reckon my engines seized

  1. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #1
    gonna have a look at it in the morning but cant get it to start at all

    came up to a roundabout when i was out driving so i stuck it into third gear. as i was coming onto the roundabout i went to acclerate but it felt like there was no power there to give so moved down to second. same feeling, so i glanced at the rev counter and it was down at 0. rolled off the roundabout thinking i'd stalled it by trying to be in third.

    engine wouldn't start or even turn over for that matter

    when i put the key in and try the ignition, the dash lights dim but it won't attempt to turn over. anyone got any ideas at the moment?
  2. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #2
    there any sound when you try and start it? did it make any noises when it died?
  3. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #3
    no noise that i noticed when it died. just the obvious lack of power..

    trying to start it, the fuel pump primes, the dash lights dim and the solenoid on the starter motor can be heard moving into place but it wont turn over. the engine seems solid.

    i put the car in gear and tried rocking the car back and forward while my dad was looking through the hole in the rocker cover (where the oil cap goes) but there was no movement from the cams
  4. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #4
    put a socket & ratchet on the crank pulley and try turn the engine over like that. did it roll along in gear when it died?
  5. Established Member Joined: May 2008 Basingstoke Posts: 1680 Subaru Impreza Newage WRX
    #5
    would the wheels not have locked up if the engine was seized?
  6. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #6
    yeah i'm pretty sure it was running in gear which made me think i'd satlled it. it's only been on the road this week as it got mot'd and taxed after getting an "s" conversion from RCD...

    the wheels move fine as it had to get towed 20 miles back home again

    my dad or maybe just me are going to try and move the engine manually tommorow like you said williamsvts
  7. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2007 Posts: 16839 Saxo VTS, Westfield
    #7
    Im probably way out but i would check the earth leads in the engine bay and also check the battery, maybe the alternator hasnt been charging and it just drained the battery, this would explain why the lights on the dash are dull.

    Im sure that if the engine had seized it wouldnt just die, you would expect horrible noises.
  8. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #8
    you wouldnt be able to move it whilst in gear if the engine was seized.
  9. Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2008 Kidderminster Posts: 246 Saxo VTR MK2 (Black) 2.0 20v Fiat Marea Turbo
    #9
    If you engine seized it would of more than likely smashed the cams. The engine would of just died. I reckon there just isn't any power to start it. Or keep it going. Lol. Shit battery or shit alternator! Easy fix if it is those. engine seized on one of my old cars. And trust me, you can tell when it does. Lol.
  10. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #10
    i take it just goes "bang" if it seizes?

    j222jra: the lights only dim when i turn the key to try and start the engine. theyre normal otherwise.

    don't think its the battery as i had the stereo and headlights on all the way home...
  11. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2007 Posts: 16839 Saxo VTS, Westfield
    #11
    Yeap the lights only go dim when you turn the key because before that the battery is just powering them and they use hardly any power.

    When the key is turned the larger power is required to crank the starter over.

    Get a multimeter and check the batterys voltage.
  12. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #12
    will do but still doesnt explain the lack of movement with the cams when trying to rocking the car back and forward...
  13. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2007 Posts: 16839 Saxo VTS, Westfield
    #13
    Heres a simple test, turn the ignition on ( not to start) turn the headlights on and the stereo etc and see if they work as they should.......

    This will show you if the battery has much power.
  14. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #14
    not going out now as its freezing but they work fine
  15. Regular Poster Joined: Feb 2008 coventry Posts: 275 black and silver race car vtr, many saxo projects
    #15
    sounds to me like the alternator is fu**ed, its not the battery as the car would stay running once it was going if the battery was nackerd as it would run of alternator power, i think the alternator is nackerd, this would explain the reason why the lights are dim and why the car just stopped, if it was running on battery power only once it gets past a certain part it wont have enough power to open the injectors or to turn the car over.


    as for camshaft movement, you cant see the camshafts on a saxo (i cant remember on vts) on my vtrs there is a splash gaurd covering them preventing you from seeing the movement.

    but if you can see them, and they are not moving in gear, it sounds like camshaft was incorrectly tensioned when you had the engine fitted and the cambelt has either snapped or came off.
  16. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #16
    i know the splash guard your on about as i had to change the rocker cover gasket on my vtr but you can see right into the vts cams.

    if the cambelt has snapped/come off is the engine useless like if a timing belt goes?

    (for those in the know, it was rcd that fitted the engine and apparently ross bought it as refurbed engine. the "re-furb" was a piss poor job for starters as it wasn't even timed in properly!)
  17. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #17
    can you not take it back to rcd ?
  18. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #18
    pagey if you get a chance check all electrical connection and bolts are in right. RCD did conversion on a lads gti and only 1 bolt was holding the starter in!! and loads of wires apparantly tangled up in the gear linkages.

    First off check the wires to starter motor are ok with the nuts still on, then check all 3 the bolts holding it are in, also check the alternator wires are ok. Other than that try what marc said and turn the crank over by hand and see if it turns, if it does whip the cam covers off and check what the cams are like.

    Other than that it can happen, I had similar thing on my old ax vtr was driving along fine then suddenly it kangaroo'd a bit power died had nothing and wasn't even tunring over. Turned out starter motor was wankered
  19. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #19
    and theyre where exactly

    even if ross is gonna be back trading under "RCD" then hes 600 miles away.


    cheers fowks, this is just the latest in a series of crappy things to happen in my life so i'm prob taking it worse than i should....

    i'll spend tommorow under the bonnet/car and check everythin thats been mentioned
  20. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #20
    starter is on the back of the engine bolted to the box you reach round its like under the back of the inlet near enough you will have wires a small thin one 8mm nut and 2 fat ones one from the loom itself and one from the battery 13mm that one. Also you got 3 bolts holding the starter on to, bit of a misson with the 16v lump in there but perfectly doable.

    Other than that Id just go over it with your dad or a mate and check everything.
  21. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #21
    my "and theyre where exactly " reply was to vtec-saxo regarding returning the engine to rcd but thanks for the location detail
  22. Established Member Joined: Feb 2008 yorkshire Posts: 1152 black mk2 vtr
    #22
    sounds like the earth cable to body to engine..get the earth cable from some jump leads then from battery to engine best place is the ring that helps taking engine out on top but sand it down first to get a good earth then try that. to rule out the earth strap
  23. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Yeovil Posts: 172 Mk2 vtr, 106 gti
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mtpagey View Post
    i know the splash guard your on about as i had to change the rocker cover gasket on my vtr but you can see right into the vts cams.

    if the cambelt has snapped/come off is the engine useless like if a timing belt goes?

    (for those in the know, it was rcd that fitted the engine and apparently ross bought it as refurbed engine. the "re-furb" was a piss poor job for starters as it wasn't even timed in properly!)
    Cambelt is timing belt mate, sounds to me like it's snapped, if ur lucky u'll get away with replacing the belt, head gasket and all 8 valves, other wise you myt have broken the rocker shaft, just remove the top cambelt cover and have a look at the belt
  24. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Yeovil Posts: 172 Mk2 vtr, 106 gti
    #24
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by furioFELL View Post
    Cambelt is timing belt mate, sounds to me like it's snapped, if ur lucky u'll get away with replacing the belt, head gasket and all 8 valves, other wise you myt have broken the rocker shaft, just remove the top cambelt cover and have a look at the belt
    sorry mate all 16 valves, u'd be hard pushed to smash a cam in half trust n na ur engine won't be scrap but it will be a few pennys to fix, snapped cambelts are fairly common in my world, just get a guide on head bolt torques n stuff before or if you carry out any work, technical details are mega important on engines
  25. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #25
    fingers crossed anyway. might bite the bullet and go buy a runaround for a few hundred £ to get my by while i sort this fiasco out

    would've done it before but it was meant to be a 3 day job (max)
  26. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #26
    pagey on another note if the enigne is buggered fuck it off and get a C2 engine in there all you need to do is swap a few things over tap the head for the inlet bobs your uncle newer lower mileage probably more power to

    allt he best anyway mate never nice to see another french car owner have so many problems after spending so much aswell
  27. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #27
    the cambelt would be easily identifiable if its failed...

    check that and then if that is okay. I'd start looking for an electrical fault.
  28. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2007 Posts: 16839 Saxo VTS, Westfield
    #28
    Has any progress been made with the car yet mate? I still think it to be an electrical fault if the lights go dim when you turn the key.

    Hope its nothing major anyway.
  29. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #29
    the cambelt's fine, still in 1 piece and tight.

    electrical fault may be part of the problem but when putting the car in gear then rocking it back and forth, the actual engine moves cause the internals are jammed solid.

    theres no movement from anything

    thinking of cutting my losses and just getting myself another posi vts
  30. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #30
    the engine will move in the bay pushig the car in gear

    best way to see if its seized jact the car up (and stand it very strudily this bit is important!!) take the cam belt covers off and remove the bottom bit of them too

    stick a socket on the crank bolt and try to try the motor withe a big bar (hence its gotta be very secure on stands) if it even slightly spins the motor isnt seized

    to me it sounds more like an alternator failure (i only skim read the thread so dunno if youve ruled that out) that or something electrical has gone so best bet is a diagnostic check at a garage
  31. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2006 The Lang Toun Posts: 4133 Mk2 Clio V6 #007 of 354
    #31
    when i'm in a better mood i'll give it a go

    i've got a garage for the car so storing it isn't really a problem. got to the point where i need a working car though, managed 10/12 weeks with the vtr off the road and now this. wondering where to draw the line cause even if i do get this engine sorted and running, its gonna be another £500ish to get a new gearbox and clutch fitted.
  32. Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2222
    #32
    I just thoight of something Pagey.

    When I had problems with my car it was the ignition switch.
    I couldn't strat the car and when it was going it would die after 10seconds, then when I was going along the dualcarigeway all the electrics died, but the engine was still on.

    May or may not be of help here Martin just reminded me of the problem I had with my car.

    Hope you get it going again soon, I mean the first time you take it out and it dies.
  33. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Yorkshire Posts: 5415 Saxo
    #33
    Your engine wont have just seized. It takes alot to seize an engine, there built with alot of tolerances in mind. You'd have heard the engine tapping, the engine lights would have come on way before it cut out and the engine would have been red hot. And for it to get in that state when your ideally keeping an eye on it after the conv to make sure no sensors drop off etc would be shocking.

    Do exactly as Alex-VTS says to try and crank the engine, any other way isnt going to give you the info you want.

    Then when it does turn over do what Sophia Bush says and get the starter checked. You could even take it out and wire it up rough to see if it moves just watch your fingers, it wont think twice about pulling them off.

    All you need is a weekend and a multimeter.
  34. Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 manchester Posts: 1704 vtr turbo
    #34
    when you say you rock back and forward. does that mean it will still move when its in gear
  35. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 peterborough Posts: 2861 2003 black vtr current escort van lol 2006 ford
    #35
    i had this by what your say but was a simple problem wire had snapped from alternator to battery for charging but was still touching anoth not to keep battery light on but yet it was not anoth to keep battery charged if so as what happened to me was driving night wiper on etc and started to slow down no power as you said but yet radio and ignition lights stil light up just dim once wire replace and battery charged was fine easy test to see it will go even with dead battery try bump tarting the car
  36. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.
    #36
    The more & more I read this thread makes me 99% sure your alternator is buggered mate.


    Steve.