is a vtr capable of...

10th November 2008, 23:42

achieving 170bhp, without turboing it?

11th November 2008, 00:15

Supercharge it!!

Or swop for a TB'd cam'd vts engine!

11th November 2008, 00:24

that didnt answer my question...

the question on this thread was, is a 'vtr' capable of achieving 170bhp, without turboing it, and that also includes without supercharging it too

11th November 2008, 00:27

throttle bodies i think would be the only option to achieve that amount of power with out charging or turbo

11th November 2008, 00:28

a vtr is capable of doing so.

But will require deep pockets and will be effectively be a race only engine, have a very narrow powerband, fail emissions etc.

Theres a reason people dont try

11th November 2008, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

throttle bodies i think would be the only option to achieve that amount of power with out charging or turbo

even then its still a struggle.

Look at catcam 708 set ups with TBs on 16v, they are 165-170 in most cases, its not a small task.

11th November 2008, 00:32

ok Ryan,

so what kind of things would i look at doing to achive this would you say mate?

and why a race only engine?

11th November 2008, 00:34

also, things i was thinking of currently doing to my vtr are as follow...

raceland 4-2-1 manifold
supersprint race centre section
supersprint race back box
raceland enclosed induction kit with green filter
newman ph3 cam
throttle bodies
omex management

11th November 2008, 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-C

ok Ryan,

so what kind of things would i look at doing to achive this would you say mate?

and why a race only engine?

because in order to get that sort of power you will need a very very wild cam, Peaky engine, narrow powerband etc.. Useless for road use, also will never get through an mot, also will be utterly useless with most MA boxes.

You will need to spend HUGE sums of money to obtain a power figure like that NA on a 1.6 8v.

11th November 2008, 00:38

with the amount of cost and trouble your going to...

you may aswell save pennies and build a cammed vts lump?

11th November 2008, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-C

ok Ryan,

so what kind of things would i look at doing to achive this would you say mate?

and why a race only engine?

I would think it would be because the cams needed would be very lairy and would have a bad idle. The management would have to make it fairly high revving. Im still learning about perfomance mods but i learned most of it from reading things ryan has written.

11th November 2008, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

even then its still a struggle.

Look at catcam 708 set ups with TBs on 16v, they are 165-170 in most cases, its not a small task.

good point.

11th November 2008, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytee

Im still learning about perfomance mods but i learned most of it from reading things ryan has written.

read books, people make mistakes, read data and interperate it yourself for good understanding.

11th November 2008, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

good point.

I dont get why people think that if getting 170bhp out of a 16v isnt easy than getting an 8v to do so is pheasable without spending many thousands.

11th November 2008, 00:43

with the mods below how much could i possible achieve

raceland 4-2-1 manifold
supersprint race centre section
supersprint race back box
raceland enclosed induction kit with green filter
newman ph3 cam
throttle bodies with pendlum for raceland
omex management

11th November 2008, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-C

with the mods below how much could i possible achieve

raceland 4-2-1 manifold
supersprint race centre section
supersprint race back box
raceland enclosed induction kit with green filter
newman ph3 cam
throttle bodies with pendlum for raceland
omex management

between 135-145 if the cam is the spec id expect.

some 8vs have hit 150 on RR but iirc peter 86 was only 145 and that was a VERY high spec engine.

also its a plenum.

11th November 2008, 00:46

plenum thats the one lol

after those mods above what would be the next stage without turbo or supercharging?

11th November 2008, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-C

plenum thats the one lol

after those mods above what would be the next stage without turbo or supercharging?

High comps, uprated rods, Massive headwork (valve work) madder cams, correct spec induction length (from valve to butterfly, and to trumpet for tat set up etc...) crank adjustments etc..

And theres No point when it wont give huge bhp on the shitty 8v lol!

Best way to get decent power out of a 8v is wang a shit load of boost into it.

11th November 2008, 00:56

hmm in that case....

i MAY

leave my car with the newman ph3, raceland manifold, enclosed and supersprint system

and then valver it later next yr

11th November 2008, 01:00

its FAR FAR FAR more economical if you want 160,170,180bhp ranges NA.

For example this is the spec of an engine that made 184bhp. Not cheap by any means on 16v still for massive bhp.
TU5J4 1.6 16v
Emerald M3D ECU with shed motorsport adapter loom
All unused wires in engine bay removed
Baffled peugeot sport sump
Mocal oil cooler with thermostat
Polished and balanced crankshaft
New bearings all round
Rebore
Steel H section conrods
ARP rod bolts
High compression kit car pistons
Enlarged inlet and exhaust valves
Head ported to suit bigger valves and match inlet & exhaust systems
Solid camshaft followers
Double Stronger Valve springs
Catcams 803 cams
Maxi(S1600) exhaust header
2.5" stainless exhaust system
Maxi individual direct to head throttle bodies
Long polished trumpets
Larger pico injectors
Peugeot sport grpN engine mounts
Lightened and balanced flywheel

11th November 2008, 01:01

if your after a far whack of power.

why dont you wont to S/C or turbo it?

11th November 2008, 01:02

cool cool

that engine should have low compression piston kit fitted and then boosted, would make mad figures imo

11th November 2008, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-C

cool cool

that engine should have low compression piston kit fitted and then boosted, would make mad figures imo

Why fit low comps on ane engine thats a VERY high spec na engine, the cams will be shit with boost they are to wild. then you are ditching the pugsport exhasut manifold, no point with solid lifters etc.....

as has been proved with a few attempts bodies and Boost dont seem to work to well on modified cars.

And why ruin a decent NA engine by going boosted

11th November 2008, 01:05

true, but think what you could gain going boosted

11th November 2008, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-C

true, but think what you could gain going boosted

a completely different way of driving, no howl of throttle bodies, LAG,etc.. etc..

You cant just change the odd thing on an engine thats built for NA of that level to then go boost.

11th November 2008, 01:08

sorry mate i dont mean that engine, i just mean just think what you could gain building a 16v boosted engine, the actual figures you could achieve

11th November 2008, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-C

sorry mate i dont mean that engine, i just mean just think what you could gain building a 16v boosted engine, the actual figures you could achieve

until the gearbox is added to the equation......

11th November 2008, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-C

sorry mate i dont mean that engine, i just mean just think what you could gain building a 16v boosted engine, the actual figures you could achieve

About 300-350 at the fly has been done a few times.

11th November 2008, 01:12

considering my vtr was completely standard when i was last using it..

when i drive it next it will have the following

raceland 4-2-1 manifold
supersprint race centre section
supersprint race back box
raceland enclosed + green filter
newman ph3 cam
ecu remap
s2 rallye OR xsi box

i got no idea what to expect it to be like i was looking for a little more acceleration than standard so hopefully should achieve this

11th November 2008, 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie

until the gearbox is added to the equation......

Good point, you have to start thinking about uprating everything to handle the power!

What is your budget?

Or would it be a long term build??

11th November 2008, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIDE-VTR-TURBO

Or would it be a long term build??

Id say unsure as wanting some unrealistic power figures.

talks about NA and boost. 8v and 16v

11th November 2008, 01:16

well my mind is set now

my car is staying with the mods 2 posts up

next year if work stays well i will valver it and then tune that

as said in my post above,

Quote:

considering my vtr was completely standard when i was last using it..

when i drive it next it will have the following

raceland 4-2-1 manifold
supersprint race centre section
supersprint race back box
raceland enclosed + green filter
newman ph3 cam
ecu remap
s2 rallye OR xsi box

i got no idea what to expect it to be like i was looking for a little more acceleration than standard so hopefully should achieve this

11th November 2008, 01:17

id say a cammed 16v would be the most affordable option.....

11th November 2008, 01:18

if your going s2 rallye box, may aswell just get a vts box as there very similar.

s2 box on vtr is 118mph
vts box is 122

also id start looking for a 16v engine, playing about and looking at it, youll learn more and have a better understanding, thats how ive learnt(ing)

11th November 2008, 01:28

what do u think the acceleration would be like with the mods i stated and the s2/vts or xsi box?

11th November 2008, 01:28

will it be much noticable than from when i last drove it standard?

11th November 2008, 01:30

it will be noticable yes.

just wait and drive it to see, wait and get it on rollers to see what power it runs etc.. dont clutch at sraws or you might be let down.