tune vtr or jst drop in vts?

16th January 2009, 17:23

in a bit of a dilemma, i have an 03 vtr bought it with 19,000 miles on the clock with full service history, since i have had it it is now on 39,000 i hav given it an oil change least every 10,000 miles. Problem is i duno whether to tune my vtr engine or to drop a vts lump in?

in the end im willing to spend around £1000 and the min bhp im hoping for is around 140

(jst now i hav induction kit and cat back exhaust system)

any ideas/comments would be appreciated.

16th January 2009, 17:28

yep...dilemma time as you know whats been done and how the engines been treated..... but if you can find a good healthy vts lump....go 4 it i think!!!

16th January 2009, 17:28

Defo drop a vts engine in it! It will drop striaght in no messing around aswel.

16th January 2009, 17:31

its a shame this post wasnt sooner as i was watching a vts 03 plate lump with 17k miles on ebay and it was only at £150ish with 1 day to go....!

16th January 2009, 17:33

depends what kind of power you want. A VTR will give soem good power, but it all depends how much you want, hence i dropped a VTS lump in.

16th January 2009, 17:42

if youve got that money to spend m8 id' sooner sell your car and get a vts, save alot of trbl and means that youl get a fair bit for your car as its low miles and not too old, drop an engine from another car in the value will decreease vts lump or not

16th January 2009, 18:17

sure you can get a vts engine with some cams in for under a grand should give more than 140.

16th January 2009, 23:35

i would tune your 8v
its a very capable engine and couple it to a vts box youll struggle to notice the diff between it and a vts
wont be mad power but will deffo be fast

16th January 2009, 23:42

For an 03 plate car with such a low mileage engine, I'd say you're better off dropping a Newman PH3 cam in and get it booked in for a remap. Should easily keep up with valvers then.

Engine conversions can lead to loads of problems unless you're handy with a spanner/ have very deep pockets. At least this way, you're not going to have *too* many problems selling the car on in future.

17th January 2009, 00:03

tune your 8v with that milage... don't waste it

17th January 2009, 00:10

Given that your £1000 is a small budget you wont get anywhere near 140bhp with that using the VTR engine. With the cams, remap and a few breathing bits youll maybe see 120/125bhp if you're lucky and if its done right.

17th January 2009, 00:25

Your car sounds like a peach of a VTR so why ruin it by sticking an older or higher mileage engine? Id either sell it and use the 1000 to get a VTS or just be happy you have a lovley, looked after and well cared for car.

17th January 2009, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by willsy

Given that your £1000 is a small budget you wont get anywhere near 140bhp with that using the VTR engine. With the cams, remap and a few breathing bits youll maybe see 120/125bhp if you're lucky and if its done right.

didnt see him saying he wants 140
standard inlet need to go in the bin for that kinda powr
throttle bodies alone will kill most of your budget

17th January 2009, 01:06

so the only relalistic answer is to get a vts

17th January 2009, 01:11

for 140 on 1k its probably a better option
if he only wanted 120-125ish he would be fine

but over 130 the 8v will need some damn good induction system on there
hence itbs
whisch will need a standalone too
theres 2k at least and i havent got onto cams and exhaust systems yet as wel as internal work such as headwork ect

17th January 2009, 01:14

drop a vts engine thats what every 1 does id stick with the vtr. cam it remap it turbo it. dont follow the norm its good to be different

17th January 2009, 01:20

put a vts engine in!
your half way to 140bhp already

17th January 2009, 01:26

simple answer drop in a vts lump half the hassle and better results or a 106 gti lump either way 16v power..

17th January 2009, 01:30

plus with that ull get a good wedge for th low mileage vtr engine u take out i know plenty ov peeps lookin for a vtr lump for their 1.1 saxos willing to pay £350+

17th January 2009, 02:02

yes but will still be just the same as any other converted vtr but depends on have far you want to go vtr or vts. both will be put a big smile on your face

17th January 2009, 02:27

im with the stick with the 8v crew, like said above its a good looked after vtr getting rare now soo dont throw that all away. Nice cams, rethink some of your breathing mods, think about losing some weight? spare wheel and cage, interior?

get yourself a vts gearbox aswell

then remap

17th January 2009, 07:31

For what your going to spend on a vts conversion i`d sell the vtr & put the money along with your 1k towards buying a vts then doing engine mods on the vts.

Steve.

17th January 2009, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langey

Defo drop a vts engine in it! It will drop striaght in no messing around aswel.

woops, didnt mean to click thanks, i wish my vts conversion went that smoothly, people who say its a pice of piss have obviously never tryed it before.

i theory yes it SHOULD fit, but there are holes and exceptions in the wiring looms between vtrs and vts's of certain years. particularly 2000 ones as i found out to my immense cost.

if its a year to year, same plate (03 for you) you should be fine but once you start deviating expect to run into problems.

for me personally, just buy a VTS

17th January 2009, 19:18

as i and others have said either stick with the 8v and tune that you can still have alot of fun in it, or jus sell your car and get vts with the money and the grand you have, good low mileage cars make good money, cars with a diff engine tend to cut the number of potential buyers in half, plus unless you re-declare the cars as a vts the insurance will be higher than a normal vts(which is quite high anyway)

19th January 2009, 16:19

defo tune the 8v! strip it and with £1000 u can make it nearly as quick as a standerd vts

19th January 2009, 16:48

Vtsvtsvtsvtsvtsvts.....vts

19th January 2009, 17:11

VTR mate, i love my VTR, it is faster than the figures suggest, i love it.

8V POWWEERRR

LOL

22nd January 2009, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

as i and others have said either stick with the 8v and tune that you can still have alot of fun in it, or jus sell your car and get vts with the money and the grand you have, good low mileage cars make good money, cars with a diff engine tend to cut the number of potential buyers in half, plus unless you re-declare the cars as a vts the insurance will be higher than a normal vts(which is quite high anyway)

my insureance was also cheaper as a vtr16v for some odd reason, flux works in mysterious ways!

you are tied down to 5k miles tho, but they never check.

22nd January 2009, 23:19

Just buy a vts. dont drop a lump in. or tune vtr. (8v will blow - never seen 1 on any trackday) no hassle, and reliable. like top gear mentioned wen they built there own cateram how much do ya trust your own work. and a tuned 8v is less powerful than a vts anyway for alot more money. another reason why i never c vtrs on a trackday is because even if they are tuned they only 8v so they got no poke after 5k, i have done a trackday in a vtr. and they are poo

22nd January 2009, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

Just buy a vts. dont drop a lump in. or tune vtr. (8v will blow - never seen 1 on any trackday) no hassle, and reliable. like top gear mentioned wen they built there own cateram how much do ya trust your own work. and a tuned 8v is less powerful than a vts anyway for alot more money. another reason why i never c vtrs on a trackday is because even if they are tuned they only 8v so they got no poke after 5k, i have done a trackday in a vtr. and they are poo

what a load of rubbish mate...

I would stick with your R for a while longer seeing as the mileage is so low and its obviously been looked after, save some money to put towards the 1k then think about a conversion or getting an S

22nd January 2009, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by one_nation04

what a load of rubbish mate...

I would stick with your R for a while longer seeing as the mileage is so low and its obviously been looked after, save some money to put towards the 1k then think about a conversion or getting an S

u would say that because you got a vtr and wasted alot of money?? and like u say - get an S so how is it rubbish. i have owned both, and tracked both so i am more qualified

22nd January 2009, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

u would say that because you got a vtr and wasted alot of money?? and like u say - get an S so how is it rubbish. i have owned both, and tracked both so i am more qualified

but how can u say an R is rubbish on a track, any car on a track can be a good laugh. Yea, obviously an S would be better but for an R with such low mileage i just think it would probably be worth saving a bit while driving that for a while

23rd January 2009, 00:14

I dont see how a VTR is rubbish for track personally,
cracking car really...especially if your younger or just trying to save some cash.
A good driver in a VTR will blitz a bad driver in a VTS around a track,
that extra 20-30 bhp from a VTS wont mean shit in a tight bendy track for example....

....needless to say I own a VTS..and Im a bad driver

23rd January 2009, 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

u would say that because you got a vtr and wasted alot of money?? and like u say - get an S so how is it rubbish. i have owned both, and tracked both so i am more qualified

im sorry but you dont half post some utter bollocks for the sake of it. Did lad also fuck up the 8v you drove

A vts is a better engine, yet I had alot of fun on track in an 8v raping the odd 172, and vts's because of the way i drove. I have alot of power yet on some circuits thats no use to me, if i didnt have decent suspension a well set up low powered car would easily rape me

23rd January 2009, 08:19

i think you should keep your 8V mate, i love mine, you wont get mad power from it, but enough coupled with a good suspension setup and youve got one hell of a car.

23rd January 2009, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

im sorry but you dont half post some utter bollocks for the sake of it. Did lad also fuck up the 8v you drove

A vts is a better engine, yet I had alot of fun on track in an 8v raping the odd 172, and vts's because of the way i drove. I have alot of power yet on some circuits thats no use to me, if i didnt have decent suspension a well set up low powered car would easily rape me

im sorry ryan i forgot about your ability to nail that honda exige round the nurburgring?? notice that every1 posting has a vtr. and is probably just a bit peeved that they do ? i would be

ryan its easy for you to say a vtr is good round a track when you have got a million horsepower under the bonnet, which fair play you do. but do you remember the days of 90 or 100 horsepower they are uter bollocks at high revs. so for track they are poo no question about it. this dude who posted the thread is talkin about spendin 1k tuning it and all im sayin is its better havin a stock vts than a tuned vtr than will probably blow up on u. like urs ryan

oh and as for the 'lad' comment. there work is great quality. probs a little better than ur handy work?

23rd January 2009, 10:48

good old vtr

23rd January 2009, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

Just buy a vts. dont drop a lump in. or tune vtr. (8v will blow - never seen 1 on any trackday) no hassle, and reliable. like top gear mentioned wen they built there own cateram how much do ya trust your own work. and a tuned 8v is less powerful than a vts anyway for alot more money. another reason why i never c vtrs on a trackday is because even if they are tuned they only 8v so they got no poke after 5k, i have done a trackday in a vtr. and they are poo

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

u would say that because you got a vtr and wasted alot of money?? and like u say - get an S so how is it rubbish. i have owned both, and tracked both so i am more qualified

an 8v isa very capable little motor
ive seen several on track and they do very well (even after 5k)
bear in mind the limiter is just over 6k
my vts and my gti both peak power at just over 6.5k and limiter is 7200 on gti and 78 on the vts
so that puts that into perspective and the vtr is about right
yes a vtr will not perform like a vts
but who cares tbh
i had a 1.1 that id sorted and was planning to track and it was about as fast as a standard vtr
its all down to having fun at the end of the day
also no everyone can just buy a vts
insureance ect (yes dropping a vts lump in makes insureance go up)
if it was me id tune the vtr

oh an btw ive not got nor have i owned one
but driving my mates and seeing what i have of them i think there a damn good car and im looking at one as a track car soon

also playing you must enjoy playing with fire yes??
as keep taking digs at ryan wont go down well

23rd January 2009, 11:40

no one is saying the vts is shit, people are just saying the vtr is a good engine and if done right can be very quick. Chill dude i'm sure your vts is very rapid

23rd January 2009, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

its better havin a stock vts than a tuned vtr than will probably blow up on u. like urs ryan

oh and as for the 'lad' comment. there work is great quality. probs a little better than ur handy work?

just a little thing
have you looked at ryans vt'R'
theres a reason the r is emphasized
and also ryans car has had input from a lot of very knowledgeable lads
and from what ive seen of it theres no wories of it going bang

and shall i find the other guy on here with a lad car where the pistns chewed themselves
some of there cars are good some are shite
and there rollers are renowned for giving silly figures
like the 180 conversion supposedly get cams and headwork to 180hp at fly
more like high 150s maybe low 160s

im not saying yours isnt the power it is a iirc the tour de corse never went on lad rollers to get its figures
but still shouting praise of lad usually falls on deaf ears

23rd January 2009, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

im sorry ryan i forgot about your ability to nail that honda exige round the nurburgring?? notice that every1 posting has a vtr. and is probably just a bit peeved that they do ? i would be

ryan its easy for you to say a vtr is good round a track when you have got a million horsepower under the bonnet, which fair play you do. but do you remember the days of 90 or 100 horsepower they are uter bollocks at high revs. so for track they are poo no question about it. this dude who posted the thread is talkin about spendin 1k tuning it and all im sayin is its better havin a stock vts than a tuned vtr than will probably blow up on u. like urs ryan

oh and as for the 'lad' comment. there work is great quality. probs a little better than ur handy work?

summed up you are saying VTRs are slow. i love mine its fast enough and its not all about outline power figgures.

also i think i one of very few, i can easily afford a VTS but i prefare my VTR, i just prefare it, if i wanted a VTS i would get one but i dont i like VTRs i think there great.

23rd January 2009, 13:32

The 8v's are dieing out slowly..Dont just whack a 16v in..Work with what you have..The VTR is good in its own right..The power is everywhere, very torquey unlike the 16v which needs be revved alot to get the most out of it..Peak tourque on the 16v is far higher than on the VTR..

Your car as it is will push 16v's if you can drive it properly..16v's dont fly past the 98bhp VTR's in a straight line until you get up and above 80/90mph..On a track you wont really notice any difference tbh..

I say keep the 8v and work with that..If you want more power cam it if you must, but in standard form they are bomb proof engines with plenty of grunt imo..

23rd January 2009, 13:40

dont get me wrong vtr's are good cars. i had 1. as you can see in the pick i put up previous thats me in it in oulton park. its probably the best handling car ya can buy. im just saying its a tad slow as standard. but like alex-vts says they are hell of alot of fun, as are vts's. im not trying to offend any1 sayin vtrs are shit. just slow. but they make up for that in the bends. and as for ryan he knows im only playin

23rd January 2009, 13:41

Saxotourdecorse - Wtf are you chatting about? VTR's are shite? Crap over 5k? LOL..You obviously know fuck all about engines..The nature of the VTR isn't a high revving engine, its more torquey..In standard form they pull like trains until around 6k..The one you drove was obviously a dog..

If you think VTR's are shite on track, i will challenge you and your 16v..I have been all over 182's, 172's, TVR's, M3's etc at Brands Hatch when the weather conditions suited the lower power of my VTR better (damp in places)..

23rd January 2009, 13:43

lol ok, as you can see that pic is of me in it in oulton park. and like i say ^^^ they not shite jus slow. and my vts has 161 brake so...

23rd January 2009, 13:47

It can have as much power as you want, without a proper diff i'll be right behind you through and out of the corners..

Anyway i'm not arguing about who will win on a track session as thats just petty..But you might want to refrain from saying they are slow..16v vs 8v std there isn't a huge difference..

23rd January 2009, 13:48

there not that slow though

you may have 161 but is your car capable of carrying the speed through the turns (i have no idea of your spec apart from you shouting about its power)

i made a 1.1 outrun a vtr in the turns due to setup
light stiff no pas or abs to interfere makes it go very well
keep the revs right and there wasnt much difference in a straight line either
that had about 60bhp

but thats not what the threads about

23rd January 2009, 14:07

I personally would stay with the VTR, as you know the history of the car, where it's been and what it's done.

I was very tempted to stick a S lump in mine, but was hard to find an engine with the same kinda mileage as my R.

As people said it's not only power which counts, it's the set up of everything else, not forgetting how good the driver is also.

23rd January 2009, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

im sorry ryan i forgot about your ability to nail that honda exige round the nurburgring?? notice that every1 posting has a vtr. and is probably just a bit peeved that they do ? i would be

ryan its easy for you to say a vtr is good round a track when you have got a million horsepower under the bonnet, which fair play you do. but do you remember the days of 90 or 100 horsepower they are uter bollocks at high revs. so for track they are poo no question about it. this dude who posted the thread is talkin about spendin 1k tuning it and all im sayin is its better havin a stock vts than a tuned vtr than will probably blow up on u. like urs ryan

oh and as for the 'lad' comment. there work is great quality. probs a little better than ur handy work?

Your inability to read once again has got the better of you my dear friend.
I have two vt'R's one still is on the 8v engine and as i said was good fun on track. As i said in my initial post its not about bhp on alot of circuits, its important to have a chassis set up to drive well.

At the end of the day im not the 8vs biggest fan, but people can still have fun in them, and it can be very easy to perform good lap times in them when set up well. I expect the stock hatch lap times around the UK circuits are a bit quicker than yours to be honest

If you want to keep trying to dig at me fell free to send me a pm to discuss your 'attitute' on here a bit more

24th January 2009, 16:51

i wana see a race now lol

2nd February 2009, 01:13

thanks for all the feedback, after thinks about it for a while and looking into camming and remapping my vtr...turns out it isnt all that worthwhile lol. so went over my budget and bought a 1999 V reg Vts for £1200, has 87,000 on the clock but comes with full service history which is what really swung it for me.
mods jst now
1.exhaust got it running a scorpion decat with a jetex exhaust system (still standard manifold)
2. induction kit simota carbon fibre

so now got 2 cars and insured on both, however the plan is to cancel my insurance on the vts and keep it offroad..save up about £1200 and take it down to L.A.D motorsport and go for the engine work to near 160bhp for £960 any1 had their car dun by them and if so hows it running?

2nd February 2009, 01:22

if you use lad please dont for the love of god take the power figures they claim seriously.

they are well known BY MANY that the power they claim is not what the figures are

2nd February 2009, 01:23

for 155bhp ish on a TU5JP engine

Catcam 708s and a remap, and some decent breathing mods.

2nd February 2009, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

im sorry ryan i forgot about your ability to nail that honda exige round the nurburgring?? notice that every1 posting has a vtr. and is probably just a bit peeved that they do ? i would be

ryan its easy for you to say a vtr is good round a track when you have got a million horsepower under the bonnet, which fair play you do. but do you remember the days of 90 or 100 horsepower they are uter bollocks at high revs. so for track they are poo no question about it. this dude who posted the thread is talkin about spendin 1k tuning it and all im sayin is its better havin a stock vts than a tuned vtr than will probably blow up on u. like urs ryan

oh and as for the 'lad' comment. there work is great quality. probs a little better than ur handy work?

lad claim stupid power its a fact some guy on hear got told his was 170 bhp from lad with proof got it rr'd and it came in at a wopping 120-125 odd iirc

2nd February 2009, 01:26

Quote:

ENGINE and EXHAUST
Power raised to approximately 160 bhp at the flywheel by extensive cylinder head modification, incorporating larger inlet and exhaust ports and revised camshaft timing. An exhaust manifold and system based on the rally Kit Car engine can be fitted to the 160 bhp kit; this produces another 10 bhp raising the power output to approximately 170 bhp.

I forgot how much this made me laugh... 160bhp on standard cams ftw..

and 170bhp on standard inlet manifold LOL

2nd February 2009, 01:32

max powaaaaaa tunning ftw

2nd February 2009, 01:36

LAD had quite a good reputation in some of the 205 rally series, but most people are not deluded enough now to listen to the bhp claims

2nd February 2009, 01:45

so pretty much stay away from L.A.D motorsport. reason i looked into it was because i came across this saxo 193bhp

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=320335847729

who had been to lad and then remapped.
what im after is a fast 1/4 mile time, so from what i hav heard/read about im best fitting a 4-1 manifold since i will be wanting my power high up? any recomendations?
and also what engine work should i do? live quite close to a company called hi-flowheads in edinburgh who seem to get good write ups in french cars mag. mayb go to them for cylinder headwork?

2nd February 2009, 01:48

there is NO WAY in hell thats 193bhp.

LOL I do laugh at the bullshit power people claim.

if you want a better quate rmile then look more into gearboxes and getting traction aswell as power.

personally in scotland theres only one place id go and thats GMC motorsport. John is a proper engine builder.

2nd February 2009, 01:52

Quote:

hi there, work was carried out at L.A.D. Motorsport. The work carried out is: extensive head cylinder modifications, incorporating larger inlet & exhaust ports and revised camshaft timing with new racing pulleys. Exhaust manifold and system is based on the rally kit fitted to the now 160bhp car and produces another 10bhp output to approx 170bhp. A complete suspension by L.A.D. was fitted. The ecu was then upgraded afterwards at a cost of £900, which now takes the car to 190bhp. The car then had a paddle clutch fitted to control the power from the newly modified engine. i hope this is off interest, and happy bidding!!!

fucking idiots

2nd February 2009, 02:00

awryt cheers i will look into that in the moring, rep left.

and yeh i know what u mean about that 1, people with aspirated engines struggle to get that. and he isnt even on throttle boddies.

looking back at it i supose what L.A.D claim it is a bit too good to be true...

the bway its running jst now traction isnt really a problem...with a decent take off i can put my foot flat to the floor without spinning in 1st.u mention gearbox...i thought the vts gearbox was ment to be good for 1/4 mile, im sure iv read on here before of people fitting them to their vtR

?

2nd February 2009, 02:08

theoretically the s1 rallye box has the best final drive to work the sports ratios of the TU gearbox. However you then really want the rev limit to suit it and will sacrafice alot of top end etc...

I wouldnt advise one on a standard vtr engine for sure. The problem aswell is you dont want to change to often and loose momentum, as sometimes a better in gear performance can be lost by the reduction in 'gear time'

Considering my engine made 198.4 on the rollers, and I have a recept for £4300 worth of build cost, without the cost of the throttle bodies, ecu, mapping, manifold or exhaust it shows how laughable 190 is when you see the spec that mine is running and supposedly producing similar power lol.