10
    Asuming you still have standard rev limiter and 195/45/15 wheels and tyres

  11. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #11
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VtsTom View Post
    Asuming you still have standard rev limiter and 195/45/15 wheels and tyres
    so its possibly best to get VTS alloys on before the new gearbox?
  12. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #12
    any chance u can post that up on the VTR ratio? with 185/55 14 tyres?
  13. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2007 Spalding-ish Posts: 2512 Mk4 Anniversary golf. 106 Quiksallye
    #13
    I would

    Perfect exscuse to get 283mm brake conversion
  14. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #14
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VtsTom View Post
    I would

    Perfect exscuse to get 283mm brake conversion
    can now get VTS alloys and not just get them for looks
  15. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2007 Spalding-ish Posts: 2512 Mk4 Anniversary golf. 106 Quiksallye
    #15
    Computer is being a spaz and i cant copy the vtr box ratio on your tyres.

    Basicaly if you use those tyres with a standard 6250rpm limit its:

    Rev drop Speed
    1st to 2nd 2939 32mph
    2nd to 3rd 1844 60mph
    3rd to 4th 1225 85mph
    4th to 5th 1578 106mph
    5th top speed 142mph
  16. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #16
    potential loss of 20ish mph off the top lol jeez didnt think it wud be that much. any idea how much a VTS box will set me back just for the box not including fitting?
  17. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2007 Spalding-ish Posts: 2512 Mk4 Anniversary golf. 106 Quiksallye
    #17
    Breakers yard near me does them for £125 with a months warranty, everywere will be different though.

    Be honest, how often do you go over 120mph?

    The acceleration up to that will more than make up for it. Just go steady
  18. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VtsTom View Post
    Breakers yard near me does them for £125 with a months warranty, everywere will be different though.

    Be honest, how often do you go over 120mph?

    The acceleration up to that will more than make up for it. Just go steady
    Never to be honest, just didnt think it would take that much off topend :o, ill have to go down my local scrappies see if he's got any GTI's or VTS's :|
  19. Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2008 dundee (scotland) Posts: 466 saxo vtr/vts engine
    #19
    ive got a vtr gear box on my vts and there is no difference m8

    if ur after acceleration stick a 1.1 or a 1.4 gear box on it
  20. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2006 paignton Posts: 3168 saxo
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by b-christie View Post
    ive got a vtr gear box on my vts and there is no difference m8

    if ur after acceleration stick a 1.1 or a 1.4 gear box on it
    i think a 1.1 and a vts are nerly the same box there is only 2 mph out on each gear. think i read some think like that. so vts or 1.1 box on a vtr should make a diffrence
  21. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2007 Coventry Posts: 5182 Lupo GTI
    #21
    The box off a 1.1 wont last.
  22. Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2005 norwich United Kingdom (England) Posts: 821 2003 posi VTS
    #22
    VTS wheels rolling radius is smaller than VTR wheels btw.

    VTS box wins hands down.
  23. Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2005 norwich United Kingdom (England) Posts: 821 2003 posi VTS
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Coonper View Post
    The box off a 1.1 wont last.
    Why? They are all as strong as each other.
  24. Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 187
    #24
    They are all as weak as each other.
  25. Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2008 dundee (scotland) Posts: 466 saxo vtr/vts engine
    #25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by liam_b View Post
    i think a 1.1 and a vts are nerly the same box there is only 2 mph out on each gear. think i read some think like that. so vts or 1.1 box on a vtr should make a diffrence
    ive had both on ma vtr and ma vts engines n could not feel any diference m8
  26. Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2008 dundee (scotland) Posts: 466 saxo vtr/vts engine
    #26
    im not sayim theres not a difference but u dont notice it like m8 im goin on personal experiance bud but go ahead if u wana but 2 me its a waste of time
  27. Established Member Joined: Sep 2007 Bolton Posts: 1300 Mauritius blue VTR
    #27
    It said 4th to 5th 99mph... Top end of 5th it says is 122mph... so no loss at all.... right?
  28. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #28
    argh the amount of shite written in this thread is silly.
  29. Trouble Maker Joined: Feb 2008 hook,hamshire Posts: 3426 black citroen saxo mk2 & focus ST '225',merc C180
    #29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    argh the amount of shite written in this thread is silly.
    explain yaself better would help.
    Also 8v is more revvier then a 16v,8v has more bottom end whilst 16v has more top end power.
  30. Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Glasgow United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 26097 Chelski Traktor
    #30
    ryan i couldnt agree more what a lot of rubbish.

    8v is more revvier??? What? 8v revs to 6200rpm and the 16v revs to ~7250rpm so infact the 16v is "more revvier"

    Simple facts are vts box = better acceleration, lower top speed, decreased mpg.
  31. Trouble Maker Joined: Feb 2008 hook,hamshire Posts: 3426 black citroen saxo mk2 & focus ST '225',merc C180
    #31
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    ryan i couldnt agree more what a lot of rubbish.

    8v is more revvier??? What? 8v revs to 6200rpm and the 16v revs to ~7250rpm so infact the 16v is "more revvier"

    Simple facts are vts box = better acceleration, lower top speed, decreased mpg.

    yes but the 8v has better bottom end which is what i meant.
    16v has more top end power
    8v more bottom end power,
    agreed with the gearbox though,thats just basic gear ratios.
  32. Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r
    #32
    if its excelleration your after then the 106 xsi boxisthe best, but top end aint that great, at the moment i have a box from a1.5 desiel on my vtr and the excelleration is the same but topend is very gd, and the mechanic sed the box is stronger, altho i dnt know if that is true.
  33. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #33
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by littleracer View Post
    yes but the 8v has better bottom end which is what i meant.
    16v has more top end power
    8v more bottom end power,
    agreed with the gearbox though,thats just basic gear ratios.
    hmm not sure if i agree with that, i dont find my torque propperly kicks in until about 3.5k revs and begins to trail off at 6k quite rapidly.. i agree with the 8v's being more Free revving tho especialy when teamed up with a decent manifold and exhaust set up.

    anyywayyyy VTS box here i come!! topend is a waste of space to be frank
  34. Regular Poster Joined: Oct 2007 belfast Posts: 264 IMPREZA WRX
    #34
    no vtr is more 'free reviing' than a vts
  35. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jonny13_vtr View Post
    no vtr is more 'free reviing' than a vts
    ... i thought 8v's where more free revving then 16. But there you go.. obviously not.
  36. Regular Poster Joined: Oct 2007 belfast Posts: 264 IMPREZA WRX
    #36
    16valves are really revy compared to 8's
  37. Established Member Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 2139 DIABLO RED 106 GTI E36 M3 EVO
    #37
    16v are more 'revvy' dohc allowing the inlet and exhaust gases entering/exiting the head more freely...

    vts/1.1 box in a VTR will defo make it accelerate quicker and it will be fairly noticeable...

    1.1 box is cheaper than the VTS and there same stength, no TU box is simpler weaker or stronger than each other =S
  38. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 lichfield Posts: 531 Saxo VTS
    #38
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SAM33R View Post
    16v are more 'revvy' dohc allowing the inlet and exhaust gases entering/exiting the head more freely...

    vts/1.1 box in a VTR will defo make it accelerate quicker and it will be fairly noticeable...

    1.1 box is cheaper than the VTS and there same stength, no TU box is simpler weaker or stronger than each other =S
    fair enuf, erm what about the rallye box?
  39. L-plater Joined: Oct 2007 near taunton Posts: 78 Saxo VTR 16v
    #39
    if you factor in racing box's and other non-standard saxo ones (eg from a 1.1, 1.4, VTR, VTS). what is the best gear box on the market for a saxo that will give the best acceleration?
  40. L-plater Joined: Oct 2007 near taunton Posts: 78 Saxo VTR 16v
    #40
    *i mean non-standard (eg NOT from a 1.1, 1.4, VTR, VTS).



    my mistake
  41. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #41
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SAM33R View Post
    1.1 box is cheaper than the VTS and there same stength, no TU box is simpler weaker or stronger than each other =S
    WRONG!!

    smaller diffs are weaker which are part of the non sports boxes.
  42. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by littleracer View Post
    yes but the 8v has better bottom end which is what i meant.
    16v has more top end power
    8v more bottom end power,
    agreed with the gearbox though,thats just basic gear ratios.
    power or torque? the whole 16v being only better for top end power, a 16v engine pulls perfectly fine lower down the rev range on OE cams.
  43. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #43
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by danwasere View Post
    if you factor in racing box's and other non-standard saxo ones (eg from a 1.1, 1.4, VTR, VTS). what is the best gear box on the market for a saxo that will give the best acceleration?
    sequential box by sadeev not unless you have a spare 5-10k lol!

    failing that quaife short ratio kit which is 11-1200 + VAT
  44. Established Member Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 2139 DIABLO RED 106 GTI E36 M3 EVO
    #44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    WRONG!!

    smaller diffs are weaker which are part of the non sports boxes.
    mate, 100s of people in this forum have said that all TU boxes are weak n wank, no such think as one being stronger than any other

    only difference is the final drive and ratios, totally disagree with you
  45. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2005 St Andrews United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 7384 Green mk1 vtr/s and Focus zetec
    #45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SAM33R View Post
    mate, 100s of people in this forum have said that all TU boxes are weak n wank, no such think as one being stronger than any other

    only difference is the final drive and ratios, totally disagree with you
    Once again in this thread more rubbish. Differentials on the sport boxes are bigger and therefore by definition are stronger than non-sport boxes. Two weaknesses in ma boxes under big power are the diff and the casing which flexes under big torque, so obviously sport boxes with bigger differentials are stronger.
  46. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SAM33R View Post
    mate, 100s of people in this forum have said that all TU boxes are weak n wank, no such think as one being stronger than any other

    only difference is the final drive and ratios, totally disagree with you
    the diff on the NON sports box is ALOT SMALLER!! this IS weaker.
  47. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2005 St Andrews United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 7384 Green mk1 vtr/s and Focus zetec
    #47
    what the fuck is LUNs? Quit being a cunt about rep, big deal, some of us live in the real world. maybe you should revise some facts before posting the next time....
    Put you 'dads' enzo box in your saxo, or is that the same strength as the ma box?
  48. Established Member Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 2139 DIABLO RED 106 GTI E36 M3 EVO
    #48
    mate i know your the 'SUPER' moderator but i believe there is no need what so ever for your foul language...

    go ahead, give me a neg feedback or and infraction...

    LUN? look it up my friend...

    sam
  49. Established Member Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 2139 DIABLO RED 106 GTI E36 M3 EVO
    #49
    do you know of any mods that will make the enzo box fit a saxo Sean?
  50. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #50
    want to keep digging or do we have to keep removing your utter shite whinging?
  51. Established Member Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 2139 DIABLO RED 106 GTI E36 M3 EVO
    #51
    now im being ganged on lol
  52. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR
    #52
    jesus christ. please delete this thread before i piss myself at all the shite in the thread
    i.e. DONT post unless you know wht you are on about.
  53. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2005 St Andrews United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 7384 Green mk1 vtr/s and Focus zetec
    #53
    Thread closed, it's gone way off topic and the ORIGINAL question has been answered.
  54. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #54
    beat me to it lol!