New Piggy Back ECU

14th April 2003, 00:23

I have found this and seems real good can even map it on the road.... Tell me what you guys think?

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SMT5?

.In the beginning when the SMT5 was launched, it was hard to in visualize ever replacing it. In fact, when the engineers started to design the new SMT6, we still asked WHY? It became clear when the SMT6 was first released in BETA, that there were limitations to the SMT5 in the newer vehicles. The SMT5 set a high precedence for the SMT6 to follow in. The SMT6 was built on top of the SMT5 and PRS, giving the SMT6 the basic functionality and reliability of the SMT5 and the technology advancements of the PRS. In the three months when the SMT6 was in BETA release, it performed extremely well and exceeded all expectations. All of the people that have been involved in the beta testing have been eagerly looking forward to the official release date.

ADDS TUNING CAPABILITY TO ALL ENGINES

TUNE ONLINE VIA YOUR PC, NO RE-CHIPING NEEDED

TUNE WHILE YOU DRIVE

MONITOR & TUNE AFR (Lambda)

LOG YOUR ENGINE PERFORMANCE

TUNE YOUR ENGINE THE SMART WAY

SAVE SETTINGS

TWO SEPERATE SETTINGS STORED IN MEMORY

WHY THE SMT6?

The SMT6 was designed to allow you to tune ANY engine. Signals are modified on maps found within the units and with windows software. Installation and tuning is simple and once installed the engine can be retuned by anyone with a laptop and the tuning software. An average installation consists of connecting 6 wires to the vehicles original wiring loom, changing the settings of the unit in the setup section of the tuning software and you are ready to retune the car. It has been found that an experienced installer can install an SMT unit within 30 minutes.

When ordering the SMT6 you have two options. The first is the development kit which comes with everything needed for installing the unit including the self test jig which allows you to test the unit for faults and the development CD which contains all software, manuals and our latest database of wiring diagrams for different cars (now over 650 cars). Your second option is purchasing only the unit and harness with all other accessories being charged for as extras.

A full list of the features and benefits of the units are listed on a chart below, herewith an explanation of some of the latest ones:

The library files have been done away with. You can now save your setting files and reload them without having to send them to us for validation. You still have the option of branding, in other words placing your company information into the unit, as well as invoking the no-tune option that hides the tuning maps and setup of the unit.

We have made some advances in the lambda features of the SMT. As with the older unit it is still possible to read the lambda sensor but now it is also possible to modify the lambda sensor signals. There are two modes of lambda tuning, the first is a linear mode which tunes according to the voltage of the sensor. The second is non-linear which allows you to tune according to a lambda value. Both tuning modes are selectable via the setup screen.

The older SMT5 had an output that was enabled according to a RPM set point. This was mainly used with cam switching applications. With the SMT6, it is possible to set this output to airflow, temperature and analog deflection points as well.

The extra injector driver can also be used for proportional nitrous injection, something its predecessor could not do.The SMT6 has an input for airflow sensors and temperature sensors, each have a separate map that can be used to manipulate the fuel, extra injector and ignition signals.

FEATURES & BENEFITS OF THE SMT6

All piggy-back units are reliant on the exiting ECU

14th April 2003, 02:18

Sounds interesting....

What kind of prices ??

14th April 2003, 03:06

£250 if you decide to map it all yourself

and what either on top if you get it mapped at a RR

so would work out to be same price as a Dastek

14th April 2003, 03:16

Not a bad price realy...

Quite alot of kit for only a couple of hundred...

14th April 2003, 03:18

Yeah I know

But if you think about it a dastek is only £220 and the reason costs so much is mapping it on the rollers so end of the day there the same price

14th April 2003, 03:35

Wow. Sounds cool that!!

14th April 2003, 04:26

Similar type of thing to that which Bucky is using... a big advantage being able to manipulate the sensor readouts, etc and MAP it yourself using a laptop...

Simo'

14th April 2003, 04:27

@SIMO

what exactly is bucky using and how does he find it over a dastek

16th April 2003, 06:16

Apexi isn't it???

16th April 2003, 19:28

no, he uses an apexi the same as mine, but thats not controlling fuelling, etc... Im not sure of the make, ut I know he was looking at OMEX stuff??

Bucky???

SImo'

28th April 2003, 05:59

Hello.

with this smt6 can we change the max rpm??

with the dastek this canÂ´t be changed.

28th April 2003, 06:22

I'm not sure.. :s

It says it is a piggy back ecu.. which means the std ecu will still be in place.. So I think the rev limit will not be able to be changed.. could be wrong though.

Simo'

28th April 2003, 06:33

it will be smt6 (or dastek) better that one mf2 and ecu conditioner that for a conversion of a supercharger?

28th April 2003, 06:41

NO, I believe the MF2 and conditioner is currently the best way to do the conversion...

29th April 2003, 00:54

<blockquote> Originally posted by RedCitro on 28.April.2003<hr>
Hello.

with this smt6 can we change the max rpm??

with the dastek this canÂ´t be changed.

<hr></blockquote>

You can change the RPM with a Dastek

29th April 2003, 01:16

I seriously doubt that this new piggy back ecu can work with modern ecu,s as they all have back up maps and things ,too complicated to explain here,which will not let a piggy back control half the things the write suggests it can.the parameters it is saying it can control can only be done with a "stand alone" ecu. and the reason that all reputable ecu suppliers only have agents is not to make money for the agents ,but to make sure they are set up correctly. You have no chance of setting up an ecu without a rolling road or engine dyno.

so whats the point in being able to alter everything yourself if you haven,t the equipment to create stable load and rpm sites to map it at. if you had it mapped first on a rolling road ,maybe you could alter some small parameters to fine tune it ,but set up from scratch is a non starter.no I,m not trying to protect my buisness from keen amateurs, qite the reverse,i like it if smeone comes who has a clue about what is required to get a car running as well as the maker of it does. they then understans and accept that it will take a long time to get as good a map as original.max power is easy its all the parial throttle settings and idle ,cold and hot etc that takes the time.

that is why i developed the sig con unit .so you can have best of both worlds. std mapping for low speed and idle,or high speed light load cruising etc with lambda control etc. and only alter it where it needs to be to suit a boosted application.

29th April 2003, 01:20

some ecu,s can have rpm limit removed with a dastek + an extra unit,but not a bosch ecu with transponder type keys (7.2 onwards). i doubt if the smt6 could do it either due complexity of diagnossis system which double checks all signals and doesn,t allow any signal which is contary to its protocol.

29th April 2003, 01:29

The time is very nearly here when there will be no way to mdify a std ecu.and the only solution will be to fit a stand alone type. this will be because the requirements of the EU emission tests /OBD diagnosis ,etc will require the car to mot itself as it drives ALL the time and if it sees signals that do not match that of the shadowing map in the ecu then it will turn the fault lights on and maybe go in to limp mode.

if it was as easy to do as it sounds then why has someone not made system that you plug in along with a lambda probe that just self maps??. some say they can do it ,but in reality they cannot. the modern ecu map starts in a computer with all the empirical numbers for the engine desiign , i.e size ,cam profile ,revs ,power required weight of car and gearing combustion rates and many more. it designs a map ,then they spend weeksin a trst cell to make it work properly. If ford ,citreon or nay other can,t do it then what chance has anyone doing it by driving up the road?

29th April 2003, 01:30

Since I posted this I found something really interesting about it which put me off big style

I am still sitcking with th Dastek for my Own conversion and will be mapped next week

29th April 2003, 01:34

If turboing etc then remeber the dastek ,when using the extra injector driver, can only add extrafuel with the extra injector ,not the std ones as well. what i am saying is that if you use the dastek and want an extra 100 bhp you will need to run at least two extra injectors or more. one will not give enough .the only huge injectors availble that would do it with one (at sensible prices) are the wrong impedance ,which will fry your dastek

29th April 2003, 01:37

I have uprated all 4 injectors and gettin the dastek mapped to them

29th April 2003, 02:18

Hello.

The Dastek cannot change the max rpm I have read this"The main limitation to these units being that most standard management systems have a maximum revs cut out, to prevent over revving the standard engine, this function cannot be altered."

I read this in GMC site.

Does the Dastek can change our not?

29th April 2003, 02:31

pug106turbo: if you are using dastek without the extra injector driver then ,ok you can map them higher ,but once you go above a certain boost your std map sensor will not work or break,it will even remove fuel sometimes if the figure goes to high.If you use extra injector driver ,which also has a map clamp in it to stop the ecu seeing too high a value,then the only extra fuel you will get is from extra injectors ,plus what ever percentage the upgraded ones are over std. without the extrariver unit it will not work well. also you will still have lambda working when on anything thing less than full throttle ,which can cause a lean spot,not good.

geff lowe did this on hie vtr s/c and eventually it blew the pistons at only 10psi and with lowered comp ratio

29th April 2003, 02:33

red citro: as I previuosly explained a dastek can alter some ecu,s rev limit if an extra unit is fitted along with it ,but not all ecu,s.only really the marreli 1ap for sure and maybe the bosch 3.1 and 5.2,check with your dastek dealer. definately not with 7.2 or later

29th April 2003, 02:35

simo; whats this "wannabee " crap next to my name.

i ain,t no wannabee

29th April 2003, 02:57

ok axsaxoman thanks for the answer.

Here we use a lot of material from citroen sport that they use in racing cup.

I have a ecu from race make 7800 rpm and give a very good power more power from 3500 to the max rpm.

But there are rally version that make the same max rpm but have a very fast cut, very good.

29th April 2003, 03:43

Hi there I am using 4 uprated injectors and am not using the std map sensor anyway

We will see how the 4 uprated ones go and if doesnt work well will go for 5th injector

29th April 2003, 04:30

Why not just keep it simple and use sig-con/mf2???

29th April 2003, 07:20

<blockquote> Originally posted by axsaxoman on 28.April.2003<hr>
simo; whats this "wannabee " crap next to my name.

i ain,t no wannabee

<hr></blockquote>

Its denoted by the amount of posts you make... your group thing changes as your posts go up. Nothing personal...

Simo'

30th April 2003, 00:48

if not using std map sensor ,ie larger range then the std ecu will be way out on fuelling ,so what are you using

30th April 2003, 01:30

I am using a Dastek Unichip

Reason never went for sig con and mf2 cause am going with my tuner who is a dastek dealer and also he will map the fuelling

2nd May 2003, 00:46

If you back to what i said earlier, larger injectors can be mapped with dastek ,but there is no map clamp on dastek unless you fit extra injector driver ,then you can only add fuel with extra injectors and not with ones fitted to car. they will only be altered if you wish to reduce fuel. I have used the dsatek and if only low boost is what you are running then maybe it will work ,but once you go above4-6 psi then the std map sensor will fail,soner or later and the ecu will see a fault because the map sensor will be out of range on boost.

Also the lambda will try to lean of mixture when on anything other than full throttle. I am not trying to sell you a unit ,just pointing out the problems you may or may not encounter,how you address them is totally up to you. pistons ar dear items to fry through running lean

2nd May 2003, 00:54

i have been accused of rubbishing the dastek ,when it comes to boosted conversions ,this is absolutly not true ,but there are other facotrs that must be addressed if you are going to use it ,as I used to,Only today I finished a s/c vts conversion which already had a dastek fitted. i hooked this in as wellas it can do things my sig con cannot . with both sig con and dastek you can get even more adjustment of fuelling systemand Matt dales car has 2 extra injectors and the dastek increasing the fuelling on the std ones ,as i was running out of fuel on extra ones. the bottom line is you cannot get BIG power without using fuel . The ideal is to fit a stand alone system but that is far more expensive to set up ,so thats why i use what i use yes you can rasie fuel pressure to increase out put of injectors but then the pump will only go so far without an expensive upgrade of whole fuel delivery system. as you increase pressure of pump then flow rate drops.

3rd May 2003, 02:45

I have already got the dastek but just not fitted yet

also for the map sensor will be changing to a custom one or a 2bar one so already covered that side

also i know about the 5th injectors going to map it using 4 uprated injectors and see if engine will hold more boost and power then if needed will add the 5th injector drive and injector

P.S who been slagging u about dastek

3rd May 2003, 18:25

would be better to use dastek turbo unit with map clamp built into it,(to stop ecu going funny) if your doing it that way,than a seperate map sensor

the vts i just finished gave 202bhp @ wheels with .8bar of boost .

somewhre some one from dastek supposed read an email where I wasdenegrating the dastek and sayng it was no good. This i have never done,as it can domost things ,but there are some things it can,t do.although i have ben assured it will be able to do it when the next generation is available.this was promised voer a year ago ,so thats why i wnet on to develop the sig con unitswhich address the problems in a different way. Also i sell my s/c kits to a world market where a rolling road is not just down the road ,so it was important to make it adjustable without need for a laptop or special equipment. for what its designed for it is perfect for any conversion to a boosted system on a n/a car. it cannot or ever will be able to do the ignition timing ,rev limiter or other things the dastek can,so i don,t see the conflict. i will use either system or a combination of both to get the best results on a particular installation. for normally asiparted cars,or cars that have afactory fir turbo system the dastek is unbeatable ,for its flexibility and results when compared to superchips or the other piggy back systems available. it may be that when it finally arrives it will be avle to do even what my units do. but until then the only other way to control all fuctions that are neccassary is to fit a stand alone ecu and spend the time to manp it correctly. I hope that clears up the misconception of my feelings about the dastek

4th May 2003, 00:21

John, that's a healthy @wheels figure for only .8bar. Is that because you could alter the ignition timing with the dastek??

4th May 2003, 01:06

we know about the dastek going to try map it with one I have and if no good with map sensor will uprade to another type of dastek that will work on my car

4th May 2003, 02:01

nope ,never needed to. if the timing is right,the inlet temps low and the fuelling is correct and the engine has a good combustion ,then provided you don,t go daft with the boost no need to. the limiting factor will be the unleaded fuel/comp ratio

5th May 2003, 07:37

They should make a lambda-probe driven one that can produce it's own maps!!!

Or would that just be too simple<img src= "smileys/smiley5.gif">

19th May 2003, 23:27

Why not this: Turbo Link

20th May 2003, 00:20

thats a good link

Do you know any prices m8 or other sites like that

25th May 2003, 04:00

injector controller looks like the MF2

Both 3D mapped