VTS engine build

18th May 2008, 19:54

Right, as a few will know, im toying with different ideas of putting power into my car.
So looking into this one for the time being;
Cam'd VTS.
I would buy a VTS engine and box, ecu etc and strip it down to the bare bones, get everything as good as new and squeeze every bit of extra power and strength i could.
Plans would be;
-Tidy everything up/paint block.
-High compression pistons possibly-do these give extra power when used with high lift cams? Any need for different rods? or leightened and balanced crank?
-New bolts for the block.
-Check oil pump, new one if needed, same with water pump etc.
-Get head gas flowed/ported and polished/bigger valves matched to cams.
-Stronger valve springs, followers etc.
-Cams. any suggestions to which will be best for big but reliable power; newman, piper, cat, kent???
-Pulley-is this essential? any info??
-May even play with bigger injectors..would this be beneficial?
-Standalone management-omex or similar.
-K&N Gen 2 filter.
-Piper manifold.
-AAS exhaust.
-New engine mounts and bushes.

Any info on the above would be very much appreciated..also, what else is advisable to change when converting to 16 valves, obv the engine, box, ecu. Do you need a different fan, radiator, fuel lines and pump?
Cheers.

18th May 2008, 20:00

you would need the rad and fans ect aswell yes man

plans sound good man
high comp will be better yes
and id get better rods ect aswell just to play safe like but its not nessecary

18th May 2008, 20:13

what do the high comp pistons help with? and the rods?
will standard crank be ok?

18th May 2008, 20:48

any cam'd vts owners have any info for me

??

18th May 2008, 21:03

-High compression pistons possibly-do these give extra power when used with high lift cams? Any need for different rods? or leightened and balanced crank? - high comps should give you more torque in theory, as they give a better burn - rods, depends what you're revving to, if you're going much over 8k, then you will need better rods, if not, dont bother. same with crank

-Get head gas flowed/ported and polished/bigger valves matched to cams - a proper head will give you a lot more power a the top end, but it doesnt come cheap, you'll be paying a good 1k + VAT for a decent head, which should be matched to your engine, cams, throttle bodies etc...

-Stronger valve springs, followers etc. - again this depends on your cam choice, as long as your cam doesnt have over 10mm lift, then you will be fine with standard springs. followers depends on the age of your engine and whether theyre worn out.

-Cams. any suggestions to which will be best for big but reliable power; newman, piper, cat, kent??? - depends how big you want, 708's are good for about 165-170 ish, if you go up to 200bhp, then you need to be revving more, and spending a lot of money

-Pulley-is this essential? any info?? - vts pulleys are adjustable as standard, no point in changing

-May even play with bigger injectors..would this be beneficial? - depends on the power you're running

-K&N Gen 2 filter. - if you're going big power you'll need throttle bodies

-Piper manifold. - get a raceland, good for at least 180bhp

-New engine mounts and bushes. get group n or a mounts

18th May 2008, 21:27

thank a lot mate, lots of good info there;
i think i want forged rods and pistons for piece of mind and that bit more torque.
do you have to get a different crank or is the origional one modified?
i fancy bigger injectors too and run omex or similar.
i think il just leave it at cams and not bother with throttle bodies, i want an everyday car, not something that loud.

18th May 2008, 21:31

if you go standard inlet, stick with 708's, maybe high comps, but no need for rods or crank, you'll be fine like that. set your rev limiter to 7800 - sorted.

however maybe this video on the rollers will make you change your mind about the t/b's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7OkJJLVJjI

18th May 2008, 21:46

haha, so with 708's or similar, are forged pistons more than enough to handle the revs?
are piper 285's similar to 708's?
would forged rods make a difference to power or torque?
also, will bigger injectors make a difference whem mapped correctly?

could this kind of work be done to a vtr engine? with forged pistons, bigger injectors, cam'd, would it make a good difference?

18th May 2008, 21:50

i would not bother modding a vtr engine unless you're specifically entering it into a race series.

its just not financially viable, when you can chuck a vts engine in and have the power straight away.

forged pistons can rev to 9/10k, you'll be fine with 7800rpm - could run standard pistons if you were on a budget.

not sure about the piper grinds... best bet is to call gmc motorsport to ask about them

forged rods just mean you can rev higher, wont make any difference.

you will only need bigger injectors if you're running big power, theres no gain by using larger injectors in this instance - unless you max them out, which i dont think happens til about 180bhp ish... someone else could clarify this, AlexR probs

18th May 2008, 22:07

so even with forged pistons in a vtr and a good cam, it would not rev very high anyway?
if i go with the vts engine, i would want it good as new when it goes in the car so i would need;
the engine, box etc all the usual stuff..then;
-High compression pistons
-New engine bearings
-Head bolts
-Check oil and water pump
-Cambelt
-Headgasket/other gaskets
-Suitable headwork
-Cams,followers, valve springs
larger injectors possibly...
-Omex
Is there anything im missing that would be needed to run a nice cam'd engine? and anything that i should look out for to re-new?
Cheers

18th May 2008, 22:10

oh dont get me wrong, you could rev the vtr to 10k, but it would need loads more work to be done, throttle bodies etc, and you would need an uber wild cam to get any decent power out of it.

yeah full rebuild of bottom end, and things you listed there.

i wouldnt bother doing headwork with 708's or similar, i would only really do that when running much wilder cams as you will not see significant gains.

18th May 2008, 22:20

no headwork at all? is there anything that could be done that would be beneficial?
im still in two minds, do the vts engine or be different with the vtr. less power but would be different. if i could get it to run some good power i might still go for that.
the other thing i was going to ask was, is there any running problems when using high comp pistons?

18th May 2008, 22:23

as long as its mapped fine, there should be no running problems...

as far as headwork goes, you could get a jp4 head, which is said to flow slightly better, but for the amount you spend on good headwork, i would leave it until you give in and decide to run wilder cams with bodies

18th May 2008, 22:27

lol i may give in one day.
is the jp4 head from the 206?
what kind of mapping do you run? i want something like the omex or megasquirt, any ideas on them?

18th May 2008, 22:35

yeah jp4 is from the 206, 307 etc. you'll need vts valve springs in there to stiffen it up.

im running the KMS, which is ok for what im running.

end of the day with standalone, the best one to go for is the one your mapper feels most comfortable using

18th May 2008, 22:39

i may go to gmc for mapping, omex looks quite good.
sam cooke on here seems to be happy with his.
dont know what chip wizards does in terms of standalone.
cheers for all the info mate, great help.

18th May 2008, 22:40

no worries, just update this thread if you need any more help.

gmc are quite happy to map whatever i think, they supply and fit a few types

18th May 2008, 22:45

Tuning a VTR engine Vs a VTS engine.

Pound for pound you'll get far more power and thrills form the 16v.

I'd only tune an 8valve if it was an alloy block and sub 1400cc...

listen to pauline, it makes him feel useful

19th May 2008, 22:53

just been thinking, when converting to a vts engine; what kind of wiring has to be done?
is it a case of plugging the sensors into the engine and loom in or do you have to do any cutting of wires? :s

19th May 2008, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex_3589

just been thinking, when converting to a vts engine; what kind of wiring has to be done?
is it a case of plugging the sensors into the engine and loom in or do you have to do any cutting of wires? :s

Look here:

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84099

19th May 2008, 23:32

another thing, if i stick with the vtr engine and cam it with a 285 or similar...
would this be suited to having boost with a supercharger later on once iv saved more?

20th May 2008, 08:46

if you go boosted, you will need low compression pistons, which dont work well with the 285 cam, so really you would have to take it apart anyway!

if you're ever going to go boosted either save up and do it all in one go, or be prepared to spend a lot of money going from cammed to boosted

21st May 2008, 00:05

does the standard cam and head work well with a supercharger?

21st May 2008, 10:52

sure does

you may want to big valve the head if you want uber power

21st May 2008, 11:14

il have to get thinking.
the other day i was thinking that if i was to go with the vts engine, i would have to find one, build it up to the spec i want, get it fitted, mapped etc which would cost around the same as supercharging my vtr engine as i already have the engine and hopefully wouldn't have to be taken out of the car etc.
il make my mind up one day lol.

21st May 2008, 11:31

get a vts and charge that

21st May 2008, 11:40

when charging; it would be best to use forged rods and pistons, do you use a decompression plate as well or just a normal headgasket?

21st May 2008, 11:43

if you use low compression forged pistons then you can use a normal MLS gasket