200bhp.

10th December 2008, 20:59

What would it take to get 200 brake from a vts engine? Without turbo or supercharge. How much would it cost aswell?

Cheers.

10th December 2008, 21:01

it would take alot of work.

Id budget about 6-8k

and you will have such a wild cam the standard gearboxes will not be much use to keeping it in the narrow powerband.

TBs
solid grind mad cam
headowrk
forged itnernals

etc

10th December 2008, 21:04

Just remember Bic took it about as far as it'd go and that was 206bhp iirc. So think, a lot, lol.

10th December 2008, 21:05

Wheres the best place to get the work done?

10th December 2008, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

Just remember Bic took it about as far as it'd go and that was 206bhp iirc. So think, a lot, lol.

Was that at the flywheel or wheels?

10th December 2008, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

Just remember Bic took it about as far as it'd go and that was 206bhp iirc. So think, a lot, lol.

except PSA get about 220-230 depending on stage spec.

10th December 2008, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by benkelsall

Wheres the best place to get the work done?

longmans if you have a psare 10k iirc thats what the estimated cost is with them.

QEP are no longer building engines i recall so GMC would be my choice.

10th December 2008, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by benkelsall

Was that at the flywheel or wheels?

Fly, I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

except PSA get about 220-230 depending on stage spec.

Yeah, but look at how long between rebuilds.

10th December 2008, 21:10

bics was at the fly, to be 206 atw would need to be alot more at the fly even with the sadeev and lower transmission losses,

his bhp figure was also on a dyno not a rolling road iirc.

10th December 2008, 21:11

Dave sharps vts had 190 or so @ wheels had major amount of work done to it

Tb
lots of head work
massive cams
forged rods
forged hi comp pistons

Gmc seem to do very good work both using boost and also building na engines

10th December 2008, 21:13

no way would it have been 190 at the wheels.

10th December 2008, 21:24

Is this bic's car.. ?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2fYz5UbkYQ4

http://www.racedandrallied.com/detai...1&show_still=1

10th December 2008, 21:27

yes he sold the tu engine and now has a modified XU iirc. 270bhp 2.0L

the thing is that car ran the sadeev box which makes a BIG difference.

10th December 2008, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

except PSA get about 220-230 depending on stage spec.

That was also restricted by quite strict regulations. Maximum compression ratio, Maximum inlet size and Maximum RPM are all restricted. Water injection, Variable valve timing, Variable valve lift, Variable inlet geometry and variable exhaust geometry were all band.

10th December 2008, 22:22

400bhp is possible from these engines look at a project from Turbo_sax on SSC he is now eating through BE boxes.

200bhp can be achieved from a turbo kit and omex or a supercharger kit and forged bottom end

maybe a few other goodies IE KMS lol

10th December 2008, 22:24

he said no boost though lol

be a big build to do (as im planning)
and as ryans said 6k+to get it sorted out

10th December 2008, 22:25

Want to keep it N/A tho..

10th December 2008, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr-tec

400bhp is possible from these engines look at a project from Turbo_sax on SSC he is now eating through BE boxes.

200bhp can be achieved from a turbo kit and omex or a supercharger kit and forged bottom end

maybe a few other goodies IE KMS lol

all of which are irrelevant to the question he asked

10th December 2008, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by benkelsall

Want to keep it N/A tho..

Its perfectly possible and GMC will be happy to sell you all the parts to do it. But without a close ratio gearbox it will be a bit fruitless. I say this as the engine will produce power so far up the rev range and over such a short power band that the standard box is far to long and to spaced out.

10th December 2008, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXracing

Its perfectly possible and GMC will be happy to sell you all the parts to do it. But without a close ratio gearbox it will be a bit fruitless. I say this as the engine will produce power so far up the rev range and over such a short power band that the standard box is far to long and to spaced out.

i even find my s2 box with the 803s isnt really right.

sadly the sadev 5 speed or CUP be3 box only seem to have ratios that will give me a max speed of 100-110mph at 8k

10th December 2008, 22:36

What box would be needed then?

10th December 2008, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by benkelsall

What box would be needed then?

a close ratio gearset is best for that sort of engine.

PSA do one as do quaife, or sadev gearboxes etc...

10th December 2008, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

i even find my s2 box with the 803s isnt really right.

sadly the sadev 5 speed or CUP be3 box only seem to have ratios that will give me a max speed of 100-110mph at 8k

How fast do you need to go

10th December 2008, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXracing

How fast do you need to go

brands i was doing 120 down the straight with the s2 box, and thats a short straight, obviously the ring is even more.

If i could get a decent gear kit suited to my engine that would give me a 130-140 top end at 8k id be happy tbh.

that sadev 5 speed is lovely on the c2r2 just id need a custom final drive from sadev (if they would even do one for me) plus 5k for the box

10th December 2008, 22:44

ryan, get the close ratio gear set and fit 18" wheels..... job done.

some people think about peak power figure too much imo.. some would spend endless amount on a engine then leave the gearbox wich i think is just as important especially on high revving n/a car.
ask your self if you want to spend 7k'ish on a engine, then 3k'ish on the gearbox if not then expect someone with less more durable powr to be just as quick if not quicker.

10th December 2008, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

ryan, get the close ratio gear set and fit 18" wheels..... job done.
.

I be pimped yo!

if i ran 17s think of the slicks i can get LOL!

10th December 2008, 22:51

Sorry to say you are never going to get a 5 speed box that will pull all the way to 140mph form a normally exasperated TU engine. You may consider using a GTI6 box with a MA bell housing. Then fit the LSD to your liking and work out the final drive from you max speed and desired speed.

10th December 2008, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

I be pimped yo!

if i ran 17s think of the slicks i can get LOL!

holy shit, some ex bttc would be on the cards me thinks.
i just had a image where i see the vtR on track with some chrome 17" on slicks

ryan, what profile tyre you on?? as i calculated with some 205/50/15 and a 7.8k rpm and s2 rallye box i could do 150'ish mph, does that sound about right.??

10th December 2008, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXracing

Sorry to say you are never going to get a 5 speed box that will pull all the way to 140mph form a normally exasperated TU engine. You may consider using a GTI6 box with a MA bell housing. Then fit the LSD to your liking and work out the final drive from you max speed and desired speed.

Jar i know, id be happy with 130 tbh, and getting there very very quickly, I was thinking the quaife gearset with the VTs final drive could be considered, as heard that gives a good spread, yet they seem to break input shafts iirc..

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

holy shit, some ex bttc would be on the cards me thinks.
i just had a image where i see the vtR on track with some chrome 17" on slicks

ryan, what profile tyre you on?? as i calculated with some 205/50/15 and a 7.8k rpm and s2 rallye box i could do 150'ish mph, does that sound about right.??

im on 195-50-15 with the R888s, see the gear calculator on shed mate

I dont know max speed on s2 box, ive only seen 140(ish)

TBH if i went bigger wheels to have BTCC slicks i would fit some chavvy chrome shit for sheer comedy value LOL!

10th December 2008, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

im on 195-50-15 with the R888s, see the gear calculator on shed mate

I dont know max speed on s2 box, ive only seen 140(ish)

TBH if i went bigger wheels to have BTCC slicks i would fit some chavvy chrome shit for sheer comedy value LOL!

yh man, used the calculator. anything over 140mph is good..

maybe it wasntjust an image in my head but a premanition and it might happen......(goes on ebay to search for some bling)

10th December 2008, 23:12

not gonna happen anyway,

any news on the TD rimmmmmmaaeeeegeeee..

10th December 2008, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

not gonna happen anyway,

any news on the TD rimmmmmmaaeeeegeeee..

there should be a lot of answers for tommorow. our driver is on holiday so ive been driving for the last few days so havnt had time to speak to the buyer but been told by the MD that its being sorted.

10th December 2008, 23:17

cheers matey!!!

iv found a set of 15 full slicks but im crap on the race dimensions lol so donno if they fit

11th December 2008, 17:48

200bhp sounds a hell of a lot without boost. why dont u want SC or TC mate? it would be a lot cheaper and easier with boost.

11th December 2008, 19:32

How much would you be looking at to get 200bhp with TC or SC ?

11th December 2008, 19:34

3.5k. dependant if you can build it yourself.

11th December 2008, 19:36

and it would probably be more reliable aswell.

11th December 2008, 19:38

and chunks more torque, wich is important.

11th December 2008, 20:16

well for less than a grand you have 200bhp and approx 250 lbs/ft torque.
1. Nitrous kit with 75 bhp jet (which a tu engine WILL handle)
2. hench clutch so it doesn't slip as soon as you hit the magic button
3. Sticky tyres to reduce the chances of spinning as soon as hit the magic button

cheap and easy power.

11th December 2008, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

well for less than a grand you have 200bhp and approx 250 lbs/ft torque.
1. Nitrous kit with 75 bhp jet (which a tu engine WILL handle)
2. hench clutch so it doesn't slip as soon as you hit the magic button
3. Sticky tyres to reduce the chances of spinning as soon as hit the magic button

cheap and easy power.

and keep filling it up all the time??

and 250lbs torque??? elaborate.

a clutch to take 250lbs ft will cost about £450.

11th December 2008, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

and it would probably be more reliable aswell.

Id say the other way round tbh.

Most highly tuned NA engines have ALOT less problems than boosted from specs over the years,

11th December 2008, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Id say the other way round tbh.

Most highly tuned NA engines have ALOT less problems than boosted from specs over the years,

well see when i get the blower

later on this year ill find out how reliable they are.

11th December 2008, 21:23

good point but if he has got a seriously wild cam then it aint gonna idle well, so wont really be very reliable, but then again there is more to go wrong on a boosted car sooo. i dont know lol

11th December 2008, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

good point but if he has got a seriously wild cam then it aint gonna idle well, so wont really be very reliable, but then again there is more to go wrong on a boosted car sooo. i dont know lol

the idle wont effect reliability, its max rpm that is needed to reach power of an N/A engine.

11th December 2008, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

good point but if he has got a seriously wild cam then it aint gonna idle well, so wont really be very reliable, but then again there is more to go wrong on a boosted car sooo. i dont know lol

idle means sod all in reliability.

A good idle or bad idle doesnt mean a reliable or unreliable engine lol

and my 803s idle perfectly well once the engine is warm.

11th December 2008, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

well see when i get the blower

later on this year ill find out how reliable they are.

you know what i mean though mate, how many badly running boosted engines have we seen over the years, or poorly set up ones with slipping belts etc..

11th December 2008, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

you know what i mean though mate, how many badly running boosted engines have we seen over the years, or poorly set up ones with slipping belts etc..

yh man, probably all of them have had issues. i think there will be a couple of reliable ones soon enough, there is a chappy with a s/c black gti called steve. very good spec indeed and his has run reliably on track for 2 years but thats one of the few i know.

oh and ive got a bit of info on carbon jaaa. (pm you)

11th December 2008, 22:21

awaits pm.

12th December 2008, 18:59

I don't like alternators!

12th December 2008, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr130

I don't like alternators!

lol, not heard from you for a while, how things witht the car mate?

12th December 2008, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

lol, not heard from you for a while, how things witht the car mate?

Been better mate, i have a hatred for alternators at the moment mate. They just keep breaking on my car.

There causing it to run like shite, but i will get it fixed when i'm back from uni for free. I've also destroyed my gearbox mount which is fun

Apart from that it's ok....

Hows yours mate? Any updates?

12th December 2008, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr130

Been better mate, i have a hatred for alternators at the moment mate. They just keep breaking on my car.

There causing it to run like shite, but i will get it fixed when i'm back from uni for free. I've also destroyed my gearbox mount which is fun

Apart from that it's ok....

Hows yours mate? Any updates?

shit luck, look at my suggestion on other thread.

no "proper" engine updates as yet but ive got mankee building me a s2 rallye box with quaife

13th December 2008, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

and keep filling it up all the time??

and 250lbs torque??? elaborate.

a clutch to take 250lbs ft will cost about £450.

it was a rough guess because mine went on the rollers with the line leaking and the wrong plugs in the car, i got 38bhp from a 50bhp shot and 71lbs/ft of torque.
so with a 75bhp shot set up properly, i'd guess you'd see close on that amount of torque.

yeah, its a pain filling up all the time, but you get the most power for your ££ than any other way. Just a suggestion.

13th December 2008, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

it was a rough guess because mine went on the rollers with the line leaking and the wrong plugs in the car, i got 38bhp from a 50bhp shot and 71lbs/ft of torque.
so with a 75bhp shot set up properly, i'd guess you'd see close on that amount of torque.

yeah, its a pain filling up all the time, but you get the most power for your ££ than any other way. Just a suggestion.

have you got a rolling road pic?? not to prove, im just interested in how it would look..

13th December 2008, 21:40

I've got a nitrous kit

But i get free refils... (I sound like a fat american) and the nitrous kit was free with free fitting

13th December 2008, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr130

I've got a nitrous kit

But i get free refils... (I sound like a fat american) and the nitrous kit was free with free fitting

not abad price lol, (the joys of being a student ehhh

)

13th December 2008, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr130

I've got a nitrous kit

But i get free refils... (I sound like a fat american) and the nitrous kit was free with free fitting

what BHP nitrous you using? and how do you get free refills, and how was it free and free fiiting? bargain of the century.

13th December 2008, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

what BHP nitrous you using? and how do you get free refills, and how was it free and free fiiting? bargain of the century.

Sponsors mate.... Only 50 shot mate, as i'm running a 190bhp n/a engine on high comps!