camed vts with no mapping

15th January 2009, 07:45

can you run a cammed vts withouth mapping it?

15th January 2009, 07:48

yeah, but you wont be getting the full potential out of the cam or the engine and it will run lumpy as fuck, more so depending on how high the lift is. Could be bad enough that you have to manually hold rev at junctions to avoid stalling

15th January 2009, 07:49

to be honest mate it depends what cams your looking at, you will be looking at very little gain from just a cam and no re-map but in answer to the question you can run mild cams without a remap but something a little more wild like a ph3 you would need a remap for

15th January 2009, 08:01

Mine stalls at the lights, hmmmm...

How do I find out if it has got performance cams in the car? Is there a quick easy way or do I have to take the head off?

15th January 2009, 08:04

Not really mate, other than getting a rolling road. If its been tinkered with electronically atall its probably had the rev limiter set higher so thats something to test

15th January 2009, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshB

Mine stalls at the lights, hmmmm...

How do I find out if it has got performance cams in the car? Is there a quick easy way or do I have to take the head off?

You don't need to take the head off, just one of the cam covers will do. Most camshafts have things printed on them. For example, catcam 708s have some writing on the right end of the shafts, if you're looking at the engine from the front.

15th January 2009, 08:55

does mapping just make it run smoother, or does it give you more of a power gain? if so how much more.

15th January 2009, 09:08

Christ, how long is a piece of string...?

No, it WILL give you more power, as well as a better idle, but a lot of this relies on the cam timing as well.

15th January 2009, 09:31

you say how long ais a piece of string as if there is no answer, i just asked does it give any more power, so there is an answer because you gave it.

15th January 2009, 09:33

yer but how much is so dificult to answer dependant on loads of other stuff"!

15th January 2009, 09:34

depends what camshafts you get.

Some people have got away with ph3's and no remap and ran fine, others havn't. It depends who does the valve timing.

But it will run and deliver power differently when remapped, aswel as that if you go to wayne schofield he adjusts the valve timing aswel.
I would expect other places do it aswel tbh.

Milder camshafts you can get away without a remap and seem to run fine all the way through the rev range.

15th January 2009, 10:05

Cam timing...

15th January 2009, 10:16

how pricey is getting your car remaped, or is there no way of buying someone elses ecu and plug that one in?

15th January 2009, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

how pricey is getting your car remaped, or is there no way of buying someone elses ecu and plug that one in?

Can cost as much as £450+ ...

Yes, you could do that, but a) The map won't be perfect for your engine and b) I think there's some stuff you'll need to do to actually get a different ECU working in your car.

15th January 2009, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Cam timing...

its correct name is valve timing isnt it?
Or are they different?

I have always known it as valve timing, then with the remap you also alter the ignition timing and fueling.

Never heard of it known as cam timing?

Unless am wrong?

15th January 2009, 10:37

Valve Timing
In a piston engine, the valve timing is the precise timing of the opening and closing of the valves.

Cam Timing
The physical act of timing the cam into the engine so that the valve events occur at the right angle in relation to crank rotation. ...

15th January 2009, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_VTS

Valve Timing
In a piston engine, the valve timing is the precise timing of the opening and closing of the valves.

Cam Timing
The physical act of timing the cam into the engine so that the valve events occur at the right angle in relation to crank rotation. ...

I'm just being a knob...

The "mapper" will alter the camshaft timing, which then effectively alters the valve timing... I was just being picky.

EDIT: Hmmm. I suppose it would be more correct to say that the camshaft timing (again, which the "mapper" alters) is with regard to crank rotation, whereas valve timing, (the duration / degrees) is actually what the camshaft lobe's set, so you don't actually tweak this, it's set by the camshafts...

15th January 2009, 10:57

haha
dont hug me......

Knob

15th January 2009, 11:10

Ah feck it. It's all about how the terms are interpreted I guess. Cam timing alteration will effect when the valves up and close in relation to the rotaion of the crank. The cam profile determines how much lift the valve get, and how long they stay open for...

15th January 2009, 11:24

exactamundo.

15th January 2009, 12:30

i love these threads
wish id been awake for it now

you say cammed but not a profile
try running something like an 809 unmapped and find out

15th January 2009, 12:51

Cam timing is used when we want to know at what CRANK degree angle we see full lift

Valve timing defines the degrees BTDC that the vale opens, and the degrees ATDC that it closes

Cam timing is now being replaced by "lift at TDC" which puts the piston at TDC on the compression stroke and defines the amount of lift the intake and exhaust cams have. It's much easier to setup cams like this.

Hope that clears it up!

Andy

15th January 2009, 18:58

mine runs fine unmapped and cammed. the garage that fits the cams for you should be able to set them up so they idle ok. mine sounds lumpy when cold but once its warmed up its fine.

15th January 2009, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriswoodward

to be honest mate it depends what cams your looking at, you will be looking at very little gain from just a cam and no re-map but in answer to the question you can run mild cams without a remap but something a little more wild like a ph3 you would need a remap for

And throttle bodies i believe!

15th January 2009, 19:05

mine has ph3s in and runs fine- it doesnt need mapping although to get the best gains from camming your car i would get it live mapped.

15th January 2009, 19:07

Fair man!

15th January 2009, 22:58

theres a video on youtube with a vts on cams unmapped, name something like that too.