Group buy - Torsion bars, 21, 22 & 23mm.

1. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

   #1 12th April 2008, 21:01

   Pugsport official torsion bars.
   Standard VTR/S ones are 19mm, as are 106 Rallye/GTi etc.
   Uprated bars improve stability greatly as well as allowing a good handling balance with much harder front springs.
   
   UK prices followed by my estimated prices. All prices exclude delivery.
   
   21mm - Uk - £415 Me - £345
   22mm - Uk - £415 Me - £315
   23mm - Uk - £415 Me - £375
   
   You will not get these any cheaper anywhere in the world. I am making no profit at all. Delivery for them should be £15-20 whether you get them from me or another uk supplier so the above price differences should be exact savings. If we get 10 people or more together then i should be able to get them cheaper.
   
   This is just a tester, if you definitely want a pair then put your name down, if you're only interested please put interested after your name.
   
   Also GrpA pugsport engine mounts. Uk price £225 Me - £115.
   Again both plus delivery. Can't get hold of them at the moment though, will have to check the lead time.
2. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

   #2 12th April 2008, 21:31

   I'll start:
   
   AlexR - 21/22mm bars
   Ryanal - 22mm bars
   AdamH - Interested 21mm bars
   Gallandro - 22mm bars
   Georgina Leake - 21/22mm bars
   Sexman - 22mm bars
   Redbullet - Interested
3. AdamH Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2004 South Posts: 3638

   #3 12th April 2008, 21:31

   AlexR - 22mm bars
   Ryanal - 22mm bars
   AdamH - Interested, pending more info (not sure on size )
   
   whats the benefit of the 21 over the 22 / 23.. ?
   
   are the 22 adn 23 ideally for track rather then fast road and occasional track?
   
   matched with 155lb b8s will the 21 feel ok when matched?
4. DanT Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 P'boro Posts: 1619 R27 Clio

   #4 12th April 2008, 21:41

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by AlexR Uprated bars improve stability greatly as well as allowing a good handling balance with much harder front springs.

   Much harder springs as in how hard? What lbs we talking?
5. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

   #5 12th April 2008, 21:51

   In my opinion:
   
   21mm bars suit: 160-200lb
   22mm bars suit: 200-300lb
   23mm bars suit: 250-whatever you want, 500ish?
   
   Bear in mind you need to damp uprated bars suitably too.
6. DanT Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 P'boro Posts: 1619 R27 Clio

   #6 12th April 2008, 21:59

   hmmmm, the question is, will billie b8s handle the 21mm?
7. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

   #7 12th April 2008, 22:01

   Yes, i ran billie sport rears with 21mm bars and they handled them much better than the konis i had on before, better ride quality and better damping, never bounced and the back end was very tight, not sliding about everywhere.
   I am probably going to go for 21mm again tbh, great on the road and on track too.
8. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

   #8 12th April 2008, 22:02

   Adam the 22 and 23 are obviously harder. The 22s are over 200lb alone.
   
   Your car has 160lb fronts, 21mm bars should be spot on.
9. DanT Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 P'boro Posts: 1619 R27 Clio

   #9 12th April 2008, 22:10

   hmmm this interests me greatly. i have eibach sport springs up front with billie b8's, same as rear. Just dont want the back end to start sliding around with a stiffer rear?
10. Tim_1 Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2007 Porthleven/Cornwall Posts: 601 corsa 1.2 Saxo VTR

    #10 12th April 2008, 22:11

    what else will need to be upgraded changed if swapping over from standard suspension ?
    been thing about getting this but havent really looked into it
11. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #11 12th April 2008, 22:15

    22s cheapest? lol i rock!!
    
    need to decide if they will be to hard or not, we know the rear damping rates of the b8 dampers?
    
    and its sticky
12. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #12 12th April 2008, 22:17

    If swapping from standard torsion bars all you need is the torsion bars, suitable dampers(depends on bars chosen) and preferably a bigger rear anti roll bar(can supply 25mm pugsport one for cost price too)
    
    Eibach sports are far too sort, i had them many years ago, upgraded to H&Rs which were much better, then added 21mm bars with them but the balance was far better using 200lb fronts with the 21mm bars than the H&Rs with the 21s. The rear wouldn't slide all over the place but it'd not feel right or handle as well as with harder fronts. I would recommend 160lb fronts with sprints/grpNs or better so GMC 40mm or faulkner springs
13. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #13 12th April 2008, 22:17

    RyAnal you'd need grpN billie rears for 22mm, sport(b8) billies for 21mm.
14. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #14 12th April 2008, 22:20

    thought the b8s were there groupN rears. sodding part numbers lol!!
15. AdamH Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2004 South Posts: 3638

    #15 12th April 2008, 22:28

    so with my 160lb faulkners and b8s up front.. all i have to buy is..
    
    21mm tb
    25mm arb?
    b8 rears :o (cant find these on their own tho)
    
    edit - if you can get a price on the 25mm arb it would be great
16. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #16 12th April 2008, 22:32

    Pugsport don't list a 25mm rear arb any more, the number is blanked out, will have to speak to them about it. They are £200+vat+del in england by the looks of things, looking at £100 off that in theory, although the euro is very strong at the moment, used to pay £80 for them
    
    You would only need normal sport rear bilsteins for 21mm bars, they are about £140 a pair delivered from MSW although i might order a batch of bilsteins too
    
    B36-2075 are sport/b8 rears
    B46-1276 are grpN rears
17. AdamH Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2004 South Posts: 3638

    #17 12th April 2008, 22:34

    hm.. so..
    
    345 - torsion
    150ish - arb?
    140 - rears :O is 140 a cost price also
18. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #18 12th April 2008, 22:38

    £140 is from someone else. I do not yet have a deal with bilstein, i will sort that asap though and should be able to do better.
19. AdamH Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2004 South Posts: 3638

    #19 12th April 2008, 22:41

    excellent well when you get the final price all in, let me know and ill see what funds i have laying around
20. Gallandro Newbie Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1

    #20 12th April 2008, 22:52

    Intrested in a set of 22's, again depending on final price.
21. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #21 12th April 2008, 22:53

    Get saving. You can always buy the torsion bars, then save for the other bits, 24mm arb off a 106 gti/S2 rallye should suffice although it may only be 1mm, when you consider the change in volume.
    19mm arb x section area = 2.835 cm2
    22mm arb x section area = 3.801 cm2
    24mm arb x section area = 4.524 cm2
    25mm arb x section area = 4.909 cm2
    
    Then rear arb is approx 120cm long
    
    19mm = 340.2cm3
    22mm = 456.1cm3
    24mm = 542.9cm3
    25mm = 588cm3
    
    Adam your car has a 19mm rear in at the mo. I have a 22mm spare if you want it.
22. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #22 12th April 2008, 22:54

    AlexR - 21/22mm bars
    Ryanal - 22mm bars
    AdamH - Interested 21mm bars
    Gallandro - 22mm bars
23. Sammy Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2004 Derby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 671 106 track beast

    #23 13th April 2008, 17:39

    AlexR - 21/22mm bars
    Ryanal - 22mm bars
    AdamH - Interested 21mm bars
    Gallandro - 22mm bars
    Sam - 22mm bars
24. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

    #24 13th April 2008, 20:30

    How noticeable was the difference when you ran this setup on your's lads?
    
    Uber-tempted by this group buy
    
    Just trying to weigh up all the costs with added extras etc.
25. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #25 13th April 2008, 21:23

    Very big difference mate, more so when you've got a suitable front setup.
    
    I'm guessing it will be a few months before i go ahead with the buy as nobody involved is desperate and the more people we can get together the better.
26. AdamH Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2004 South Posts: 3638

    #26 13th April 2008, 23:29

    get it on ssc if you can stand the place :O etc more people who will go for it = cheaper
27. gd16 Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2003 Tayside Posts: 893 S/c VT!?

    #27 14th April 2008, 12:17

    Alex - would other PugSport items be included in this?
    
    As i'm fairly sure PugSport do rear axle mounts - which would go well with the bars. And the bushes are about the only thing i haven't uprated on mine.
    
    
    Also let me know when you sort out a deal with Bilstein, as i could do with replacing the Sport rears with Group N's
28. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #28 14th April 2008, 19:33

    Yeah anything that pugsport have in stock. was looking at the alu beam bushes The prices have gone up so much with the euro growing, remember when torsion bars were £250
29. gd16 Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2003 Tayside Posts: 893 S/c VT!?

    #29 15th April 2008, 11:08

    Yeah - sure when i got my ARB, TBs and hotel/fuel to Calais and back it was under £500. Sure that was 4 years ago now :O
    
    I'll check the PugSport site and see what goodies i need/want.
30. Sean Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2005 St Andrews United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 7384 Green mk1 vtr/s and Focus zetec

    #30 15th April 2008, 11:47

    AlexR - 21/22mm bars
    Ryanal - 22mm bars
    AdamH - Interested 21mm bars
    Gallandro - 22mm bars
    Sam - 22mm bars
    Sean - interested 21mm bars
31. pjm300 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2005 Potters Bar United Kingdom (England) Posts: 2749 T/B'd VTS

    #31 15th April 2008, 12:50

    want me to chuck this on ssc fag?
    
    i will be interested in a few months.
    
    mates rates on top yeah?
32. Sammy Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2004 Derby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 671 106 track beast

    #32 15th April 2008, 15:11

    Would 22mm bars be ok with my setup?(can be found in project section) im changing the nancy boy sprints and eibachs for group n's and faulkeners at the weekend
33. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #33 15th April 2008, 22:50

    What rate are the faulkners sexpest? that makes it all.
    
    Po00olean don't bother.
    
    This is mates rates, i'm making no profit at all at these prices, and getting nothing for my time or hassle.
34. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

    #34 15th April 2008, 22:59

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AlexR What rate are the faulkners sexpest? that makes it all. Po00olean don't bother. This is mates rates, i'm making no profit at all at these prices, and getting nothing for my time or hassle.

    I think i'll go for this in a few months like you say dude then my setup will almost complete exc. this plus there should be a shed load more interest = cheaper for everyone
35. gd16 Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2003 Tayside Posts: 893 S/c VT!?

    #35 15th April 2008, 23:26

    AlexR - 21/22mm bars
    Ryanal - 22mm bars
    AdamH - Interested 21mm bars
    Gallandro - 22mm bars
    Sam - 22mm bars
    Sean - interested 21mm bars
    GD16 - interested Alumium Axle bushes, wishbone strengthening plates
    
    
    
    Will put my name down so i remember. I'll have to look further into both items and see if they're suitable - and have another check over and make sure i'm not after anything else. Between the baffled sump, engine mounts, tbs and arb i think i've got the majority of items already lol.
36. Sammy Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2004 Derby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 671 106 track beast

    #36 16th April 2008, 00:11

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AlexR What rate are the faulkners sexpest? that makes it all. Po00olean don't bother. This is mates rates, i'm making no profit at all at these prices, and getting nothing for my time or hassle.

    Rated at 180lbs 550mm length, thats all i remember
37. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #37 16th April 2008, 00:13

    you mean 250mm length? 21mm bars. You bought matt(sworks) old ones?
38. Sammy Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2004 Derby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 671 106 track beast

    #38 16th April 2008, 00:18

    Its late in the day, i may have got my two's and five's mixed up, ive got it on the computer at home, i'll check before i take another guesstimation
39. littleracer Trouble Maker Joined: Feb 2008 hook,hamshire Posts: 3426 black citroen saxo mk2 & focus ST '225',merc C180

    #39 16th May 2008, 12:30

    i want 22mm rear tosion
    allu bushes
    23mm anti roll bar
    getting full group N billies.
    
    anyone know wee i can get 210lb front springs ?
    cheers
40. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #40 16th May 2008, 14:13

    Google - faulkner springs - and ring them up and ask for 210lb springs with whatever length you want (I gues around 240-250mm) and say they are for a saxo.
    
    Job done.
41. littleracer Trouble Maker Joined: Feb 2008 hook,hamshire Posts: 3426 black citroen saxo mk2 & focus ST '225',merc C180

    #41 17th May 2008, 15:21

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by raunchz Google - faulkner springs - and ring them up and ask for 210lb springs with whatever length you want (I gues around 240-250mm) and say they are for a saxo. Job done.

    yep,i emailed them lol.
    got back to me saying what lenth.
    whats standard length and if you want it lower 50mm what lenth would that be?
    cheers
    peter
42. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #42 21st May 2008, 20:01

    Ordering these in a week or so, get your deposits in asap if you want them. Save at least £50 delivered
43. Sammy Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2004 Derby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 671 106 track beast

    #43 21st May 2008, 20:06

    sort it aaaaaaaaat
44. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #44 22nd May 2008, 14:38

    Right pugsport france are out of 25mm ARBs, they haven't given me a date for more stock.
    
    So it's torsion bars only in this deal.
45. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #45 22nd May 2008, 19:12

    AlexR - 21mm bars
    Ryanal - 22mm bars - confirmed
    Sexman - 22mm bars - confirmed
    Littleracer - 22mm bars - confirmed
    RCD - 22mm bars - confirmed
    Mikey mincer 21mm bars - confirmed
    
    That's 6 sets of torsion bars. I'll order them tonight.
46. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #46 22nd May 2008, 21:37

    Ordered
47. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #47 23rd May 2008, 01:49

    woooooooooot.
48. RCD-Performance Established Member Joined: Dec 2007 Southampton Posts: 2278

    #48 23rd May 2008, 12:21

    
49. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #49 23rd May 2008, 15:26

    Had a reply from pugsport, should have the bars with me soon
50. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #50 23rd May 2008, 15:40

    wooooot rear beam rapage can recommenccceeeee lol
51. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #51 23rd May 2008, 19:07

    According to pugsport i should receive the bars within the next two weeks, ideally within a week. Then i will need to package them and send them out. Before i send them i will need FULL payment to have cleared to my current account. I will only accept the final payment in cash, cheque or bank transfer, and of course you will need to allow me time to check that the payment has fully cleared, anyone who knows where i live and work knows i don't have time to get to the bank very often.
    
    Nice dealing with you, fuckers
52. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #52 23rd May 2008, 19:08

    Delivery cost is £25(sharing the cost from france, plus DHL from me to you)
    
    So final costs for those that ordered.
    
    21mm bars: £370 delivered
    22mm bars: £340 delivered
    
    For those collecting, knock £12.50 off.
    
    AlexR - 22mm bars - confirmed
    Ryanal - 22mm bars - confirmed
    Sexman - 22mm bars - confirmed
    RCD - 22mm bars - confirmed
    Mikey mincer 21mm bars - confirmed
    
    That's what's been ordered
53. AdamH Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2004 South Posts: 3638

    #53 23rd May 2008, 23:03

    fail :/
54. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #54 23rd May 2008, 23:05

    I'll be ordering more stuff in a months time, or whenever the bastards get stock of the 25mm arb's back in. you didn't seem in a rush, a few people buying them needed them ASAP so i rushed an order through. Knowing people someone will decide they can't afford them so i'll have a set spare anyway
55. AdamH Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2004 South Posts: 3638

    #55 23rd May 2008, 23:06

    fair do well let me know =)
    
    still havnt got any of those ruddy pannel clips yet :@
56. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #56 23rd May 2008, 23:10

    I've got one somewhere here, was pretty easy to get them, got a pack for like a quid
57. Jimmy-Boy Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Suffolk Posts: 7551 N/A 200bhp+ per ton 106 gti

    #57 27th May 2008, 14:36

    im glad you live near me you will be very handy in the future im sure
58. luthor1 Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802

    #58 6th June 2008, 08:48

    Hi Alex, when are these due to arrive??
    
    Andy
    RCD Performance
59. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #59 6th June 2008, 08:57

    When i've verified that all payment has cleared into my account.
    
    A month ago someone was asking me to post some cams they'd supposedly done a bank transfer for, there was no bank transfer. And some muppet claimed back through paypal even though i sent the product and it was in perfect working order. So i don't let anything go until i know payment is cleared.
60. onzakieron Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Durham - Newcastle Posts: 1208 Saxo VTRRRRR

    #60 9th June 2008, 02:37

    Sorry i've been lazy and not read through the thread but i'd be interested in the engine mounts like, abit more info would be handy.
61. luthor1 Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802

    #61 9th June 2008, 09:16

    Dude - you only need to read the topic title to know this is a group buy for Rear Torsion Bars, not engine mounts?!!
    
    LOL
    
    Andy
    RCD Performance
62. menmen L-plater Joined: Aug 2007 youtube.com/medelski Posts: 77 Saxo VTS 167hp

    #62 9th June 2008, 11:40

    Can I join this group buy, or is it too late?
    I need a 21mm rear bar (just the rear)
    If it's too late, can you please point me to the shop in France that sells those?
    Thanks!
63. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #63 10th June 2008, 12:06

    read the thread, its gone.
    
    although theres a set of 22s available still.
64. menmen L-plater Joined: Aug 2007 youtube.com/medelski Posts: 77 Saxo VTS 167hp

    #64 10th June 2008, 14:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan although theres a set of 22s available still.

    Great, but van I buy just the rear bar?
65. luthor1 Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802

    #65 10th June 2008, 15:56

    I think there is a mis-understanding here. The "rear suspension" consists of 2 x Torsion Bars. There may be a 22mm set left over (they come in 21, 22 and 23mm).
    
    You cannot buy 1 torsion bar, you buy a set of 2 which suspends the rear of the car.
    
    Andy
    RCD Performance
66. davedinks L-plater Joined: Jun 2007 ayrshire Posts: 49 52 reg saxo vtr

    #66 7th July 2008, 19:06

    would this sort out the problem with pin bearing?as i have just had to put a second hand back beam on. only to be told by garage that there is play in the pin bearing.can anyone tell me if there is a way of stoping this?