rst saxo decisions decisions?

4th December 2008, 16:28

right im thinking of putting a cvh turbo lump into my saxo vtr, but im a bit unsure if its possible, ive mesured up, and theres enough room for the engine, not sure about gearbox yet though, i think it should be ok though, does anyone no if this has been done before, or will i be the first? just wounderd if there would be anywhere i could buy custom mounts ready made and stuff like that.
i would like to run at least 250 bhp, so would i be better of going for a zvh or just a normal zetec and turbo that? i no i would have to get custom driveshafts and that made up aswell, and im gonna design a removeable slam panel with the intercooler built into that, if theres enough room, or ile just fit a chargecooler otherwise.
trying to work out a shopping list aswell,so far its as follows.
escort rs turbo engine or zetec not decided yet?
gearbox with lsd
custom driveshafts or mate the saxo and escort ones
intercooler
frst radiator as there smaller
hybrid boost pipes
exshaust
unsure on which brakes? maybe cossie?
custom engine mounts
and some management, maybe emerald
if anyone can think of anything else let me no please.
and i will also be putting in the recaro interior aswell as a flocked dash, then im haveing it resprayed imperial blue or focus st orange not sure yet swaying towards the blue at the minute, then im gonna badge it with the focus rs badges in white.
i just want to do something a bit different to the norm,let me no what you all think please, ile need all the support i can get lol, but im deffinately gonna do it thats for sure, itll give me something to do over the winter, then i can hit the pod in the summer and see what shell do, i can feel a 300 bhp monster comeing on lol. anyways im off to chat with some of the ford gang to find out some mesurements ile need.

4th December 2008, 16:36

been done before but in the back, had no end of problems too.

If you've got a clean design sheet then pick a quality engine and fit that

4th December 2008, 16:36

funnily enough i was thinking bout that coz i have a spare rs turbo engine i fink it could be done

4th December 2008, 17:08

Yeah there was a silver 106 which was not slow, but he had so many problems IIRC.

We followed him to Santa Pod one day a few years ago and he kept up with an Integra Type R engined Mini! But when he got there he ended up getting towed home!

4th December 2008, 17:37

yeah i no about that 106, with the engine in the back it was fetured in redline some years back ive got the mag, think mjs did it not sure? what engine would you choose then? im also unsure on brakes too?

but it will be done i promise, just got i few mesurements sorted out. if it goes tits up ile chuck i vts lump in and turbo the bugger that way, but pound pound, theres better gains to be had with the ford lump.

what do you guy think on the couler choice?. cheers again.

4th December 2008, 17:44

theres laso a saxo, with a honda v-tec lump in nocking about somewhere too, so really if the engine will fit in the bay anythings possible. but if i was gonna use a v-tec lump, there would be alot more cash needed, i think i can get it done with the rst lump for around 4k and thats including paint, but only because ive got some very usefull freinds 1s a painter, 2s welder/fabricater, and im an engineer, so im lucky to have freinds who are offering to help in there spare time, well atleast untill there misses start moaning lol.

4th December 2008, 20:09

a bog standard 2.0l duratec just on ITBs .. gets you a geniune 220bhp which is nice. N/a to and no reliability issues at all.

B16 Honda lumps are nice too ..

5th December 2008, 17:03

u want rst engine and interior, might aswell just buy an rst?? lol

i personally wouldnt put an old rst engine in but each to their own!!

5th December 2008, 20:04

but RSTs handle like barges

5th December 2008, 21:03

i've got several mates with mk4 escort rsturbo's, all of which break down more often than they change their underwear. Their are plenty of better engines you could put in it or just leave the engine that is already in it. Seriously, people won't say 'wow, he's got an rsturbo lump in that' they will say, 'what an idiot, why would anyone got to all that effort to put an unreliable engine in their car'.
Unless you want to constantly have your hand in your pocket, shelling out for new bits for your engine and being sat at the side of the road waiting for recovery then i wouldn't bother! sorry to sound so negative!

6th December 2008, 13:49

well its gonna be a zetec turbo now, so hopefully ile be ok, and anyways rst lumps are no less reliable than a saxo vts or vtr lump, it just depends on what way you tune the engine, therefore better rliability, and pound for pound ile get better gains for my cash on a ford lump, because theres a better scope for tuning ya see, take a look at the fastford mag, and ive seen zetec engines with over 500 bhp, you aint gonna get that from a vts lump, but the saxo handling is second to none with the right suspension tweeks, thats why i want to put the engine in that, and ive already got a escort rst anyway, so i do no the downfalls.ile see how it turns out.

6th December 2008, 15:02

well goodluck then matey and get a thread going!!

6th December 2008, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

but RSTs handle like barges

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

i've got several mates with mk4 escort rsturbo's, all of which break down more often than they change their underwear. Their are plenty of better engines you could put in it or just leave the engine that is already in it. Seriously, people won't say 'wow, he's got an rsturbo lump in that' they will say, 'what an idiot, why would anyone got to all that effort to put an unreliable engine in their car'.
Unless you want to constantly have your hand in your pocket, shelling out for new bits for your engine and being sat at the side of the road waiting for recovery then i wouldn't bother! sorry to sound so negative!

lol i had a 1982 mk 3 Xr3 and never ever had to be recovered and it ran carbs which had there own probs fuel freezing in the jets esp this time of year but nothing a can of wd40 and would have an old skool Esscy over most cars esp frenchies pmpl

CVH be better with a ZVH conversion more robust and better all rounder for tunning wise

6th December 2008, 17:07

i had a rst with a 2L zetec bottom end on, low comp plate, bigger injectors, piper cam, bigger intercooler, air filter, scorpion exhaust system.

it was fast as fook, had a massive lump of torque, but would torque steer like a bitch.

never had it rolling roaded, but it was quick

sold it before i had the chance to get it on the rollers, insurance was a bastard for it when i was younger lol

would be cool in a saxo, but they are old engines now.
if i was not bothered about fab work etc.
i would go for a focus rs lump or even the focus ST lump.
less miles, better engine and more potential

6th December 2008, 17:20

for some reason the cvh seems to lose all its reliability when it has a turbo strapped to it, a good friend of mine had 4 xr3i's and never had an issue, he's had 3 rsturbo's and nothing but problems. He's a massive ford lover so it doesn't put him off. He has said that puttin a zetec bottom end on it would solve many problems though.
Its a good idea mate, but it seems like you will incur a lot of unwanted expense. Will certainly be different though!

9th December 2008, 12:09

was thinking of a focus rs or st lump, but the st lump is very wide and heavy, so it wouldnt sit well at the front,and i carnt get the engines at the right price buddy.

else i would have choosen one.
its gonna be a zetec bottom end and rods, with accralite pistons, cvh head, t38 ball bearing turbo/ or a kkk k26 turbo? gotech management,larger inlet and exshaust valves, newman p4 2-litre spec camshaft,,ferriday copper gasket with sealing rings, 2wd cosworth inlet manifold,grs double-pass fm intercooler/ or chargecooler? depending on space,pace radiator, walbro fuel pump system,403 injectors,mws loom,mocal oil cooler, bailey dv.
gearbox.
big bearing gearbox with lsd of s2 escort rst,-4paddle clutch,ap racing 1600lbpressure plate escort diesel gearbox mounts and i need a modified gearbox craddle.
brakes
brembo 4 pots radial mount callipers, 300x28mm red-dot dag disks, red dot pads, braided hoses,bias valve.
wheels
16inch comp mo,s.
interior
recaros out of fiesta rst, cage/thats it
exterior
resprayed imperial blue, with anthercite comp mo,s.
has ive got most of the parts already has i got a rear ended escort rst over the weekend

, so i can get crackin, just need to tidy and equip the garage with the correct tools etc, ile put pics up asap when theres some progress to show that is, still not sure how you put pics up though lol never done it before, cheers for reading back, well i better get on it now.

9th December 2008, 12:14

lol sounds like a mint project

why not just buy a ford?

9th December 2008, 15:38

already got a ford mate, well 1 and 3 quaters lol now ive brought the doner vehichle aswell, im a ford man to be honest i love em its the misses who got me into saxos, as shes had a fare few of them since her cabby, so i got me self a saxo vtr, and im hooked too now, and i think the handling is geat, but the powers just not great for me, but thats not going to be a problem shortly.

i just want to build something a little different to the everyday saxo, i went to fcs this year and i think there all moded in the sameway, like you could park a load of saxos with the bonnets up side by side and they wouldnt really beable to tell them apart really if you get me, everyone does the same mods, thats me rasons for doing it really i wanna be different, although im not a fan of bodykits or anything like that, my car will still look like a normal saxo vtr from the outside apart from the imperial blue paint and the comp mo rims and big breaks. carnt wait for it to be finished now.

cheers

9th December 2008, 18:03

FORD Tuning a Ford is like sprinkling glitter on dog shit. Get a real engine.
i r ea
x p i
a l
i y
r

9th December 2008, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shak

FORD Tuning a Ford is like sprinkling glitter on dog shit. Get a real engine.
i r ea
x p i
a l
i y
r

lmao, what do you class as a real engine then? a saxo engine?

9th December 2008, 20:58

RS turbo engine is never going to pass the emissions section of the MOT!

9th December 2008, 23:49

Why not go down the vag 1.8 20v turbo engine verry good engines and 180 or 225 hp standard depending on model...

10th December 2008, 00:24

If you are only after 250bhp you may as well just turbo charge the standard engine. It would be by far the easiest and cheapest way to go.

CVH = oil everywhere apart from in the sump.

10th December 2008, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastroadkid69

already got a ford mate, well 1 and 3 quaters lol now ive brought the doner vehichle aswell, im a ford man to be honest i love em its the misses who got me into saxos, as shes had a fare few of them since her cabby, so i got me self a saxo vtr, and im hooked too now, and i think the handling is geat, but the powers just not great for me, but thats not going to be a problem shortly.

i just want to build something a little different to the everyday saxo, i went to fcs this year and i think there all moded in the sameway, like you could park a load of saxos with the bonnets up side by side and they wouldnt really beable to tell them apart really if you get me, everyone does the same mods, thats me rasons for doing it really i wanna be different, although im not a fan of bodykits or anything like that, my car will still look like a normal saxo vtr from the outside apart from the imperial blue paint and the comp mo rims and big breaks. carnt wait for it to be finished now.

cheers

yes i agree the CVH is rubbish well if you try to push 300bhp out of a 1,6 on a standard engine then you goto expect the rods to come out the block ask anyone here about turbo on standard 1.6 8v engine so for the 3k you are all onabout to turbo a saxo put a 1.8 zvh in theres are crap but if a RST dont start then it is either the dissy or the metering head ! ! ! start to finish

anyway enough about a s2

10th December 2008, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by POWERPROVIDER

yes i agree the CVH is rubbish well if you try to push 300bhp out of a 1,6 on a standard engine then you goto expect the rods to come out the block ask anyone here about turbo on standard 1.6 8v engine so for the 3k you are all onabout to turbo a saxo put a 1.8 zvh in theres are crap but if a RST dont start then it is either the dissy or the metering head ! ! ! start to finish

anyway enough about a s2

thats all worng the zvh is great and if a rst dont start either the disy or the metering head is dead

10th December 2008, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by dboyvts

why not go down the vag 1.8 20v turbo engine verry good engines and 180 or 225 hp standard depending on model...

fun starts at 2.5 bar of boost

10th December 2008, 01:39

get a cozzie lumb in it if you want to do it properly

10th December 2008, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobbo_1

get a cozzie lumb in it if you want to do it properly

thats a waste of a cossie

10th December 2008, 11:57

nah the engine spec is sorted now, and thats how shes staying, zetec bottom end, with a cvh head, with this spec it should be good for 370bhp but im gonna cap it at about 300-320 for reliability,

i would like to use the 20v vag turbo lump, but i no naf all about these, so im not gonna bother, anyway the engine ive got will be reliable, ive got to send the head of tommorow to have it sleeved and machined flat on top, so i get a nice seal. does anyone on here now of anywhere i could get some custom driveshafts made up? might beable to mate the 2 together dont no yet? welll see.
i can feel a 300 bhp monster comeing on.

10th December 2008, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXracing

If you are only after 250bhp you may as well just turbo charge the standard engine. It would be by far the easiest and cheapest way to go.

CVH = oil everywhere apart from in the sump.

yeah but that would be about its limits, 300bhp would be ringing its neck brother

10th December 2008, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick

RS turbo engine is never going to pass the emissions section of the MOT!

why not? my other cars a rs and that passes easily enough buddy, and so do alot of others.

10th December 2008, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shak

FORD Tuning a Ford is like sprinkling glitter on dog shit. Get a real engine.
i r ea
x p i
a l
i y
r

what the fcuk his he on about,

10th December 2008, 12:50

Not really, people have had 450bhp and more out of the TU engine. The old DP Saxos were running over 190bhp at the wheels from only 0.75bar boost on standard internals and standard gearbox. They ran twin head gaskets and a extra 1000cc injector controlled by a simple MF2. I know one of these cars was run for many years at 1.1 bar.

I am not saying don't fit a CVH. If you really want to fit one you may as well do it. It would be a fun little project. I was just warning that it is going to be a lot of work and if you are swapping the engine because you are after a better engine to get reliable big power the CVH would not be the logical one to look at. Personally I would recommend a Vtech if you are wishing to swap a engine. Or even a XU as its not a hard fit.

10th December 2008, 17:44

cheers anyway but zvh it is for me

10th December 2008, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastroadkid69

what the fcuk his he on about,

I'm on about you putting a turd engine from the stone age, no make that the jurassic era, in your car..... why bother?

If you stop and think about it for a second you'll realise your on to a monumental FAIL! lol To be honest I can sum up your idea in one word FORD, says it all!

10th December 2008, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastroadkid69

cheers anyway but zvh it is for me

great idea mate i built one for a frind a few years ago and was running 280BHP at 3000 rpm the ecu backed out then and needed mapping dew to it being standard

Burton power do all the bits you will require for your engine

but i also been calculatig numbers for using a NA ztech with 16v head and standard turbo and it is safe cylinder pressures and temps so this could be a gud build for you to do just a standard t3 and a 1.8 ztech the 2.0 is not as strong as it is a bored out 1.8 but the 1.6 gives you 160 bhp in a cvh engine standard the 1.8 is 180-185 and the 2.0 is 200-220 but i recommend the 1.8

also the best engine to use is the j reg escort 1.8 as these have steel pistons and these if you want low comp just need the bowl of the piston skimming off to give you just over 8.5:1 comp ratio bu to be hnnest with a good intercooler and enough fuel for the boost a standard engine will be a great choice

i am a lover of fords for the reason you can not replicate the "pin you in your seat" feeling you get from a ford turbo.

if you wat help or this job doing get in touch as i have done custome engine mounts for a corsa GSI and did a polly upgrade fr the golf mk4lower mount that is allways breaking for a friend.

07519891176 chris

10th December 2008, 18:12

amazing idea mate. i can't want to see the end results

10th December 2008, 19:02

500bhp in a fwd

10th December 2008, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastroadkid69

why not? my other cars a rs and that passes easily enough buddy, and so do alot of others.

Escort RS are all pre-cat engines circa 1980- much lower emission standards!

Saxo comes under much harder emissions!

11th December 2008, 12:12

stuck on the mounts at the minute, been telled to cut the inner wings out the escort and fabricate them to the saxo? not sure though, any sugestions guys? yeah ive got a burton power catalogue here now mate, got some very good bits in too, will come in handy if anything breaks through the build, i stripped the engine down last night, and sent the head of to be skimmed this morning, so now i can clean everything else up and give it a coat of paint, i aint going for 500bhp, its 300-350bhp, but i could achieve that figure if i wished to, no problem, but i dont want it to be unreliable, and the torqsteer would be horendes buddy,i didnt no that about the jreg 1.8 zetec interesting that, but im going to use the 2ltr one and see how i get on, ive been asured it will be able to cope with the demands no bother,if i need any help ile give you a shout cheers buddy.

11th December 2008, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick

Escort RS are all pre-cat engines circa 1980- much lower emission standards!

Saxo comes under much harder emissions!

what so your saying anything old aint going to pass the emmisions?

11th December 2008, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by VtrFarlz86

500bhp in a fwd

i never said i was using 500bhp read the thread buddy.

11th December 2008, 14:40

if you have a read of the mot emmissions rules the emmissions output from a car is related to the age of the engine not the ar it is in

this means a 08 reg car with a 1990 engine doesnt need a cat and had a 3% co for emmissions this is not widely known and you will have to show your mot tester the bit in the manual ut this is true once they see it in the manuel then they will emmissions test by engine not by reg

i wouldnt shange the front inner wings into your car
if you was runnins a standard engine fine but there is fAR TO MUCH power in a turbo performance engine and you will probibly tare the inner wings out the bay

you would do much better to build a tubular engine chassy and custom mounts then you could also join it onto or into your roll cage

11th December 2008, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastroadkid69

stuck on the mounts at the minute, been telled to cut the inner wings out the escort and fabricate them to the saxo? not sure though, any sugestions guys? yeah ive got a burton power catalogue here now mate, got some very good bits in too, will come in handy if anything breaks through the build, i stripped the engine down last night, and sent the head of to be skimmed this morning, so now i can clean everything else up and give it a coat of paint, i aint going for 500bhp, its 300-350bhp, but i could achieve that figure if i wished to, no problem, but i dont want it to be unreliable, and the torqsteer would be horendes buddy,i didnt no that about the jreg 1.8 zetec interesting that, but im going to use the 2ltr one and see how i get on, ive been asured it will be able to cope with the demands no bother,if i need any help ile give you a shout cheers buddy.

ill build a picture for you saxo mounts are easy to use but they areasy to build with a polly bush off a ford front roll bar

the side mountings in a car dont need to stop engine turn just hold the weight of the engine then the one underneith at the back stops the engine turning

email me ill email you a bit of a pic i can draw for you if you like fiestars_54@hotmail.com

11th December 2008, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastroadkid69

stuck on the mounts at the minute, been telled to cut the inner wings out the escort and fabricate them to the saxo? not sure though, any sugestions guys?

spaceframe the front. So much neater.

Here's how I am putting the Honda engine in my 309

The previous attempt trial fit keeping the inner wings (ford ones) Just wasn't working for me

11th December 2008, 20:09

see what you mean with useing the inner wings, space frame it is then, what tubeing you used there buddy, looks like a decent job too that, how long it take you to fab up the spaceframe and drop it in, or did you build it in situ? cheers for all your advice guys.

12th December 2008, 19:24

ford all the way mate good choice of engine.there reliable if done right.just remember the cvh was designed in the late 70's and there still used and tuned today.same with cossie engine .bottom end is only a pinto.that must say something for them.reason why rs's break is that people crank up boost.and runs lean.if you renew all the parts of rs engine it's reliable and get them mapped right there great.i've a rs in my mk3 xr3 and never had a problem with it.go for it.

13th December 2008, 17:51

yeah thats right, i no a fare bit about the old ford lumps, they do stand up well to a nice bit of bhp, but like you said they have got to be built right and the mapping must be spot on, i no the mapping will be done to perfection has the guy who is doing it is excellant at doing this he does it day in day out, the mounts are sorted now aswell, ive used escort mk4 diesel mounts, but one of the mounting holes has to be cut of and welded on the side and jobs a gooden, been cleaning the engine up lately, im gonna paint the block blue, with a union jack flag on the rocker cover aswell, then ive got to refurb the 4pot callipers because they been stood a few months since the car was crashed, and i want everything perfect, and then send the wheels of to be refurbed in anthercite powder coat, tommorow ile be working on the car with a couple of friends helping out, 1 will be doing the seam welding on the shell for extra strenth, ile be cleaning up the underside of the car and then giving it a coat of underseal, other will be taking out the dash to dent of to be flocked. should be fun eh lol

13th December 2008, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by necro

ford all the way mate good choice of engine.there reliable if done right.just remember the cvh was designed in the late 70's and there still used and tuned today.same with cossie engine .bottom end is only a pinto.that must say something for them.reason why rs's break is that people crank up boost.and runs lean.if you renew all the parts of rs engine it's reliable and get them mapped right there great.i've a rs in my mk3 xr3 and never had a problem with it.go for it.

not sure the cossie had a pinto bottom end?

13th December 2008, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastroadkid69

not sure the cossie had a pinto bottom end?

Yes it did, it was only the head that gave it the Cosworth tag

13th December 2008, 23:48

what gearbox you going for. if your going for cheapish option i recommend a reconned rs16i gearbox and i do believe that it's personall preference about slip diff i think the rs drive better without.rsi gearbox is better geared than turbo to.people forget why rs's break it's because there all over 20 years old.when you start replacing bits you need to do it all.not just one at a time.or your gonna get a weak link.anyway thats my tupance worth.

14th December 2008, 11:45

do it mate sounds mint! would be quick even if not 100% reliable, i blew 4 engines up i my rst, one was on the rollers just after been fitted, turned out to be a electrical fault from the dizzy! just do it

14th December 2008, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

i've got several mates with mk4 escort rsturbo's, all of which break down more often than they change their underwear. Their are plenty of better engines you could put in it or just leave the engine that is already in it. Seriously, people won't say 'wow, he's got an rsturbo lump in that' they will say, 'what an idiot, why would anyone got to all that effort to put an unreliable engine in their car'.
Unless you want to constantly have your hand in your pocket, shelling out for new bits for your engine and being sat at the side of the road waiting for recovery then i wouldn't bother! sorry to sound so negative!

agreed. go for the vtec lump

19th December 2008, 15:16

ive been busy recently, ive got the mounts in and sorted job done, engine build now underway, ive got the block back and head from the port n polish, head has been skimmed, with three angles cut into the valve seats, witch will help improve the airflow both into and out of the cylinder head, the head has been skimmed to get my desired compression ratio, i had the work done by andy at cylinder head devolpments he does a lot of work with ford stuff, so he was the right man for the job, his work is brilliant, my head and block look like new now, so far ive got the crank in with new bearings etc, also piston and rods are in using arp conrod bolts. rs1800 oil pump on and water pump aswell, then the sump went on, thats about as far is we have got for now, the comp ratio is at 8.2:1, im going to use the focus st170 gearbox, will be alot stronger and also shes got 6 gears so will be good for top speed runs, ive used vibratechnics mounts, ile put some pics up of the mounts in situ once i now how to,the shell will be going over to my mates garage after xmas to be painted carnt wait to see what its gonna look like in imperial blue yummah

, wheels have gone to be refurbed as one was kerbed badly and my mate doesnt do wheel refurbes just resprays only, it will be inside and out with a anthercite cage to match the rims comp mos, thats all the updates for now, cheers

.

7th January 2009, 15:22

well not updated in a while, recently ive got a fare bit done, the engine is complete, its going of to my mtes to be timed up to perfection, then on to the dyno to be mapped after that hoping for 300bhp max no more, the shell is at the painters being finished, the cage is in and its attached to the turrets aswell propa job, cage is painted anthrecite to match the wheels, which i still havent got round to picking up yey from the refurb, the shell should be finished bye the end of the week, so ile pick that up then i can get cracking on with the assembly work, hopeing to have it finished for march time at the latest. thats all i got done for now, cheers everyone

7th January 2009, 18:26

Ford....ahahahahahahaha. lolroflmao.