News : AT Power DTH Throttle Bodies

13th January 2009, 11:34

Guys,

Some of you may be familiar with the group buy that was organised before Christmas for some AT Power DTH Throttle Bodies. I have recently joined the company as a design engineer and throttle body support / development guy. I have read through the posts by people on the group buy section and I thought I would start a new thread to try to answer a few questions and take any comments you may have.

Let me start by saying that I apologise for AT Powers slow response to you guys. This is precisely why I have been brought on board. My background is in engine building / dyno tuning and motorsport. The background of the company is decades of experience at Lotus, and all forms of engineering. I hope that people will rest assured that any product we produce will be of the highest standards and made to the needs of you guys. As an example our Renault DTH kits come with adaptors to mount the standard fuel injectors and fuel rail, and a mount kit for the alternator if you have an air conditioning model - All included in the price. Our kits will fit standard throttle cables, and we try our best to take the difficult little bits and pieces out of getting your car running on throttle bodies.

Performance wise as you have noticed we have a unique shaftless design which allows 7% more air than an equivalent throttle body system. The slim design helps where space is tight and custom tuneable trumpets allow for optimisation - or as a option to removing the bulkhead or not.

We have around 2-300 throttle bodies out there, including the 2008 overall winner of Time Attack, Roger Clark Motorsport's Impreza (Which uses a large single throttle). We have had systems tested to 1million cycles for durability.

A fellow designer here is about to start (in 10 minutes) designing a DTH set for the 1.6 16v engine. Hopefully I should be able to get some 3D screen grabs for you asap.

My boss has told me that we are going to make these throttle bodies - they will be right - and they will give the performance you want. If you are local to us in Norwich and wouldn't mind us sniffing around your engine bay, please please get in touch.

Hopefully people are still interested, so let me know what you need and I'll try my best to be as quick as possible for you!

Obviously I don't want to overstep the rules of the forum, so if a moderator could get in touch via a PM so I can make sure they are happy with everything that would be great.

Regards,

John Goddard
AT Power
www.atpower.co.uk

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IodHZr72QoI

13th January 2009, 11:47

sound good. think i would still be up for these!

13th January 2009, 13:06

are they same ones that work utter crap on the F4R engine, or has the design been changed slightly after the fact they didnt run will on that set up.

Have you actually tested the TU engine with some this time or is it just more 'computer calculations' *edit seen no testing as of yet on a TU5J4*

Serious question here after a friend was massively let down with the AT power set up he had which is why the car then went onto jenveys and ran massively improved

13th January 2009, 13:14

im witholding my judgement on these till ive seen a set on a car and running well
but from what ive read from some peoples experiences (think ryan is on about 1 of those lads) i dont hold high hopes

13th January 2009, 13:15

we (university of Surrey) might be interested in your Formula Student throttle body in the near future. So thank you for bringing it to our attention.

13th January 2009, 14:15

Having spoken to AT Power via PM, I'll hopefully be in receipt of one of the first kits and give it a good shake down on my car with the Predator putting the bodies through their paces.

I'll do before and after power runs, and will give my results back to the forum

Kind regards
Andy

13th January 2009, 14:28

I think 99% of users on this forum (and others...) who often think about upgrading to iTBs, think stuff like: It's very expensive, what if things don't go to plan? Can I trust the company doing the work? Will my engine make the power the company claim? etc, etc. Now, the absolute BEST thing a company can do, is prove their work, document it with as much detail, explanations, pictures, graphs etc, etc, as possible. I think most folk on here just don't want to be taken for a ride and need reassurance.

13th January 2009, 15:02

Toad AT power at least are a company who are around and not a hillbilly company set up who want to do a runner after making a quick buck.

That im assured of, However as my post shows I question that its is the best for all, apparently they work very well on the duratec lumps iirc, but then ran absolute dog meat on the F4R. A computer graph or plotted airflow is all being good in theory, but in reality does it actually give the added performance claimed.

still people pays their moneys they make their choices

13th January 2009, 15:20

Indeed matey. Just giving AT Power a customers perspective... I for one, wouldn't purchase such a set up unless I KNEW it was going to be good. See where I'm coming from?

Also, Jenvey have been in the game a long time, and KMS do a replica of the PugSport bodies, so AT Power have a got a lot of work on their hands if they are going to win the market so to speak.

13th January 2009, 15:24

jenveys, pugsport and KMS systems all use the traditional butterfly so in reality are quite similar. Well the jenveys are different to the DTH stuff because of the inlet manifold.

The AT is a totally new design, but to me the proof is in the pudding not because the computer simulation gives X% more airflow

13th January 2009, 15:36

Agreed. It would nice to see some pudding.

13th January 2009, 15:52

I can assure you all that I'll be completely unbiased. I'll fit them, and report how easy that was, I'll run up a decent map and then get it tweaked on the Janspeed dyno in Salisbury, then I'll run over to Millway in Andover and grab a dyno pull of their dyno, just for comparison.

I'll fill a tank of fuel and do some varied driving see how efficient they are, and also anyone who fancies a ganders can pop down and come out for a spin.

Either I'll give them a thumbs up, or a "not for me gov".

Kind regards
Andy

13th January 2009, 15:58

Sounds like a plan to me.

13th January 2009, 16:06

andy are you planning on doing so on standard cam profiles, fancy using my old jenveys *cough* as a direct comparrison, seeing as ive got to drive them down to your way lol

13th January 2009, 17:00

would be good to see a comparison between the 2 systems
I'm in the same boat as toad but having seen a few cars not pull greatly on these I'm waiting for definate proof

13th January 2009, 19:39

Ryan - you've got Jenvey's?

Are they SPARE or something?? What's the story with them? PM me or something

A

13th January 2009, 19:42

you know me I allways have the odd spaff worthy spare sitting about lol!

you have Pager

13th January 2009, 19:53

I'm another one sitting on the wall awaiting results on the AT tb's, Ryans experience is'nt instilling any confidence thou suppose it's all to do with 'proofs in the pudding'.

Andy know's I in the market this year to get a set of throttlebodies so I am watching his experiment/trial closely.

ManC

14th January 2009, 08:07

John,

what's your ETA on these bodies? Forum members are very fickle, and will soon forget what's going on - so the sooner the better!

Andy

14th January 2009, 10:35

Ryan,

I'm sorry to hear about your friends experience. Unfortunately at that time I the company probably didn't have someone to sort out the issues due to the larger desgin consultancy part of the business. This is exactly why I was brought on board to make sure that people don't have that experience again. I am keen to talk to your friend and find out what went wrong in his particular case. If there is something I desperately need to change in the design I will. Please ask if he would like to talk to me.

As people have said, the majority of our results are good - We need the support of reputable engine tuners who are willing to try sets and give impartial feedback on their performance. Luckily there are those people around.

Someone is working on a design as we speak and may have a first draft by this afternoon. It is top of the list for priorities and a full design ready for manufacture is expect in less than a week. If there is someone local who is kind enough to let us look at their car please get in touch.

Thanks,

John.

14th January 2009, 11:17

Are they like the luminition rollerbarrel TBs. We tried a set of those on an Mi16 engine and it really didn't get the gains we expected. In fact ended up going for Jenvey ones.

Great on a race car perhaps where you are on WOT and the extra airflow may make a difference. But the design looks to give more turbulance at part throttle.

Will look at the design with interest

14th January 2009, 14:35

glad to hear that you are there now to take on board feedback and if needebe modify the design in reality to change the design if needed, as far as im aware the fact it was not making power on the F4R was reported to the company and the company doing the work for him just got told that the computer simulations stated they work brilliantly.

Id recommend trying to get the F4R set on a car and working effectively to get on cliosport as the AT power bodies have a shit rep there, and lots of people are going TBs atm with those cars.

Are you just needing the engine to see sace and ports etc... or are you planning on getting them on and try a map to see how effective they are?

15th January 2009, 11:59

Ryan,

I think it was probably a case of our guy not quite understanding why it didn't work as all the physical flow test we have done at Mountune etc, show that they should work. I am going to be working with an F7 engine and now an F4 engine (all things being well) to try and sort this out and put to bed the bad reputation on cliosport. Hopefully I can sort things out, in time that not everyone has jen****

I currently have a cylinder head, inlet manifold and a throttle body. I have talked over the phone to someone very familiar with the engine bay. Someone has also offered kindly for a set to be put on their car to test, but for the moment if someone local fancies popping over with their VTS for us to take some photographs and one or two measurements that would be great.

KamRacing,

No these are still butterfly throttle bodies, so won't have the negative points of roller barrells

I'll keep you posted ASAP,

John.

23rd January 2009, 13:19

Hello,

Here with a quick update and some pictures. Design is progressing along nicely. Please excuse the lack of fuel rail in these pictures.

It appears the standard port is equivalent to 35mm diameter. Our throttles are going to be the equivalent of 38mm diameter (but they are oval to match the port shape). A 38mm set of our throttles made 249bhp on a duratec engine (tested independantly) by a respected engine builder). Induction length is going to be the same as the KMS near enough. But anyone could specify a shorter length if they desired. There will more than likely be the choice of tapered or straight runners for those who prefer either.

If there is someone local with a VTS who wouldn't mind popping in to let us have a measure of the throttle linkage it would be most appreciated. To all those further afield who were interested in testing sets, I will be in touch.

Any other questions please ask,

Hope you like the pictures!

John.

I can't upload pictures for some reason, but they are on the 106 thread,

http://www.106owners.co.uk/forums/sh...609#post950609

If anyone can upload them onto here for me I would appreciate it!

23rd January 2009, 14:42

You have to be a member of that forum to view the pics... Bugger.

23rd January 2009, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

You have to be a member of that forum to view the pics... Bugger.

I found this too

lol

23rd January 2009, 15:23

I expect discount John!

30th January 2009, 15:03

John,

get these made quickly if you can, there is another thread with Jenvey's and Omex sorting out a PnP set, so let's beat them to it shall we?

Looking forward to getting my hands on these immensely!

Kind regards
Andy

30th January 2009, 15:43

Im only 40mins away, have a mk2 single plug vts if you want some piccys

9th February 2009, 14:05

Just doing the last design touches now to make sure everything will fit and clear ok.

The only issue I have is that the standard pico injectors won't fit because they clash with the camshaft overhang. We can supply the Bosch EV6 long injectors with the throttles. At the moment the standard Marelli TPS will fit on, and the standard fuel rail will be used. As people tend to uprate their injectors anyway we thought this wouldn't be too much of a problem. It also means you will get the best inlet induction angle and length possible without compromise. The injectors will be 310cc, and you can find these second hand if you need to.

We have a few tuners interested in these sets, and we are making sure they are all happy with the designs before we get anything made. It is taking a little longer than planned to satisfy everyones requirements, or come to a compromise on things. I'm sorry for that.

I've really been working hard to get a good price on these for you. I think that we should be able to do the throttles with trumpets, linkage, bracket for standard fuel rail and throttle cable for £599+VAT. This is for a group buy so 10 (whether you have a 106 or a saxo etc)

We can also supply the Bosch injectors for £220+VAT for a matched set of 4. There is a set on ebay with buy it now for £100. These are readily available cheap injectors.

I'm sure you understand we don't want to rush these out, and make sure everyone is happy with them. When everyone is happy we can start making them for people.

Thanks,

John.

9th February 2009, 14:10

Thanks for the update John... look forward to hearing more progress on these

18th February 2009, 11:25

Latest updates,

Design now incorporates the standard Pico fuel injectors!! You ask, you shall receive.

Things left to do are the brackets for the std fuel rail (which needs to be turned around as per jenvey and kms.. you can't overcome that as there are always going to be trumpets in the way, unless the injectors point straight down). Check the standard TPS will clear everything in that area, and make a bracket to hold the standard cable. The set will also have an adaptor in one port to connect up the brake servo using the standard fitting

We are also going to be doing some testing with a very respected saxo tuner - who we have agreed a deal with to become our sole distributor, so I can only sell to him directly, but anyone else can buy from him (other tuners included). I'm confident he will look after you lot who have helped in the design.

I have also attached a dyno pull for our 42mm duratec set (the same design near enough as our renault F4R sets) compared to a 45mm "conventional" set up.

Oh, I forgot I can't attach pictures here. They are on the 106 site. Sorry :-(

Thanks,

John.

18th February 2009, 12:00

who is the 'respected tuner' out of interest?

18th February 2009, 13:35

At the moment things are still under discussion so I can't say. Everybody will be able to get hold of throttles through them. Also I'm sure that everyone has an opinion on the different tuners, just as people will have an opinion on AT Power throttle bodies. I wouldn't want there to be an argument started about who is a good tuner or not

I'll post updates, photos, power graphs etc still

18th February 2009, 13:39

Delete post.

22nd February 2009, 18:08

yh same as above would buy when results are proven on vehcles

10th March 2009, 20:19

These are on order at the machine shop now - everything is designed. Will have a prototype soon!

We are trying to decide which way to go with a project car. Our ECU people are interested in doing a plug n play option that would run the standard dash board on 206 or C2s etc. We may end up with one of those - but yes we have had a volunteer or two. I'm sure we'll get something sorted out asap.

Just to confirm again,

Will use standard VTS injectors

Will use standard VTS fuel rail (flipped over, brackets are done)

Will use standard VTS vacuum for brake servo

Will use standard VTS TPS sensor

Will use standard VTS throttle cable

You will be able to fit some extensions and trumpets within the envelope of the standard inlet if you wanted to - which means there should be lots of room to either, not cut the scuttle panel, or run a proper airbox, or airfilter. Or run longer trumpets to gain some extra power - it will be your choice when you come round to choosing a set.

Can't ask for fairer than that?

Thanks,

John

P.S. about the renault engines, someone has been in touch saying that they have a set on their 172, with standard bottom end, 421 cat cams, and lightly ported head with 220bhp using short extensions. So I don't think there is a problem with the renault sets as was previously thought.

10th March 2009, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AT_Power

We are trying to decide which way to go with a project car. Our ECU people are interested in doing a plug n play option that would run the standard dash board on 206 or C2s etc.

Alot of ECUs/Standalone run the standard dash without any issues.

10th March 2009, 20:26

John - you mention 206/C2?

This is a Saxo forum... just wondering if you could expand on that paragraph for us a little bit.

Kind regards
Andy

EDIT: PS - As of tomorrow, Datashift should have the Predator PnP ECU completed and ready for prototype for the 3-plug Saxo VTS/3-plug 106GTi Engine. This would mean Datashift do a PnP ECU for all the model cars that this Throttle Body will fit! Furthermore, my 3-plug ECU operates the dash perfectly, including the dreaded temp sensor gauge, and the tacho. Also we control the radiator cooling fans without issue.

10th March 2009, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Alot of ECUs/Standalone run the standard dash without any issues.

Yes it is not hard to do, but as far as I know the standard VTS ecu doesn't do this, which means if we are developing the ECU as well, we would need to use a car that has one of the ECU driven dash boards - unless the very late VTS dashboards were ECU driven?

John.

10th March 2009, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by AT_Power

Yes it is not hard to do, but as far as I know the standard VTS ecu doesn't do this, which means if we are developing the ECU as well, we would need to use a car that has one of the ECU driven dash boards - unless the very late VTS dashboards were ECU driven?

John.

Why would you want to make it run the c2/206 dash though when the saxo dash is in use of the car. It will mean people will be looking at buying a seperate instrument binacle.

10th March 2009, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

John - you mention 206/C2?

This is a Saxo forum... just wondering if you could expand on that paragraph for us a little bit.

Kind regards
Andy

Yeah I probable should have explained better. The tuner is interested in developing the ECU as well (for plug in n play kits) but we would need to be able to drive the dash boards on the later 206's and C2 cars - so for a project vehicle it might end up being one of those, rather than a Saxo. But as the engines are near identical, we know the kit will revert back to a Saxo and be 99% of the way there as the harder part is done.

Hope that makes sense,

John.

10th March 2009, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AT_Power

Yeah I probable should have explained better. The tuner is interested in developing the ECU as well (for plug in n play kits) but we would need to be able to drive the dash boards on the later 206's and C2 cars - so for a project vehicle it might end up being one of those, rather than a Saxo. But as the engines are near identical, we know the kit will revert back to a Saxo and be 99% of the way there as the harder part is done.

Hope that makes sense,

John.

Now that makes sense now explained.

10th March 2009, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

EDIT: PS - As of tomorrow, Datashift should have the Predator PnP ECU completed and ready for prototype for the 3-plug Saxo VTS/3-plug 106GTi Engine. This would mean Datashift do a PnP ECU for all the model cars that this Throttle Body will fit! Furthermore, my 3-plug ECU operates the dash perfectly, including the dreaded temp sensor gauge, and the tacho. Also we control the radiator cooling fans without issue.

Sounds like you have a very good ECU there! Would be a very good match for the throttles indeed. Maybe we don't need to develop an ECU if there is already one out there doing a good job. Can you email me directly so we can talk more about that?

Thanks,

John.

10th March 2009, 20:37

The early ECU (1-plug) controls the Tacho, the late (3-plug ECU) controls the Tacho *and* the coolant temp sensor. Tacho is easy, coolant temp sensor is not easy. Well, it's easy when you know how! But I guess everything is, isn't it!

Andy

10th March 2009, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by AT_Power

Sounds like you have a very good ECU there! Would be a very good match for the throttles indeed. Maybe we don't need to develop an ECU if there is already one out there doing a good job. Can you email me directly so we can talk more about that?

Thanks,

John.

John,

I PM'd you loads last month, and you didn't seem hugely interested inthe ECU other than to say I could pick up the Bodies from your sole distributor and sell them myself!

If that's changed, drop me a PM. I'm hugely interested, and as said ^ ^ above, tomorrow I'll have PnP ECU's for ALL engines your Throttle Bodies support in the Saxo/106 family!

Kind regards

Andy

10th March 2009, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

John,

I PM'd you loads last month, and you didn't seem hugely interested inthe ECU other than to say I could pick up the Bodies from your sole distributor and sell them myself!

If that's changed, drop me a PM. I'm hugely interested, and as said ^ ^ above, tomorrow I'll have PnP ECU's for ALL engines your Throttle Bodies support in the Saxo/106 family!

Kind regards

Andy

Andy,

Sorry if it seemed like that. I'm acting like a mad man at the moment, got throttle bodies coming out of my ears and I've learnt more about the different types of engine varieties used by Ford, Renault, Honda, Citroen etc etc that I think my head will explode. I can't believe they change things around so much. I was also busy with our Honda K20 Vtec throttles, making sure it was doing the business etc, etc,

http://www.youtube.com/atpowerthrottles

You know what it's like. If you send me your phone number I will try to get in touch tomorrow or thurusday to have a chat.

John.

11th March 2009, 08:10

John,

Call me on 07917 10 50 20 regarding the ECU's.

For info: I can develop a Plug and Play ECU solution for *any* car given sufficient demand, usually something like 5-off initially will justify the leg work, so for example we could do the Clio 172 ECU or any of the Ford units (they are *particularly* easy).

Kind regards
Andy

12th May 2009, 09:23

Hi Guys,

Sorry about the delay in news. Things took a bit longer than I had planned. The bodies are on the machine at the moment and will be complete in another week. I will give some more news and updates when they are assembled and when they're on a car with power graphs.

For those wondering GMC Motorsport will be the people to get in touch with about the throttle bodies. They have been kicking my arse to get things done. We have also made a 55mm single throttle adaption for the C2 inlet manifolds, and the others to come. Using shaftless blades in the singles too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyFYqtpllTM

http://www.youtube.com/atpowerthrottles

Many thanks,

John.

12th May 2009, 12:46

Great Video John,

Love seeing thing like that.

p.s. I'm the reason GMC is cracking the whipp.. I've been waiting weeks for these

12th May 2009, 12:48

Hi,

That's cool. I'm glad you liked seeing the video. We're all really pleased with how these are looking, should be really good when done!

Thanks,

John.

12th May 2009, 13:08

Saxxxooo Steven

Boddies on your s/c then, very nice!!

12th May 2009, 14:24

I want that mini

12th May 2009, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsaxo

Saxxxooo Steven

Boddies on your s/c then, very nice!!

we knew this weeks back on shed

12th May 2009, 19:24

Will be following this very closely.
Interested to see what GMC make of them as opposed to the normal jenvey setups they use.

Any reason why you have decided to go for 38mm bodies as opposed to 40mm/42mm which is the norm? That is unless ive got my wires crossed lol

12th May 2009, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by daz_westcoast

Any reason why you have decided to go for 38mm bodies...

It's a good question. Basically our throttle bodies are designed to be close to the head to give you maximum response. The size of the ports on the head are only 35mm, so going out to 40 or 42mm would be too much of a step change that close to the head. The reason we can get away with running smaller bores is because we have a shaftless design, with just 2mm thick profiled throttle blade, which when flow tested is 99.5% as good as having nothing at all, compared to a normal type which is around 90% as good. The saxo system is tapered and actually ends up at a 42mm diameter ram pipe / trumpet. A rule of thumb is that you want to have the smallest diameter hole you can get away with, having over sized ones is detrimental to performance.

Previously we have had 38mm on a 1.6 duratec engine make around 220bhp with 38mm trumpets. The same system on a 2.0 duratec made 250bhp. The 42mm duratec set we do that tapers to 50mm trumpets was tested on a 2.4 duratec and made over 300bhp. Previously on conventional 45mm throttle bodies that engine spec made just 288bhp.

So I think that 38mm with a taper to 42mm would give great results for just about any set up you could run with a saxo. I'll report back what GMC get with the throttles

Thanks,

John.

12th May 2009, 20:42

AH bugger. Just when I thought I was all set on the Jenvey DCOE's. I wonder if these really are the ones Matt from QEP was on on about...

12th May 2009, 20:46

We bought an AT Power Formula Student Throttle body... quality of the components and finish is extraordinary to be honest.

no relevance to thread other than if the 1.6 16v TB's are of the same standard then it's exciting times.

I know that pricing these things are going to be a pickle John, as there is always going to be fluctuations by the time they hit a full production run... but are these still on for £599+VAT?

cheers!

ads

12th May 2009, 20:47

how much is a set? and how easy to set up?

12th May 2009, 20:51

I couldn't possibly lay out any money on these until I see some positive results...

12th May 2009, 20:54

cant wait to see the results for this!!!

12th May 2009, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

We bought an AT Power Formula Student Throttle body... quality of the components and finish is extraordinary to be honest.

no relevance to thread other than if the 1.6 16v TB's are of the same standard then it's exciting times.

Thanks for the kind comments about the FS throttle. And yes all our throttles are made in the same way with the same quality and thought going into them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

I know that pricing these things are going to be a pickle John, as there is always going to be fluctuations by the time they hit a full production run... but are these still on for £599+VAT?

I'm sure that GMC will be working very hard on a good price. I would expect there to be kits with an ECU and some cams which is more useful for lots of people. That price would have been a one off to get things off the ground to begin with. It's better for you guys to go through a tuner anyway as they know the car, can make sure you've got the bits, correct air filters and a map for the ECU, offer support, etc etc.

They should be simple enough to install, bolt straight to the head, use std injectors, fuel rail, TPS sensor, brake servo attachment and throttle cable.

Of course the proof is all in the pudding and eating so when they're on a car making good numbers I'll be a happy bunny

Thanks,

John.

12th May 2009, 22:22

I've just read this whole thread... Anyone got a 16v engine up for grabs!!! lol
Good to see a company activley taking an interest in its customer base, Well done.

12th May 2009, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by AT_Power

Thanks for the kind comments about the FS throttle. And yes all our throttles are made in the same way with the same quality and thought going into them.

I'm sure that GMC will be working very hard on a good price. I would expect there to be kits with an ECU and some cams which is more useful for lots of people. That price would have been a one off to get things off the ground to begin with. It's better for you guys to go through a tuner anyway as they know the car, can make sure you've got the bits, correct air filters and a map for the ECU, offer support, etc etc.

They should be simple enough to install, bolt straight to the head, use std injectors, fuel rail, TPS sensor, brake servo attachment and throttle cable.

Of course the proof is all in the pudding and eating so when they're on a car making good numbers I'll be a happy bunny

Thanks,

John.

ECU? Predator?... umm got cams already

so it'd be reasonable to assume that just the bodies will retail through GMC at 599+VAT with a '1' infront...

14th May 2009, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

ECU? Predator?... umm got cams already

so it'd be reasonable to assume that just the bodies will retail through GMC at 599+VAT with a '1' infront...

14th May 2009, 17:01

these sound good lookin 4ward 2 seein the results

19th May 2009, 17:10

Hi Guys,

More updates,

First Off housing from CNC machine,

Rough fitting to head. Note std fuel rail on pico injectors, std gti/vts cable and std TPS sensor,

Port matching on head. Bear in mind this body hasn't been debured yet, those couple of edges inside arn't there anymore. It also looks like the head could do with a bit of touching up to get them perfect as the std casting isn't 100% across the 4. And with any ITBs you'll want to take a little time to make sure they are lined up properly when you bolt them tight.

Tapered extensions and ram pipes. Not yet formed to fit into the bodies.

Next step is to touch up the machining in one or two places, get a set anodised and built up ready to test. Maybe end of this week.

Thanks,

John.

19th May 2009, 18:13

Good progress. Pics look good

Keep up the good work

19th May 2009, 19:45

thanks for the update John

looking sweet

19th May 2009, 20:16

these look very very good. i am very interested. when do you hope to have them in production by?

19th May 2009, 21:28

yes i could also be very intersted in these once completed,

i will keep my eye out on these

andy

19th May 2009, 22:58

steve must be getting more excited every day LOL!

20th May 2009, 08:48

these are looking good. will they fit without having to cut the scuttle?

20th May 2009, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by webby

these are looking good. will they fit without having to cut the scuttle?

will be like with any bodies, dependant on the trumpet length you choose.

20th May 2009, 18:45

Great work guys! hopefully the anodising comes out ok. Will match my car nicely.

John, Do you have the O.D dimensions of the Ram pipes. I'm buggering about with my plenum design at the moment you see..

prototype mk1

20th May 2009, 19:30

sweeeeeet! if i hadnt already started colecting parts for my vtr boost conversion id drop an s lump in and wait for these!!

20th May 2009, 22:19

The Predator will simply plug in and work with these bodies by the way...

Total 100% compatibility.

Andy

21st May 2009, 20:12

price ?

21st May 2009, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

The Predator will simply plug in and work with these bodies by the way...

Total 100% compatibility.

Andy

that good to hear as i very interested in these,

i want to see the out come also see what sort of figures they seem to get

thanks

andy

22nd May 2009, 14:11

Any after market standalone ecu will work with these bodies.

22nd May 2009, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by evensteven

Any after market standalone ecu will work with these bodies.

Mine needs no "fitment" it just plugs in to the standard bolt mounts, and the connector is plug-and-play

Andy

22nd May 2009, 19:20

is the single plug vtr pred up and running yet? really interested in this now, going to scrap the mf malarky

22nd May 2009, 19:53

I'm pretty excited about these ... Keep the updates rolling in.

23rd May 2009, 21:25

Anyone at PPC in the Park today may have seen these lurking about...

Shown with one of our stainless fuel rails. Will be an option for anyone wanting to run braided fuel lines etc.

Steve. I talked to John about anodising colour, he didn't think that silver was a problem. I'm not 100% happy with the blue we have had done recently, and if you really want red or blue we can do a set that colour for you, but we need to get a batch of stuff red and we didn't have enough stuff to get done last week. Email me and I'll send you some dimensions for you to fit your box. I assume that the 70mm long extensions and 40mm long ram pipes would be the best for you as it'll give you the most room to make a box onto them. Thats the set up in the pictures in this post, and should fit within the space that the standard manifold does.

John.

23rd May 2009, 21:28

P.S. Luthor's ECU sounds a good un for running with these bodies. Easy plug n play throttle body solution

23rd May 2009, 22:24

they look the biz, but do they perform?

from what people have said, they arent as good as jenvey and the like.

when they are in production whats the damage on these?

plug and play setup i take it + ecu

23rd May 2009, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by PETE-VTR

they look the biz, but do they perform?

from what people have said, they arent as good as jenvey and the like.

I would love to know who these people are that are saying this...

We'll see what the dyno kicks out when they're on. Only way. I'm pretty confident.

John.

24th May 2009, 00:27

Hi John,

I said to John @ GMC to go with the Red, he did say that you guys were not happy with how a few of the blue anodisings were coming out.

P.s. I was going to contact you about getting a fuel rail made up, as I've got Aeroquip everywhere else. So can you please include one when you post them up to John.

Any idea when they will be back from anodising? I'm keen to get them on and working

All good things are made in Norfolk afterall

24th May 2009, 11:11

I'll get another set done in red if you want then. It'll take another three days to get them anodised and then built up, or you can have the ones that have been anodised silver sent up on tuesday?

The sad part is you'll be able to see very little once they're under the bonnet.

Send me an email. I need to give you some pointers on making your airbox

John.

24th May 2009, 13:48

Im really tempted by these!

Going to wait and see them on a engine and results first, but if all goes my car definatly needs some of these!

24th May 2009, 17:30

Certainly looks well manufactured, look forward to the results.

Are you expecting any draw backs having the butterfly closer to the valves compared to the likes of jenvey, KMS etc?

25th May 2009, 23:16

At WOT butterfly position is irrelevant really. over inlet length is the important part.

At low engine speeds having the Butterfly nearer the head will make it a more reactive/resposive engine I expect.

John. Whats your email address? Its a plenum I'm making... as I'm running Boost through them

26th May 2009, 13:41

They look gorguess . Looking forward to some more updates and some figures .

26th May 2009, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by evensteven

At WOT butterfly position is irrelevant really. over inlet length is the important part.

At low engine speeds having the Butterfly nearer the head will make it a more reactive/resposive engine I expect.

John. Whats your email address? Its a plenum I'm making... as I'm running Boost through them

Only thing i would be concerned about is the limited tract after the butterfly, in relation to the air and fuel mixing before it enters the cylinder.

I guess time and testing will tell.

Will the first test engine for these bodies be n/a?

26th May 2009, 23:40

No, it will be on my SC car.

The injector positioning is pretty much the same.. so why would the butterfly position effect have any effect on the way the air fuel mixes. Only at low throttle openings i guess turbulance would be increased neared the injector.. but this would be a good thing to mix the fuel up if it was the case.

27th May 2009, 09:39

The injector position is perfect unless you're looking to run around 9000rpm, then you could benefit a few bhp from having them further back. The inlet tract is smaller diameter where the injector is on our system, so the gas speed is higher which will help fuel mixture at low speeds.

Steve I tried to send you an email reply, but it just got rejected so I'll PM it all instead.

Thanks,

John.

27th May 2009, 18:43

John, I received your email direct.. and have sent a reply

I will be running between 8500 and 9krpm John. We may go back to an 8 injector setup (I had this before with a Single TB.) But for now I think I will just keep things simple. My ecu will run 8 fully sequential no problem.. so thats one thing not to worry about.

13th June 2009, 21:42

AT Power will be at FCS tomorrow with a set of these throttle bodies for anyone wanting to have a look. Come and say hi!

13th June 2009, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by AT_Power

AT Power will be at FCS tomorrow with a set of these throttle bodies for anyone wanting to have a look. Come and say hi!

where abouts will your car be?

whats your nu8mber would be good to talk to you. PM me if you wish

cheers

13th June 2009, 22:07

Shall be looking out for these. Idd keep them in sight, or they might dissapear lol.

13th June 2009, 22:37

We will be next to the RS Tuning stand who will have some of our stuff on their cars. We don't have a show car yet.

I'm sure you will find us. Oh and yeah they will be firmly screwed down!

14th June 2009, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by AT_Power

AT Power will be at FCS tomorrow with a set of these throttle bodies for anyone wanting to have a look. Come and say hi!

I have to say after several trips over to your stand to dribble over these first impressions are massively positive

Im not very clued up when it comes to all the technicalities so seeing some results on a similar spec'ed car will be the eventual seller.

But they look absolutely perfect, quality of materials and finish looked so much better than the Jenveys that were on the car next to the stand for starters

I also loved the fact that standard TPS can be used for ease of fitting and also a standard fuel rail which would save cost for people. Im running larger injectors on my car currently combined with the standard rail so im sure it would/could be made to fit with no problems.

Price wise i was very very in favour of.

All of these comments i heard from alot of other people so cant fault them so far.

Will be watching eagerly for some results feedback

14th June 2009, 21:36

Thank you very much. As you said proof in the pudding so I'm looking forward to them being on a car!

14th June 2009, 22:04

John, can you pass on my thanks for whoever Willsy and I were talking to at the show, very helpful and spent a good 10 mins explaining things and answering questions.

Cheers!

ads

14th June 2009, 22:13

Certainly looked well manufactured, attention to detail is second to none.

When will they be tested on a n/a setup?

15th June 2009, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

John, can you pass on my thanks for whoever Willsy and I were talking to at the show, very helpful and spent a good 10 mins explaining things and answering questions.

Cheers!

ads

Thats no problem ads. It was either me, or Paul (who has glasses). At least if you ask it gives us a chance to tell you how great they are

so we don't mind.

Thanks,

John.

15th June 2009, 19:15

These bodies looked sweet. Didnt get a chance to speak to you though :-(. Have you got any ideas of when tests will be carried out with regards to Power Gains? and any unforssen issues? Can use my car if i get a free set

Haha. Sorry im a cheap bugger.

15th June 2009, 20:03

they did look very nice and the price we spoke about was bob-on too.

16th June 2009, 06:58

yes i was very impressed with the way they looked, i will defo be looking into these what i get my throttle bodies

want to have a talk but you was always busy when i was there.

yer hopfully there be some testing soon too.

andy

2nd July 2009, 12:12

Anyone using these yet? any got any power curves?

2nd July 2009, 13:06

No not being used yet.

Only set I know of are going on a boosted engine

14th July 2009, 09:34

Found a man using these throttle bodies. Claiming 197 bhp at the flywheel!!!

http://www.frenchcarsireland.com/for...ead.php?t=2245

14th July 2009, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy555

Found a man using these throttle bodies. Claiming 197 bhp at the flywheel!!!

http://www.frenchcarsireland.com/for...ead.php?t=2245

You'll have to register to view. Good documented history of the cars history as it goes from standard to hi-spec. Plenty of photos

14th July 2009, 18:52

would these work with the jp4 head ok ??

14th July 2009, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy555

Found a man using these throttle bodies. Claiming 197 bhp at the flywheel!!!

http://www.frenchcarsireland.com/for...ead.php?t=2245

Any chance of copying the txt/photos so we can see/read?

14th July 2009, 21:20

there jenvys in that link !?!?