yet another 'what 4-2-1 manifold do I get?' thread - help please!

1. hudson701 Regular Poster Joined: Jul 2008 Port Talbot Posts: 279 Citroen Saxo VTS MK2. Lotus Elise Series 2

   #1 14th July 2008, 23:21

   OK, I've been reading all the recent threads on 4-2-1 manifolds which has left me confused tbh as they all seem to give conflicting information. From what I gather these are the major producers of 4-2-1 mannis:
   
   Raceland - cheap, with poor build quality. likely to blow a hole/not last very long. However, very popular.
   
   Supersprint - expensive, excellent build quality.
   
   Milltek - not much info.
   
   Janspeed - expensive, sometimes poor build quality/welds. Other than that, not much info.
   
   GMC - haven't found much on this manni.
   
   I have a mk2 vts with a powerflow backbox system - what 4-2-1 manifold should I get? Are Raceland as bad as the majority seem to make out?
   
   Also, to fit the manifold, will i have to remove anything from the existing setup, and will the car pass it's mot? Will I need a new centre section?
   
   Help here, not sure what I need. I'm fairly competent with spanners so will most likely fit it myself.
   
   Cheers TIA
2. makaveli144 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Burton Posts: 3661 Alfa Romeo GT

   #2 14th July 2008, 23:25

   Quote:

   Also, to fit the manifold, will i have to remove anything from the existing setup, and will the car pass it's mot? Will I need a new centre section?

   VTS cats are always under the car so will pass mot no problem.
   
   I have a raceland on my VTR and it has being fine, doesnt blow and made the car more raspy and a lot more responsive. In the way of gains they are all very very similar so that shouldnt really affect your decision.
3. hudson701 Regular Poster Joined: Jul 2008 Port Talbot Posts: 279 Citroen Saxo VTS MK2. Lotus Elise Series 2

   #3 14th July 2008, 23:51

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by makaveli144 VTS cats are always under the car so will pass mot no problem. I have a raceland on my VTR and it has being fine, doesnt blow and made the car more raspy and a lot more responsive. In the way of gains they are all very very similar so that shouldnt really affect your decision.

   
   So basically its a straight fitment of the 4-2-1 mannifold? no removing any of the undersection, or moving any other bits? Sounds too good to be true...
4. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #4 14th July 2008, 23:53

   GMC no questions asked imo.
5. Matty-VTR Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 Cheltenham Posts: 920 Silver VTR & Gunmetal Grey VTR

   #5 15th July 2008, 00:20

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by williamsvts GMC no questions asked imo.

   Based on what? More power over the others?
6. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #6 15th July 2008, 00:49

   better build quility and better designed imo, just an overall better manifold.
7. paddy88 Regular Poster Joined: Feb 2006 Newcastle Posts: 491 Saxo VTS, Golf GTI, Audi A3, Saxo VTR

   #7 15th July 2008, 00:53

   what kind of power gains do u expext to get with a manifold? 10 bhp?
8. paddy88 Regular Poster Joined: Feb 2006 Newcastle Posts: 491 Saxo VTS, Golf GTI, Audi A3, Saxo VTR

   #8 15th July 2008, 17:13

   anyone?
9. makaveli144 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Burton Posts: 3661 Alfa Romeo GT

   #9 15th July 2008, 17:16

   Quote:

   So basically its a straight fitment of the 4-2-1 mannifold? no removing any of the undersection, or moving any other bits? Sounds too good to be true...

   Basically yes, not sure but you may have to move the oil filter though.
   
   I think 10bhp optimistic, probably about 7.
10. hudson701 Regular Poster Joined: Jul 2008 Port Talbot Posts: 279 Citroen Saxo VTS MK2. Lotus Elise Series 2

    #10 16th July 2008, 00:05

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by williamsvts GMC no questions asked imo.

    And where can i get one from?
    
    Echo the question above, is there really much of a performance gain or is it just noise?
11. makaveli144 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Burton Posts: 3661 Alfa Romeo GT

    #11 16th July 2008, 00:09

    hudson you would need to contact GMC, GMC manifold is 4-1 not 421 and it is all explained here http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/index...age=page&id=30
12. Furio_Rob Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2008 Newcastle Posts: 2667 Furio FTW

    #12 16th July 2008, 00:18

    GMC only do 4-1 iirc
    
    i have the same dilema atm
    
    raceland for about £150-200
    or supersprint for abour £300
    
    think ill just go with raceland tbh, the difference cant be much and if you have it fitted profesionally should be ok
13. hudson701 Regular Poster Joined: Jul 2008 Port Talbot Posts: 279 Citroen Saxo VTS MK2. Lotus Elise Series 2

    #13 16th July 2008, 00:30

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by makaveli144 hudson you would need to contact GMC, GMC manifold is 4-1 not 421 and it is all explained here http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/index...age=page&id=30

    Well 4-1's are for high end gains correct? And 4-2-1 are for all through the range gains, perhaps better gains low down. For this reason I think they might be better suited to the vts power delivery.
14. Yates Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Pompey/Darlo Posts: 31546 MK1 - 1.1 Animal

    #14 16th July 2008, 00:39

    4-1 better suited to vts imo
    
    higher up revs for 4-1, vts kicks in higher up the rev range also
    
    suited
    
    i have 4-1 gmc
15. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #15 16th July 2008, 11:09

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hudson701 Well 4-1's are for high end gains correct? And 4-2-1 are for all through the range gains, perhaps better gains low down. For this reason I think they might be better suited to the vts power delivery.

    You can't use such a simplified rule.. the raceland gets gains at low revs, medium and top end..
16. yorkie Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2005 flavalas of york United Kingdom (England) Posts: 8456 gen7 toyota celica

    #16 16th July 2008, 11:17

    i have ashley 4-2-1 mild steel manifold it seems to do the trick
17. Yates Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Pompey/Darlo Posts: 31546 MK1 - 1.1 Animal

    #17 16th July 2008, 11:56

    yorkie you have vtr
18. leeroybrown Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2006 Durham Posts: 16000 Clio Trophy 025/500

    #18 16th July 2008, 12:00

    This is how I have always seen it
    
    4-2-1 works good on a VTR
    
    4-1 I still I think is best suited to a VTS
    
    Between me and 2 other mates we have had pretty much had every manifold and all stand by the GMC as being the best.
19. user_8040 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2005 MaDchester Posts: 8432 Vts

    #19 16th July 2008, 16:23

    i got the raceland 4-2-1 and im happy with it, good power cheap and quality isnt that bad tbh.
20. hudson701 Regular Poster Joined: Jul 2008 Port Talbot Posts: 279 Citroen Saxo VTS MK2. Lotus Elise Series 2

    #20 16th July 2008, 21:57

    mmmm....tempted by a 4-1 now going by what people have said. Is there much of price difference between a 4-1 and a 4-2-1? What about fitment, any issues there?
21. andy-vtr Newbie Joined: Dec 2007 Winsford Posts: 18 saxo vtr

    #21 17th July 2008, 18:50

    get a piper 4 - 1 there spot on both me and my mate have them.
22. andy-vtr Newbie Joined: Dec 2007 Winsford Posts: 18 saxo vtr

    #22 17th July 2008, 18:52

    all in all get what you thinks best, mines cammed and revs well top end with a 4-1
23. hudson701 Regular Poster Joined: Jul 2008 Port Talbot Posts: 279 Citroen Saxo VTS MK2. Lotus Elise Series 2

    #23 17th July 2008, 20:58

    do piper do 4-1's for a mk2 vts?
24. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

    #24 6th August 2008, 15:34

    yeah piper do 4-1's for a mk2 vts, u have to giv em a call though.
25. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #25 6th August 2008, 15:43

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123 yeah piper do 4-1's for a mk2 vts, u have to giv em a call though.

    we sell most of the manifolds in the list above.
    
    Don't quite agree with the summary in the first post though.
    
    For piper etc
    http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen-s...0/manifold-38/
    
    Certainly regarding the build quality of the raceland they aren't as easy to fit and the finishing is sometime a little rough but none that we've sold have fallen apart. They come with a guarantee for a few years too.
26. hudson701 Regular Poster Joined: Jul 2008 Port Talbot Posts: 279 Citroen Saxo VTS MK2. Lotus Elise Series 2

    #26 6th August 2008, 23:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KamRacing Don't quite agree with the summary in the first post though.

    OK, then please correct me. What is your view of the manifolds?
    
    I'm looking for a new manifold to give the best possible 0 - 60/80mph performance, rather than top end gains. Reason being is that in everyday driving you're not going to be doing 100+mph, so modifications which only show a real benefit at these types of higher speeds are wasted IMO (on the road, anyway).
    
    As I said earlier, advice is welcome.