106 Rallye s2 to vtr

27th January 2009, 23:21

y r the 106 Rallye s2 so quick? they not the same sort of engine whats in the saxo vtr? i have a 2003 vtr, i want 106 rallye stats. o to 60 in 8.5? how could i get this sort of power?

27th January 2009, 23:23

its mostly down to the gearbox mate.

and the engine is 100bhp rather than 90 or 98bhp.

27th January 2009, 23:24

isnt it the weight a lil different ?

27th January 2009, 23:35

but its only 2bhp to mine, gear box cant make it that much more can they? dont they rev higher aswell, i'v heard they beat 106gti/vts

27th January 2009, 23:38

They are a bit lighter

but yeah, the gearboxes make a lot of difference

27th January 2009, 23:40

got little essentials like no powersteering... thinner carpets, anything that could save weight, loads of electrics cut back and stuff....

27th January 2009, 23:44

Rallye has a raised rev limit and close ratio box.

27th January 2009, 23:46

so do they beat 106 gti / saxo vts? so if i lighten my saxo and get a rallye gear box it would fly?

27th January 2009, 23:50

Very much doubt they'd get near a valver. Would most likely beat a VTR though.

All depends what route you want to go down with your car mate. If you want more power, the short answer is to buy a VTS.

27th January 2009, 23:55

want a vts but cant find a mint one, just got a 53 plate vtr with 45k on the clock, silver totally standered, three owers from new and one of them was ma best mate for two years, 3rd one is me

my brother has a proven 160bhp 106 gti gonna buy it when he sells it, its also totally mint

27th January 2009, 23:59

well if you wanna go fast sort the stoppers and suspension first
the rallyes are fast due to the lack of extras
no sunroof manual windows no pas or abs lighter interior like smaller doorcards

the gearboxes make a huuuuge difference too
hence guys buy the rallye gearboxes for the gtis and saxos a lot (ive got one from an xsi as its a shorter ratio)

28th January 2009, 00:00

does my vtr have abs btw?

28th January 2009, 00:06

where could i get a s2 rallye gearbox.

28th January 2009, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoGs_MacAulay

does my vtr have abs btw?

some did as an optional extra iirc

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoGs_MacAulay

where could i get a s2 rallye gearbox.

rallye register or 106oc
might see 1 pop up in the sales sections like

or ebay

btw the s1 rallye box was shorter so faster acceleration

28th January 2009, 00:13

is it worth making my saxo lighter? + rallye gear box or just wait for a vts/gti motor to buy? i love my vtr tho, there not that slow, kills alot up here part from a vts and keeps up the ass of a w reg polo gti

28th January 2009, 00:15

less weight is free power
it depends how far you want to go tbh
i had a 1.1 that was very nippy due to the fact i had 1 bucket and my dials zip tied to my stering column and nothing else
not the most practical/comfy car though

i hope these cars you compared to are on track in a safe enviromet

28th January 2009, 00:20

yeah it sure is, got 5 points so need to keep the heed down. there a guide somewhere for taking seats eg out or it really easy? i'v got wires going into my front seats, this for air bags?

28th January 2009, 00:22

its only 4 bolts mate
the wires are the seatbelt pretensioners and on some modela airbags

28th January 2009, 00:29

sounds easy, gonna strip it this weekend, gonna strip everything. will i even fell it quicker 0-60? with only two seats?

28th January 2009, 00:34

it makes a lot of difference mate

28th January 2009, 00:37

nice, got a ge quick shift ordered, next 4-2-1 manifold with full system, ill slower get there, lol. what u think my 0-60 time will be after all this?

28th January 2009, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoGs_MacAulay

y r the 106 Rallye s2 so quick? they not the same sort of engine whats in the saxo vtr? i have a 2003 vtr, i want 106 rallye stats. o to 60 in 8.5? how could i get this sort of power?

No chance from 0-60 for 8.5sek. Standars VTS-1.6 16v is 8,7 (7,8sek). Is not the gearbox is not the weight. I'm 100% sure that Rallye is not standard 100%

28th January 2009, 01:30

is beacause there lighter mp lol

28th January 2009, 11:02

Its possible they can do 0-60 in 8.5 secs aint it?
Better gearbox and less weight than a VTS although the VTS is still 7.8 secs?

28th January 2009, 11:16

According to Evo magazine its 8.8 to 60 and it weighs 865kg and had 103bhp.

Although it weighs less than a VTS/GTI the bhp per ton is more in a VTS/GTI hence it being quicker.

28th January 2009, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scribbles

According to Evo magazine its 8.8 to 60 and it weighs 865kg and had 103bhp.

Although it weighs less than a VTS/GTI the bhp per ton is more in a VTS/GTI hence it being quicker.

Ahhh i see! More power to weight ratio then.
I think i may need a new gearbox soon, im thinking of investing in the S1 gearbox.
Good idea or bad?

28th January 2009, 11:37

depends how you use the car
on the motorway youl be sitting at higher revs
apart from that it could be fun

28th January 2009, 18:41

Thanks Scribbles, just confurm that its a standered 106 s2 rallye thats got 103bhp that does 0-62 in 8.8? i know it is but just for every1 that dont believe me, not being funny but a standered 106 s2 rallye kills standered gti / vts. i know, i cant believe it myself but seen it for my own eyes!

28th January 2009, 18:57

Must be a fairly poor driver in the valver then.

28th January 2009, 19:05

maybe so, i really couldnt believe my eyes, but the s2 rallye is mad for a 8v, will so i think

28th January 2009, 19:08

Didn't realise there was 85KG between the Rallye and GTI. In that case, there shouldn't be a great lot in it.

28th January 2009, 19:38

I have a rallye and there are a number of differences. The gearbox is the bigeest being a much shorter ratio compared to any of the other gearboxes, although the 1.4 xsi ones are also a good solid box. The ratios in the s1 and s2 boxes are exactly the same however the s2 box hasa bigger crown wheel and so has a slightly higher final drive and so can make 62 in 2nd rather than having to change into 3rd.

Other differences are in the head. The Rallye has a different cam that no other model has i think. its actually quite a hot cam as standard 260+ iirc. There are some other differences in the head i think they flow slightly better.

The rear beams are also different. Rallyes and Gti's use 24mm ARB's where as Vtr's i think use 19mm and vts's 21mm? ( correct me if im wrong) This makes the rear end alot stiffer. but if your not careful this will put you backwards into a hedge much quicker lol.

An 8v rallye wouldnt beat a gti in a straight line as the gti/ vts engine does have more power, however on a shorter windy track say a hill climb im sure they would be a bit closer.

The Vtr is still great fun to drive and to be honest for their price compared to that of a rallye i couldnt fault them atall. Hope this helps

28th January 2009, 19:45

trade u a 53 plate saxo vtr + cash for ur s2 then? ahaha anyway my vtr does 62mph in 2nd, what do rallyes redline at?

28th January 2009, 19:46

on your bike

28th January 2009, 19:48

whats the redline at on rallye's? i wouldnt mate, i love s2's if u cant tell! ahaha

28th January 2009, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoGs_MacAulay

Thanks Scribbles, just confurm that its a standered 106 s2 rallye thats got 103bhp that does 0-62 in 8.8? i know it is but just for every1 that dont believe me, not being funny but a standered 106 s2 rallye kills standered gti / vts. i know, i cant believe it myself but seen it for my own eyes!

What? I said the GTI/VTS is quicker and according to Evo it does 0-60 in 7.4 seconds and everyone knows it has 120bhp.

All the values on Evo are for standard cars as they tested them new.

GTI - 128bhp per ton
Rallye - 121bhp per ton

Therefore GTI > Rallye

28th January 2009, 20:09

sorry my mistake, just made a tit of myself. ha. right so vts / gti r quicker? some people have been telling me lies up here. sorry all

28th January 2009, 20:17

Yes GTIs and VTSs are quicker than Rallyes 0-60.

28th January 2009, 20:35

Yes Rallye is quick but is 103hp and can not be quicker then VTS or GTI. It may be quicker then VTR. But from VTS NO CHANCE

28th January 2009, 22:53

1.3i Petrol 0-60 Top Speed BHP
1.3i Rallye 3d 9.7 s 119 mph 100 bhp

thats the stats of the rallye if u dont believe it mate then check parkers! the car gods haha well for facts nd figures heres where u wanna look http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/...aspx?model=656

28th January 2009, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlatko_vts

No chance from 0-60 for 8.5sek. Standars VTS-1.6 16v is 8,7 (7,8sek). Is not the gearbox is not the weight. I'm 100% sure that Rallye is not standard 100%

Well I made 103bhp on the rollers, and my 0-60, timed at York raceway was 8.55 seconds. Thats a VTR engine, still not possible?
VTR engine, 4-2-1, decat, induction kit, and stripped. And a 1.1 gearbox.

29th January 2009, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

Well I made 103bhp on the rollers, and my 0-60, timed at York raceway was 8.55 seconds. Thats a VTR engine, still not possible?
VTR engine, 4-2-1, decat, induction kit, and stripped. And a 1.1 gearbox.

so ur sayin if i get a 4-2-1 manifold witch is also decating my mode, induction kit.. i'v got. stripp it and a 1.1 gearbox i'll bring my 0-60 9.1 seconds down to about 8 and a half?

29th January 2009, 00:40

tyres will make a big difference in 0-60. probabaly the best thing to do. A 4-2-1 and decat will free up the engine a bit but dont expect the world. the engine will deffinately feel more responsive though

My rallye at the moment has ;

4-2-1 heatwrapped stainless mani, decat group N pugsport, Custom Green Induction, Split fire leads and plugs. Omp Lower brace, Eibach springs and adjustable Avo's on the rear. Its completely stripped out with 2 sparco Evo Fibreglass buckets and 4 point harnesses. Momo Wheel. 14" Compomotive MO's with toyo proxes. 206 gti 266mm front brakes and 306 gti 6 rears.

I have jsut bought a vts engine which i will put into it at some point probabaly wiht 708's and bike carbs and i have braided lines for the whole brake system going through a wilwood proportioning valve

whould be a beast when done!

29th January 2009, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoGs_MacAulay

so ur sayin if i get a 4-2-1 manifold witch is also decating my mode, induction kit.. i'v got. stripp it and a 1.1 gearbox i'll bring my 0-60 9.1 seconds down to about 8 and a half?

With a decent launch yeah.
As said above, decent tyres will make a difference too. Since then i've got a better exhaust (and i mean i can feel the difference between this and my old one) and a set of better tyres, I reckon I could knock quite a bit off that now.

29th January 2009, 01:16

yeah am not expecting the world from this, just want my vtr quicker, i wanted to know y the rallye s2 was quicker and thanks to every1 i now know. 4-2-1 worth the cash then yeah? i cant be bothered with changing the oil filter so would be buyin one that fitted with my mk2 oil filter, so these are a bit more are they not? i kinda wanted my vtr to be same as a standered s2 rallye but looks like its not worth it. i have got this all wrong, every1 up my end says the s2 rallye kill gti's. now i know this is not true. best idea i'v got now is sell the vtr get the best vts i can find but this may take time so in the mean time ill get a 4-2-1 manifold, full system. i wouldnt really change the gear box till my fooked up. but thank u all btw for giving me a beta understanding

29th January 2009, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

Well I made 103bhp on the rollers, and my 0-60, timed at York raceway was 8.55 seconds. Thats a VTR engine, still not possible?
VTR engine, 4-2-1, decat, induction kit, and stripped. And a 1.1 gearbox.

I said standard, SEE NOW

http://www.zeperfs.com/duel1067-137.htm

29th January 2009, 01:58

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match137-548-276-547.htm

29th January 2009, 02:50

You said standard VTS. Not Standard VTR. And the reason I mentioned it was because mine is running the same power as book figures state a Rallye is standard, and it has an 8.5 second 0-60, which you said a Rallye would not do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlatko_vts

No chance from 0-60 for 8.5sek. Standars VTS-1.6 16v is 8,7 (7,8sek).

And GoGs_MacAulay, yeah a manifold is definately worth it.

29th January 2009, 09:25

Theres a few rallye engine bits up for sale here: i would recomend getting the cam

possibly the head if your really wanting to look into it.

29th January 2009, 09:25

http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2...ad.php?t=61187

29th January 2009, 12:58

Jamesuk87 ur rally sounds awsome get a progress thread on the go!

29th January 2009, 13:02

thought the VTS GTi, rallyes an 306gti-6 all had the same rear brakes??

29th January 2009, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigy_87

thought the VTS GTi, rallyes an 306gti-6 all had the same rear brakes??

They use the same size disk but the gti-6 rears have a 2mm bigger piston

29th January 2009, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTSTomE

Jamesuk87 ur rally sounds awsome get a progress thread on the go!

Ill update my one on the Rallye register properly then ill link it onto here

done loads recently but i havnt taken any pictures!

29th January 2009, 14:02

There is no point in putting the Rallye cam/head onto the VTR..the MK2 98bhp model VTR was Citroen's version of the Rallye, hence the up in power from 90 to 98bhp..Its not an awful lot slower in the real world either..

Although it was Citroen's version they didnt try and make it as quick, its a more comfortable car and appealed to everyone, not just the performance minded that would only buy the Rallye..

As there is only a few bhp difference in the engines, your better off changing the gearbox over and stripping it out..

Personally i would have my 98bhp VTR over a Rallye..

The torsion bar's are all the same at 19mm iirc..The ARB's differ between the 106 GTi's and VT* model saxo's by 1mm..

29th January 2009, 19:44

Early 106 GTis and Rallyes had 24mm ARBs, later GTis had 22mm.

29th January 2009, 22:19

i have a 24mm ARB

much better on track

30th January 2009, 01:14

Currently considering one for mine too.

6th February 2009, 12:17

even though the difference in the mk2 vtr head and the s2 rallye head is not much, is it still possible to straight swap a s2 rallye head with s2 cam over the standard mk2 vtr head without any problems and see a few extra bhp?

6th February 2009, 17:28

get an inlet manifold of the mk1 rallye. i had one on my xsi along with 1.1gearbox, full exhaust and mani, bmc and chip and i could hit 7200rpm in second gear in just over 8 seconds(speedo read about 65 at that speed, not that i believe it)

6th February 2009, 17:39

will this be a straight fit on the mk2 vtr head and work fine with vtr mk2 throttle body, fual rail?

sorry in advance if that was a stupid question but am not to clued up on how this really works. Am fine with strippnig out my car a fitting the normal bolt-ons like manifold, induction kit etc but still lack knowledge on this topic? cheers

6th February 2009, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoGs_MacAulay

Thanks Scribbles, just confurm that its a standered 106 s2 rallye thats got 103bhp that does 0-62 in 8.8? i know it is but just for every1 that dont believe me, not being funny but a standered 106 s2 rallye kills standered gti / vts. i know, i cant believe it myself but seen it for my own eyes!

was the guy driving the vts/gti in reverse? :L

vts with a good driver should be quicker to 60 than the 106 s2 rally

How about a vts moddifed engine with cams and re-map and a s1 rally box ?

7th February 2009, 23:02

it'll fit a black top dunno about silver top, i used my xsi injectors but you wanna use the rallye throttle body aswell cos it's bigger.