WRC sound!!

  1. Established Member Joined: Aug 2007 Llanelli Posts: 1800 Saxo project S1400!!!
    #1
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=11-b1F...eature=related

    Im after this sort of sound on my saxo.. I know its not possible to have my car sounding like that on a realistic budget, but what sort of things would i need?

    Throttle bodies / Cams / Ecu etc etc

    What mods can i do to get more rasp and a higher pitch noise...

    Currently have a 1.4 8v,

    raceland 4-2-1

    Decat

    Supersprint race only system (with back box)

    Raceland enclosed with standard raceland filter (no green upgrade)

    Thanks
  2. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5
    #2
    Cams throttle bodies straight through exhaust with 2inch exit.
  3. Established Member Joined: Aug 2007 Llanelli Posts: 1800 Saxo project S1400!!!
    #3
    rally cams? and what TB's
  4. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #4
    rally cars sound sweetas the have around 100k spent in there development

    get youself a decent spec engine to get the noise

    tbh you wont get close to that but you can get impressive noise from a sax
  5. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #5
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdamWhy View Post
    rally cams? and what TB's
    full race profile
    and jenvey or kms bodies are a good choice

    car will be hard to use as a daily though as itll struggle to idle ect on a full race cam
  6. Established Member Joined: Aug 2007 Llanelli Posts: 1800 Saxo project S1400!!!
    #6
    Which cams you recomend??
  7. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #7
    anti lag n some race fuel will help u get there!
  8. Established Member Joined: Aug 2007 Llanelli Posts: 1800 Saxo project S1400!!!
    #8
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by db_sax View Post
    anti lag n some race fuel will help u get there!
    don't i need a turbo for anti lag?
  9. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #9
    rally cars are turbod

    tbh a rally 2.0 turbo motor prolly cpsts in the region of what 25k???

    they are just mental hence the noise
  10. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #10
    buy one off here, get some good bargains somtimes!

    http://www.motorsportads.co.uk/
  11. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #11
    db this is better
    http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/clas...rowse&ct=fsrck
  12. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alex-VTS View Post

    niceone geezah!
  13. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 240 106 GTi
    #13
    s2000 rally cars sound the best! 2.0 NA making power up at about 9k+ or S1600's...

    Thats super2000 and not Honda s2000 lol!
  14. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #14
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by db_sax View Post
    niceone geezah!
    haha proper good cars on there

    i need about 70000000000000000000 euros lmao
  15. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alex-VTS View Post
    haha proper good cars on there

    i need about 70000000000000000000 euros lmao
    oh my.....

    http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/clas...tails&id=35257

    thats what its all about!

    sorry for the hi-jack
  16. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #16
    sorry db

    207 wins me over

    http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/clas...tails&id=34618
  17. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #17
    Mate thats a anitlagged cosworth turbo engine i would assume, never seen anilag set up on a saxo turbo, launch controll would give to same sort of effect, alot of people get antilag and luanch controll mixxed up antilag really is a turbo killer really made just for racing, road use will more than likely melt your turbo, and even damage your engine
  18. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #18
    heres an antilag video MAMAIA

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mXfUbFR-x7g
  19. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VTEC-Saxo View Post
    Mate thats a anitlagged cosworth turbo engine i would assume, never seen anilag set up on a saxo turbo, launch controll would give to same sort of effect, alot of people get antilag and luanch controll mixxed up antilag really is a turbo killer really made just for racing, road use will more than likely melt your turbo, and even damage your engine
    all anti lag does is spool the turbo to full pressure at lower revs
    it will ruin a turbo on daily use (it can ruin a rally cars if left on)
  20. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #20
    Heres some ford antilag at its finest

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=puGCda4ThvU

    And a bit of rx7
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-obPUf1jAoQ
  21. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2007 skipton northyorks Posts: 5275 clio 172 exclusive track toy
    #21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by db_sax View Post
    anti lag n some race fuel will help u get there!
    ha ha
  22. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #22
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alex-VTS View Post
    all anti lag does is spool the turbo to full pressure at lower revs
    it will ruin a turbo on daily use (it can ruin a rally cars if left on)

    Yeah dont no to much about it, but evos have a antilag ready ecu ?, and it has a few settings, like extreme antilag, off and mild antilag or somthing
    I would really like to see somone turbo and antilag a vts
  23. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by db_sax View Post
    heres an antilag video MAMAIA

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mXfUbFR-x7g
    love how its sat slightly off to the back of the rollers at the start

    it ent in the run lol
  24. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #24
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VTEC-Saxo View Post
    Yeah dont no to much about it, but evos have a antilag ready ecu ?, and it has a few settings, like extreme antilag, off and mild antilag or somthing
    I would really like to see somone turbo and antilag a vts
    im not 100% on it (i dont really do boost)
    but thats what it does lol its purely so you can launch at full boost
  25. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #25
    yeah, builds revs up after acceleration, eg braking so you can be at full boost when leaving a corner, were its really needed in wrc cars , cant be waiting for the power to kick in,
  26. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2006 Banbury Posts: 4623 Saxo Rally Car Evo 6
    #26
    This thread is awesome
  27. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2007 skipton northyorks Posts: 5275 clio 172 exclusive track toy
    #27
    anti lag holds the revs at a set rpm so the the turbo is on full boost all the time , so u get no lag its like driving a saxo with the revs set at 5k all the time thats why rally cars have massive brakes because the car takes sum slowing down with the rev set so high .launch control is a different thing and is only used on the startline of each stage ect

    heres a vid from the rally i was at last weekend

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Da3WUvWwTuM

    and what happens when it all goes wrong in a mk2 escort

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eb_wyn...eature=related
  28. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #28
    ah so its like having a high idle to keep boost almost
    so if you let off it wont drop below x amount of revs to keep the turbo spooled up?
    (trying to improve my knowledge lol)
  29. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2007 skipton northyorks Posts: 5275 clio 172 exclusive track toy
    #29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alex-VTS View Post
    ah so its like having a high idle to keep boost almost
    so if you let off it wont drop below x amount of revs to keep the turbo spooled up?
    (trying to improve my knowledge lol)
    yes mate thats why when u see wrc cars ect the exhusts/manifolds are glowing red aswell as the brakes
  30. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #30
    cool mate glad thats an easy way to explain it

    yea ive seen glowing brakes n manis ect
  31. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #31
    im sure its not set at 5rpm all the time ? from what i thought , once you let off the gas entering a corner, ignition timing is alterd retarding the air and fuel mix making it richer alowing it to keep entering the engine, wilst your foot is off the gas, its shuved into the exhaust exploding the rich mixture when it comes into contact with the heated exhaust tubes wich spools the turbo ( normaly would not be spooling as the intake is shut off (retarded ) thus not runing at 5krpm all the time...) making lower responce times and faster spooling of the turbo...
  32. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #32
    he said it as an example mate

    5k is probably higher than it is
  33. Established Member Joined: Aug 2008 harlow/ essex Posts: 1414 stealth Vtr/S
    #33
    they are so funny,
  34. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alex-VTS View Post
    he said it as an example mate

    5k is probably higher than it is
    How is the idle set at 5000rpm, when the intake is shut off when anitlag kicks in... no combustion in the engine, its in the exhaust pipes and turbo, hence the superheated glowing exhaust

    short explination jsut found on the net

    An anti-lag system is an automobile engine/exhaust modification designed to combat turbo lag.

    Turbo lag is caused because the turbines in the turbo system take time to spin up to speed. This lag is magnified in racing engines that have large turbos.

    The older anti-lag system worked by injecting fuel into the exhaust system, upstream of the turbo, when the throttle was released. This injection of fuel into hot exhaust results in ignition of the fuel in front of the turbo. This causes the turbines to keep spinning at high speeds even when the engine wasn't.

    Later systems using more advanced computers to control the engine simply altered the timing of the engine so that fuel ignition occurs when the exhaust valve is open, with the same results.

    The drawback to this system is that the exhaust temperatures are much, much higher than normal (~1100 degrees C vs. ~800 degrees C). This results in greatly reduced lifetimes for the turbo and exhaust components, which is fine for rally cars in races, but unacceptable for street vehicles.

    Another potential problem is the huge amount of pops and bangs and gouts of flame shooting out the tailpipe. Cool, if you are into that sort of thing.

    Anyway back on subject lol
  35. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Yorkshire Posts: 5415 Saxo
    #35
    Simplified;

    Anti-Lag = Over fueling and changing the ignition timing so the unburnt fuel/air hits the hot exhaust mani and ignites firing through the exhaust and maintaining the turbos spin (boost).

    Thats why the cars sound so rough when its switched on, basically because they temporarilly adjusting the engine to run rough. But on purpose.
  36. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #36
    yeah
  37. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #37
    ah cool yea so the unburnt fuel going into the exhaust ingites creating the presure and spoolng up the turbo
  38. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #38
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alex-VTS View Post
    ah cool yea so the unburnt fuel going into the exhaust ingites creating the presure and spoolng up the turbo
    makes sense as does the high idle.

    im confused which is true
  39. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #39
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alex-VTS View Post
    ah cool yea so the unburnt fuel going into the exhaust ingites creating the presure and spoolng up the turbo
    Yeah retarding the ignition intake ect throws the feul striaght through the engine into the mani just before the turbo, and because this is already like uber hot it creats a huge explosion spooling up the turbo, this is why antilag is wack when cold
  40. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #40
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by db_sax View Post
    makes sense as does the high idle.

    im confused which is true
    High idle is bollox lol research it

    just found this in a rally website thing lol


    How ALS works

    When the driver lifts his foot from the gas pedal the ignition timing is altered with sometimes 40° or more of delay (retard) and the intake air and fuel supply mixture is made richer. The inlet butterfly is kept slightly open or an air injector is used to maintain air supply to the engine. This results in air/fuel mixture that keeps getting in the combustion chambers when the driver no longer accelerates. The ignition being delayed, the air/fuel mixture reaches the exhaust tubes mostly unburned. When the spark plug fires, the exhaust valve is starting to open due to the ignition delay mentioned above. Additionally, the exhaust temperature being extremely high, the unburned fuel explodes at the contact of the exhaust tubes. Luckily the turbo sits right there and the explosion keeps it turning (otherwise it would slow down since its intake, the exhaust gases, is cut-off). The effect is vastly lower response times with some downsides:

    A quick rise of the turbocharger's temperature (which jumps from ~800°C to the 1100°C+ region) whenever the system is activated

    A huge stress on the exhaust manifold and pipes (mounted on a street car a bang-bang system would destroy the exhaust system within 50-100 km)

    The turbo produces significant boost even at engine idle speeds

    The explosions which occur in the exhaust tubes generate important flames which can, sometimes, be seen at the end of the exhaust tube

    Reduced engine brake
  41. Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 Carnforth (lancaster) Posts: 1617 55 CTR premier '97 posi vts
    #41
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by andywiddss1 View Post
    yes mate thats why when u see wrc cars ect the exhusts/manifolds are glowing red aswell as the brakes


    works by cutting spark very briefly and dumping fuel straight onto the turbo, which is hot so the fuel explodes causing it to spin like feck and hold boost. puts loads of stress on the turbo tho.

    only rally cars tend to use it, nothing else does that i cant think of.

    lauch control does a similar thing.

    they can do this on a rally car cos they replace the engine after every rally, so about 2000miles if that. not recommended on a road car bviously
  42. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #42
    i think the whol 5000rpm thing he was goin on about sounds a bit like double clutching lol old rally methods ther

    Anyway stuff turbos and antilag its impractical and out of most of us money wise, how do you get a saxo to sound awesome N/A tuned is the question in hand pure power
  43. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #43
    tghere are three types of anti lag, these videos look like ignition retard systems due to flames.
  44. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jonezy View Post
    works by cutting spark very briefly and dumping fuel straight onto the turbo, which is hot so the fuel explodes causing it to spin like feck and hold boost. puts loads of stress on the turbo tho.

    only rally cars tend to use it, nothing else does that i cant think of.

    lauch control does a similar thing.
    no quite the same mate, launch control jsut sets an intermittent rev limit, which is set by the user to attain the best power release vs wheel spin for the surface and traction conditions.

    they sound like a revvvVVVVV Bang Bang Bang, the bangs are a hard cut limiter ready to launch at given revs.
  45. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by don55 View Post
    no quite the same mate, launch control jsut sets an intermittent rev limit, which is set by the user to attain the best power release vs wheel spin for the surface and traction conditions.

    they sound like a revvvVVVVV Bang Bang Bang, the bangs are a hard cut limiter ready to launch at given revs.
    Loads of people mistake that for antilag tho like lol ?
  46. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #46
    yer i guess it sounds rather similar to noobs, but anit lag flames like a cunt and bang very loudly, LCS's jsut sound like a slowed down rev limit at lower revs.
  47. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #47
    http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/bangbang.html

    This seems to cut the crap and explain it quite well imho
  48. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #48
    that only explains one version (of 3) of anti lag, but is the most common and cost efective, doesnt require custom exhaust manifolds and intake plenum's

    this is a LCS'ed car, evo.

    does it sound like anti lag, no lo. (not aimed at you vtec)

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sq0rWOzb7Y
  49. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jun 2006 Wirral Posts: 13584 Wickerd red VTS MK2, Two tone VTS MK2,vvc Metro..
    #49
    Cams, throttle bodies, Full exhaust system..................
  50. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #50
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by don55 View Post
    that only explains one version (of 3) of anti lag, but is the most common and cost efective, doesnt require custom exhaust manifolds and intake plenum's

    this is a LCS'ed car, evo.

    does it sound like anti lag, no lo. (not aimed at you vtec)

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sq0rWOzb7Y
    Yea yea i get you, thers loads of idiots on youtube and that uploading vids of there omex'es as "ANTI LAG "
    when its just launch controll
  51. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #51
    yup some people jsut dont get it.

    good job most of them get directed to this forum.


    only joking so dont start
  52. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by don55 View Post
    yup some people jsut dont get it.

    good job most of them get directed to this forum.


    only joking so dont start

    Sorry about being mardy with you in that turbo induction thread, i under estimated you lol
  53. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2006 Bristol Posts: 16575 JP4urio, 306 DTurbo SportShed
    #53
    Ive got an electric supercharger off ebay and theres no lag atall. Dont know what you lot are on about think youve been done over tbh, Ive just got an electric fan that responds to the throttle. Sounds mint too
  54. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VTEC-Saxo View Post
    Sorry about being mardy with you in that turbo induction thread, i under estimated you lol
    its cool dude, i jsut get pissy at stupid threads that can be searched easily, and get asked alot.

    i have alot of knowledge, not as much as others, but a good portion, about cars, engine, engineering etc.

    mabe im just getting cynical at my old ages of 23, (24 tomorrow)
  55. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #55
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo View Post
    Ive got an electric supercharger off ebay and theres no lag atall. Dont know what you lot are on about think youve been done over tbh, Ive just got an electric fan that responds to the throttle. Sounds mint too
    so you dont need to make an antilag system from a calculator PCB and a 9v battery ?
  56. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #56
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by don55 View Post
    its cool dude, i jsut get pissy at stupid threads that can be searched easily, and get asked alot.

    i have alot of knowledge, not as much as others, but a good portion, about cars, engine, engineering etc.

    mabe im just getting cynical at my old ages of 23, (24 tomorrow)
    December ftw my birthday yesterday
    im still a young en but no alott not being bigheaded lol and havnt been a member to long, so try to be helpfull but it does get anoying
  57. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by don55 View Post
    so you dont need to make an antilag system from a calculator PCB and a 9v battery ?
    dont you need the sparker from a lekki fag lighter ?
  58. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #58
    ive owned saxos for 6 years now, few cars in between but always come back.

    been around the block, heard it all and seen most of it lol
  59. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VTEC-Saxo View Post
    dont you need the sparker from a lekki fag lighter ?
    fuck i knew i forgot somehting


  60. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #60
    When I go into the country its great to hear the birds singing, the russling of the wind in the trees .. and the sound of a group A rally car on a charge

    tissues at the ready boys!

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WTAPps...eature=related
  61. Established Member Joined: Feb 2004 southampton United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1881 Super stripped VTS transit camper iveco work hor
    #61
    love that vid
  62. Regular Poster Joined: Nov 2007 WESTERN PARK LEICESTER Posts: 255 SAXO 1.1 LX
    #62
    does sound fat

    do that next to the cops lol
  63. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5
    #63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KamRacing View Post
    When I go into the country its great to hear the birds singing, the russling of the wind in the trees .. and the sound of a group A rally car on a charge

    tissues at the ready boys!

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WTAPps...eature=related
    that video is a beast lol, the pop and bangs were LOUD
  64. Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 108
    #64
    both
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WUPoNR...679EF1&index=0
  65. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2005 somewhere on this planet, doing something..... around northumberland or in the middle of the sea Posts: 8774 Mk2 VTS track mk1 turbo vts scooby engined 2CV
    #65
    set of rally spec high lifts cams
    throttle bodies
    straight through exhaust system with a tiny rear box off a toyota land cruiser or similar (mega tiny box) no other boxes

    and to replicate that nice start from the lights, a launch control system and a nice atb quaiffe diff
  66. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2005 somewhere on this planet, doing something..... around northumberland or in the middle of the sea Posts: 8774 Mk2 VTS track mk1 turbo vts scooby engined 2CV
    #66
    or you could just take your manifold and exhaust system off your car, remove a spark plug and its will sound about the same, but wont be anywhere near as quick as it should be