Limiter...

  1. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #1
    Herd that all cars now have a limiter (Which i know what it is.. to stop blowing your engine that easy)

    Right... Watched a few vids on youtube and all them have hit the limiter (Saxo's). I've hit my limiter once, lost all power in gear 1 and 2 so had to continue in gear 3 (Embarrashing when giving a corsa a go from the marks ). I shat my self thinking i blew my engine (At the time i didn't know what a limiter was).

    I was wondering if all the gears have a limiter or is it just gear 1 and neutral?

    Example.. Going 80MPH in gear 4.. car sounds like its going to explode but nothing happens (Soon changes gear ). And in gear 2 i can get 45 or there abouts and nothing happens.

    Bearing in mine i have a Mk1 1.1 '98 (Engine not thrashed, its well looked after.. I Let it get well warm before giving it beans and i change filters oil and sparks every few months.)

    So do all gears have a limiter? and i assume its bad practice and not good for the car if you keep hitting the limiter? I herd you can hit the limiter a few times in one hit before your engine blows?

    Cheers Buds
  2. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #2
    the limiter stops the engine revving past a set RPM. its nothing to do with gears or gearbox. a rev limiter cuts either spark or fuel or both. i wouldnt worry too much about hitting the rev limiter, mine does it on a regular basis and has done for the last 4 year and its still going strong.
  3. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Hemel Hempstead Posts: 1013 Citroen Saxo 16v 1.6 VTS '99 (Pearlescent Blue/Red
    #3
    Well a rev limiter is there to protect your engine, so theoretically it is set so you can do it as many times as you like without nuking your engine, but I wouldnt hold it there!

    It applies to all gears as it is based on revs, so it doesnt matter what gear you are in. When it hits a certain rev limit it wil not allow you to go any further and cuts the revs automatically. Read that it was 6000 but Im not sure of that.
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  4. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #4
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bpm View Post
    Well a rev limiter is there to protect your engine, so theoretically it is set so you can do it as many times as you like without nuking your engine, but I wouldnt hold it there!

    It applies to all gears as it is based on revs, so it doesnt matter what gear you are in. When it hits a certain rev limit it wil not allow you to go any further and cuts the revs automatically. Read that it was 6000 but Im not sure of that.
    Nuke my engine lol

    Well i know the 1100's are only supposed to rev up to 5500RPM roughly?

    So no limiter = No engine?

    I saw Stick at the scrappy the other day (Scrap Yard Owner) and was obv seeing if a engine was ok. Parked my car behind this Metro and he was reving the fuck out of it and it was fine untill about 5 or 6 limit revs then a load of black smoke came out but engine was still going strong (My car covered in soot)

    So techinally i could reach more then 60mph in gear 3mph or more then 80mph in gear 4? Like you said it cuts the spark or fuel (Which i knew about the fuel, not the spark) What happens then? Is it like a stall or you only have to change gears for it to work again? Like i said i've only done it once.

    Cheers Buds
  5. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #5
    it will just hit the limiter and no go any faster, basicly its when say you get to the limiter in 2nd gear, thers no more pull / speed left in that gear and wont go any faster so time to change, say when your riding a push bike in 8th gear you slam it in 1st you wont be able to pedal because youv pedald that gear out
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  6. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Hemel Hempstead Posts: 1013 Citroen Saxo 16v 1.6 VTS '99 (Pearlescent Blue/Red
    #6
    Nah it should just be a very quick temporary thing that just automatically (one way or another) backs off the revs. Theoretically if you held youre foot down youd just bounce back and hit the limiter again and again!
  7. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #7
    for the engine to increase its RPM you need more air, more fuel and a spark. so if it cuts fuel or spark then the engine cant increase its RPM.
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  8. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #8
    Cheers Fellas

    Not really liking hitting the rev's though as it's almost a 11 year old engine thats done 72K.
  9. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #9
    mines done 94k and loves it at 7.8k rpm, doesnt do them any harm.
  10. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6
    #10
    drive it like its stolen and all that lol
  11. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #11
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williamsvts View Post
    mines done 94k and loves it at 7.8k rpm, doesnt do them any harm.
    Yours is a VTS.. I bet my clock dosn't even have 7.8K on it. I just have a clock (tick tock clock)

    VTS are apparently good when they get into the high end of the rev counter.
  12. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #12
    still wont fuck your engine though. aslong as its well looked after.
  13. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Hemel Hempstead Posts: 1013 Citroen Saxo 16v 1.6 VTS '99 (Pearlescent Blue/Red
    #13
    Yeah Im driving a VTS as well, and its only happy after 6000 revs.
  14. Frequent Poster Joined: Aug 2007 Swanley,Kent Posts: 866 saxo vtr
    #14
    i'm not brave enough to push my cammed vtr above 6k as my limiter is raised but fuck knows what to i haven't hit it yet.
  15. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #15
    pointless camming it if your not going to drive at higher revs imo.
  16. Frequent Poster Joined: Aug 2007 Swanley,Kent Posts: 866 saxo vtr
    #16
    i drive at high revs jsut not over 6 k peak power is at about 5600 anyway so little point.
  17. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #17
    More Revs.. More Fuel is how i see it but IDC!
  18. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS
    #18
    no real probs smashing it off the limiter, but on any standard saxo engine there is little point. Mainly because torque is all but gone by that point and you'd have more acceleration shifting into the next gear than you would as you approach the limiter.

    Secondly, instantaneous blasts to the limiter are ok, holding the rpm there for ages is not ok. More motion + more friction + more explosions = more heat which a standard oil system hasn't a hope of dispersing the heat quickly enough.... short blasts are fine and can generally be dealt with without engine damage. blah blah
  19. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #19
    limiter goes bwaaaaarrrrp bap bap bap bap

    in my saxos and the 106 ive only hit the limiter a handful of times (the 205 had no limiter)
    and most of it was on the 1.1 (going from nearly 8k limited car to just over 6 lol)

    doing it constantly will end up ruining the car as like sayer says the oil system cant cope

    but the odd 1 will make no difference
  20. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adsayer View Post
    no real probs smashing it off the limiter, but on any standard saxo engine there is little point. Mainly because torque is all but gone by that point and you'd have more acceleration shifting into the next gear than you would as you approach the limiter.

    Secondly, instantaneous blasts to the limiter are ok, holding the rpm there for ages is not ok. More motion + more friction + more explosions = more heat which a standard oil system hasn't a hope of dispersing the heat quickly enough.... short blasts are fine and can generally be dealt with without engine damage. blah blah
    A secondry oil system? we're getting to techinal.. its only a 1100 lol.

    I would had thought the same more friction, more heat and engine cooks and seises. Only made the limiter peak about 4 times then the engine went dead like i said

    I don't like to hit the revs to much.. damages the 11 year old engine (well almost) and will cost money if it goes wrong.

    On a side note: What engine feels like you have boost when your in the high rev zone? IE.. you get to a certian rev and the car just kicks in and flys.
  21. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #21
    Like my dad says and everyone else i speak to.. A car will run for ages if you look after it and replace parts as soon as they look worn out.
  22. Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Watford Posts: 590 Boosted 16v VTR
    #22
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dannyboy2005 View Post

    On a side note: What engine feels like you have boost when your in the high rev zone? IE.. you get to a certian rev and the car just kicks in and flys.

    VTEC yo
  23. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2008 Down't road from Sheffield Posts: 4641 Was:16v 106 XS ..... Now: Import 1.8 MX5
    #23
    Think your limit will be 6200 same as most of the 8vs, apart from the 106 Rallye, which is 7200 same as the VTS.
    But yeah, as said, nowt massively wrong with hitting it every now and then, just dont hold it there lol.
  24. Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye
    #24
    seen a saxo with a 8k limiter......

    she didnt last long.
  25. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #25
    mines got 7.8k and lasted a good 3yr with it like that.
  26. Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456
    #26
    the rev limit is past peak power and torque so there is no reason to take it up that high find when peak power or torque is and shift there
  27. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by frankie View Post
    seen a saxo with a 8k limiter......

    she didnt last long.
    ive seen a vts engined 205 with a 9k limiter
    dunno if its still going but as long as the internals are strong enough it should be ok
  28. Regular Poster Joined: Feb 2008 coventry Posts: 275 black and silver race car vtr, many saxo projects
    #28
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webby View Post
    the rev limit is past peak power and torque so there is no reason to take it up that high find when peak power or torque is and shift there
    not necisarily (or however its spelt lol) if your peak power is 5800rpm then you need to keep your revs as close as that all the time (in a racing situation) so if you change gear exactly at 5800, when the next gear is engaged the the revs will drop to. . say 4800, so you will loose more momentum from changing at the max power, then you would have going past it a bit, and then only be a bit below it in the next gear.

    hope this is understandable lol.
  29. Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Manchester Posts: 538
    #29
    Same as my old 50CC geared bike, the powerband (where most power is produced) started at 7k and went through to about 9.5k, it revs to 12k but pointless taking it there as power has gone, so if you upshift at 9k - 10k it will carry on accelerating, Not that it had that much power in the first place but thats what people are trying to say.

    On a VTS the max torque is produced at 5700.
  30. Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR
    #30
    dont most vtec's rev uptil around 8 naturally, i saw an old type civic the other day and i couldnt believe how far he went in 1st, it just kept goin and goin and oin, i couldnt believe it lol
  31. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #31
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VTRcraig View Post
    not necisarily (or however its spelt lol) if your peak power is 5800rpm then you need to keep your revs as close as that all the time (in a racing situation) so if you change gear exactly at 5800, when the next gear is engaged the the revs will drop to. . say 4800, so you will loose more momentum from changing at the max power, then you would have going past it a bit, and then only be a bit below it in the next gear.

    hope this is understandable lol.
    You are not really aiming to keep the revs at a single point.

    You should have a reasonably broad power band and the aim is to shift just before you leave it and when the revs drop in the new gear - to remain in the power band still.

    To do that on a cammed car with a very narrow power band requires a serious look at the gearing.
  32. Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456
    #32
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VTRcraig View Post
    not necisarily (or however its spelt lol) if your peak power is 5800rpm then you need to keep your revs as close as that all the time (in a racing situation) so if you change gear exactly at 5800, when the next gear is engaged the the revs will drop to. . say 4800, so you will loose more momentum from changing at the max power, then you would have going past it a bit, and then only be a bit below it in the next gear.

    hope this is understandable lol.

    yeah but usually it drops you straight back into the torque range and keeps the car on the boil.

    there is a usuable rev range to keep you zipping along.

    on my bike it had no go below 8.5k but then was out 12.5k even though it was limited at 14.5k. if you kept it between those rpm it flew up the box but if you ran it higher the bike felt sluggish an didnt pull as hard past 12.5k.

    its all dependent on driving style aswell.
  33. Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456
    #33
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KamRacing View Post
    You are not really aiming to keep the revs at a single point.

    You should have a reasonably broad power band and the aim is to shift just before you leave it and when the revs drop in the new gear - to remain in the power band still.

    To do that on a cammed car with a very narrow power band requires a serious look at the gearing.
    what i was trying to say just a bit clearer
  34. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #34
    Cheers

    I've hit the limiter now in 3 gears now. When you hit it and change gear it feels like your slipping the clutch. Surley it can't do your clutch any good? I understand its above peak torque for changing gears.

    Found i can do just over 70 in gear 3 :O

    My little car will be fooked lol.
  35. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2008 nurburgring Posts: 420 Saxo Vtr '51' (2001)
    #35
    v-tech power is from 6k to 8 and their gearbox is set out so that when you shift at 8k or what ever it is the next gear is always above 6k mark so its always on the power as everyone else has said you have to take it right to the very end of the power band then shift because if not your revs will end up lower than the power therefor having to struggle till you get back in the band

    kieran.
  36. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5
    #36
    when i floor it in 2nd or 3rd sometimes changing gear gets a little stiff i wont go any faster than 35 in 2nd gear tbh, since ive had my exhaust on its seemed to pull a little better
  37. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2008 nurburgring Posts: 420 Saxo Vtr '51' (2001)
    #37
    has yours got the dials or clocks , if its dials take it to 6k then shift see how it pulls lol

    kieran.
  38. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS
    #38
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dannyboy2005 View Post
    Cheers

    I've hit the limiter now in 3 gears now. When you hit it and change gear it feels like your slipping the clutch. Surley it can't do your clutch any good? I understand its above peak torque for changing gears.

    Found i can do just over 70 in gear 3 :O

    My little car will be fooked lol.
    I'd worry more about the engine than the clutch mate...
  39. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5
    #39
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kieranc07 View Post
    has yours got the dials or clocks , if its dials take it to 6k then shift see how it pulls lol

    kieran.
    ive got the clock on mine
  40. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #40
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John_1.1i View Post
    ive got the clock on mine
    +1

    Going to buy a rev counter.

    BTW.. I want just a rev counter, dont think i cba to wire in a new dash clock. What rev counter should i be looking at, like what range? Up to 7?

    cheers!

    Supersprint dose improve performance, afterall its a racing exhaust.

    Reason it pops out of gears i rekon is engine mount is soft and knocking gear linkages or the gear linkages are worn out.

    John.. Wait till we organise a track day.. You'll be pwned lol.
  41. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5
    #41
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dannyboy2005 View Post

    John.. Wait till we organise a track day.. You'll be pwned lol.
    hopfully i can get a chance to go

    depending on prices day, and location
  42. L-plater Joined: Oct 2008 shepshed Posts: 55 02 saxo vtr 98 bhp
    #42
    my vtr hits limmiter regularly, it shouldnt cause any damage cos the rev limiter is there to stop the engine going to fast to cause any damage, but like the other dude said dont bank on it protecting you engine forever, its is french and will probably let you down one day lol
  43. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2008 Down't road from Sheffield Posts: 4641 Was:16v 106 XS ..... Now: Import 1.8 MX5
    #43
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kieranc07 View Post
    v-tech power is from 6k to 8 and their gearbox is set out so that when you shift at 8k or what ever it is the next gear is always above 6k mark so its always on the power as everyone else has said you have to take it right to the very end of the power band then shift because if not your revs will end up lower than the power therefor having to struggle till you get back in the band
    VTEC not v-tech.
    1 user thanked this post:
  44. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jul 2006 Skopje Posts: 215 Citroen Saxo 1.6-16V VTS
    #44
    I have VTS and have modified chip. Standard up to 7200 and now to 8500. Race it almost a year and do not have any problems. When I made chip, after I have gone on the dino with the chip I got 21bhp and 38Nm.
  45. Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR
    #45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vlatko_vts View Post
    I have VTS and have modified chip. Standard up to 7200 and now to 8500. Race it almost a year and do not have any problems. When I made chip, after I have gone on the dino with the chip I got 21bhp and 38Nm.
    21bhp with a "chip" did you get the chip from ebay? if not you should of, i got 25bhp and it only cost me £3. you should have a look mate . PMSL

    P.S wtf is Nm??
  46. Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456
    #46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123 View Post
    21bhp with a "chip" did you get the chip from ebay? if not you should of, i got 25bhp and it only cost me £3. you should have a look mate . PMSL

    P.S wtf is Nm??
    nm= newton meters is used to express a measure of torque, just like lbft and people sometimes call remapping chipping so no need to get all high and mighty.
  47. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2008 nurburgring Posts: 420 Saxo Vtr '51' (2001)
    #47
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webby View Post
    nm= newton meters is used to express a measure of torque, just like lbft and people sometimes call remapping chipping so no need to get all high and mighty.

    ftlb even lol
  48. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2008 nurburgring Posts: 420 Saxo Vtr '51' (2001)
    #48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by titchster View Post
    VTEC not v-tech.
    had red squigilly line under it so i changed it till it didnt lol

    kieran.
  49. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #49
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kieranc07 View Post
    ftlb even lol
    he had it right 1st time, its lbft
  50. Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR
    #50
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webby View Post
    nm= newton meters is used to express a measure of torque, just like lbft and people sometimes call remapping chipping so no need to get all high and mighty.
    No need to get all high and mighty? the fella is talking about hime making a chip, he said " when i made chip ". i was only playing with him lol didnt men to cause offence i see people do things like that to people who say they have "chips" all the time on here, and they dont get told not to.
  51. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2008 The wrong carpark Posts: 5152 Xantia 1.9TD
    #51
    Won't kill it knocking it off the limiter, god knows i've done it a few times in first. jsut means your over the power band when you change up. when i get a tacho in the car i'll find out what rpm is best for changing at, at the moment i just guess!
  52. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #52
    how will you be over the power band when you change up?
  53. Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2004 plymouth United Kingdom (England) Posts: 146 mk1 blue vts
    #53
    when i had my vtr i was a bit young and immature, used to hit the limiter once or twice in some gears, used to sound mental tho, exhaust would pop big time, dont bother doin it in my vts, would rather use the power properly!
  54. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2008 nurburgring Posts: 420 Saxo Vtr '51' (2001)
    #54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williamsvts View Post
    he had it right 1st time, its lbft
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-pound_force
  55. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #55
    from that page

    1 horsepower (mechanical) = 33000 ft·lbf/min = 550 lb-ftf/s
  56. Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456
    #56
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williamsvts View Post
    from that page

    1 horsepower (mechanical) = 33000 ft·lbf/min = 550 lb-ftf/s
    thanks for having my back lol
  57. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2008 The wrong carpark Posts: 5152 Xantia 1.9TD
    #57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williamsvts View Post
    how will you be over the power band when you change up?
    theres no power at all above a certain rpm. ok, you won't be out of the power band, but you'll be nearer the top end of it and just end up having to shift again to actually get places!
  58. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #58
    I like it when i goes

    KA CHOOOOO KA CHOO KA CHOOOO

    I goes all funny inside and change gear

    Did it this eveing with 'Ma Bitch' in the car... She said Stop it this is a 30mph road (60MPH with stupid 30MPH signs coz of like 3 cones lol). Oh... It was scary..


    I'd never ever do it from a cold start.. Thats like suicide.
  59. Regular Poster Joined: May 2008 Posts: 448 Not a drop of halfords anywhere....
    #59
    the powerband in a vtr is bout 4 to 6 k need to change at 6 so it drops back to 4 in next gear. on my vts the powerband is bout 5 to 7. gta watch it tho cos its cammed and wen the k and n gen 2 kicks in with the cams at 5k in first second and third itll spin the front wheels at 5k revs. to much power
  60. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2008 nurburgring Posts: 420 Saxo Vtr '51' (2001)
    #60
    i got it right ftlb

    kieran.
  61. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jul 2006 Skopje Posts: 215 Citroen Saxo 1.6-16V VTS
    #61
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123 View Post
    21bhp with a "chip" did you get the chip from ebay? if not you should of, i got 25bhp and it only cost me £3. you should have a look mate . PMSL

    P.S wtf is Nm??
    Perhaps, but I saw on the dyno, and you buy 100 chips from ebay and sell them for £50, you will be rich

    P.S you don't know what is Nm?