Bilstein alternative

1. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

   #1 31st January 2009, 16:21

   are there any other brands worth looking at since bilstein have shot up in price?
   
   the suspension is for a track car that i'm building but i'm on a tight budget.
   
   i'm hoping to do a few track days a year plus some hill climbs/sprints etc.
2. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #2 31st January 2009, 16:25

   bilstein are the better brand to use imo if going track etc..
   
   just save up the extra £££
3. TU-Tuning Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2006 Bristol Posts: 16575 JP4urio, 306 DTurbo SportShed

   #3 31st January 2009, 16:27

   Konis are meant to be pretty shabba mate
4. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

   #4 31st January 2009, 16:43

   i've seen the Koni sports for £300
   
   the B8's are now £510.
   
   grp N's are now £570
   
   how do the Koni's compare to the bilsein's?
   
   are they really worth the extra money?
   
   considering the car will only see the track a few times a year.
   
   
   how about GAZ coilovers? i've seen them for £440.
5. DanT Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 P'boro Posts: 1619 R27 Clio

   #5 31st January 2009, 16:54

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Curran i've seen the Koni sports for £300 the B8's are now £510. grp N's are now £570 how do the Koni's compare to the bilsein's? are they really worth the extra money? considering the car will only see the track a few times a year. how about GAZ coilovers? i've seen them for £440.

   
   So happy i invested in my B8's when they were lower in price. Cant believe how much of an increase it is on the price now!
   
   The gaz coilovers on ebay are you referring to? I have seen them too, think they look good, i think they are also fully rebuildable too. Not heard anything bad about them either.
   
   The ATS ones on kamracing are an option i suppose too, but i think you only get the front units and i assume you will also be needing rears.
   
   Tough choice for you mate, and not to mention the fact nothing is going to be cheap, are you doing the rear bar yourself?
6. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

   #6 31st January 2009, 16:58

   £570?!
   
   http://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufactu...s-saxo-90.html
7. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

   #7 31st January 2009, 16:59

   i hadnt seen the GAZ coilovers on ebay but they are probably the same.
   
   the ATS ones are only the front so will work out to be about the same if not more than the bilstein's.
   
   i've heard good things about GAZ but i dont really need coilovers tbh. i doubt i would ever adjust them.
   
   i just want to have some fun doing some cheap motorsport.
8. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

   #8 31st January 2009, 17:00

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by raunchz £570?! http://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufactu...s-saxo-90.html

   with springs.
   
   i'm talking about full kits as its the only fair way to compare prices.
9. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #9 31st January 2009, 17:17

   GAZ, had these on the nova and im going to fit them to the saxo.
10. DanT Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 P'boro Posts: 1619 R27 Clio

    #10 31st January 2009, 17:20

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by raunchz £570?! http://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufactu...s-saxo-90.html

    http://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufactu...xo-pug-58.html
11. DanT Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 P'boro Posts: 1619 R27 Clio

    #11 31st January 2009, 17:21

    Billies ftw curran my man.
    
    You know it makes sense.
12. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #12 31st January 2009, 17:23

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by williamsvts GAZ, had these on the nova and im going to fit them to the saxo.

    how would you rate them compared to the B8's or grp N's?
    
    they're only £400 on ebay.
13. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #13 31st January 2009, 19:29

    Koni yellows(sport) are pretty good.
    
    Bilsteins are well priced from kam racing.
14. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #14 31st January 2009, 19:33

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AlexR Koni yellows(sport) are pretty good. Bilsteins are well priced from kam racing.

    how good are we talking?
    
    as good as B8's?
    
    
    
    the bilstein prices above are from kam racing
15. AlexR Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2004 Kunt & Sorrey Posts: 5763 Rep mobiles & Joes ma

    #15 31st January 2009, 19:41

    The ride quality on bilsteins is going to be noticeably better.
16. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #16 31st January 2009, 19:45

    how about the handling?
    
    not really bothered about the ride comfort.
    
    
    anyone know the spring rate for the koni's?
17. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #17 31st January 2009, 19:48

    handling and the comfort i found good.
18. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #18 31st January 2009, 19:57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bullit handling and the comfort i found good.

    thats goos to hear.
    
    i'm not sure if i can justify spending hundres extra for the billies when the car wont get used very often.
    
    
    would be helpful to know the spring rate to compare to the faulkners
19. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #19 1st February 2009, 10:23

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Curran how would you rate them compared to the B8's or grp N's? they're only £400 on ebay.

    only been passenger in car with bilstiens but i cant fault the GAZ dampers at all, my nova felt alot more settled in corners than my saxo on konis, turn in wasnt as quick but felt as though the car would hold the road more. it had a quaife ATB aswell though so that would have had a big effect on handling.
20. rayray1987 L-plater Joined: May 2008 Flitwick, Bedfordshire Posts: 95 1.6 16v gti s2 106, (cleaned) 1.4 furio saxo (tra

    #20 1st February 2009, 10:24

    why dont you mix and match, you can get avo adjustable shocks for around the £320 mark, mixed with some decent 40mm springs.
    
    will handle really well, and having that adjustment on the shocks is ideal depending on what tracks you'll be racing on etc
21. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #21 1st February 2009, 10:27

    gaz dampers are adjustable, and ive had avo coilovers before and would NEVER EVER buy avo again.
22. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #22 1st February 2009, 10:35

    I have Group N's on my 205.
    
    The best thing i have done so far! The difference they made was unreal! Worth the £560 i paid for them !
23. AlexBp West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL

    #23 1st February 2009, 10:45

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Curran thats goos to hear. i'm not sure if i can justify spending hundres extra for the billies when the car wont get used very often. would be helpful to know the spring rate to compare to the faulkners

    think of it this way
    all the full on track cars dont get usd loads
    yet have thousands spent on the chassis
    
    
    its more down to how well you want the car to perform when yo do use it
    i would say take a look at the ast coilovers mate
    kam had a set at an rr day i went to and they looked rather good
    you can choose spring rates and the dampers are adjustable which means you can set them up to how you want them
    
    im planning a set for mine in a few months
    only think is they come without rear shocks
24. Karl Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2006 Ashford Posts: 25611 LY R26

    #24 1st February 2009, 10:50

    I cant comment on other dampers as Billies B8s are the only aftermarket dampers ive had, but the car is noticably more "planted" on the road,
    feels like each corner is pushed into the floor more. (if that makes any sense...)
25. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #25 1st February 2009, 12:00

    thanks for all the comment so far.
    
    all the people who have billies, are you using the faulkner springs?
    
    how about using the faulkner springs with different dampers such as the koni's or GAZ?
    
    how much effect does the spring have compared to the dampers?
26. DanT Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 P'boro Posts: 1619 R27 Clio

    #26 1st February 2009, 12:04

    Im using the eibach sport springs atm, alot of people think they are too soft but i honestly cant see how at all, my saxo is stiff as hell at the front, does have upper and lower braces too.
    
    I say all that but i still find myself interested in the faulkners lol.
27. Jackman Saxperience Addict Joined: Sep 2006 Bridgend, South Wales Posts: 11234 iTB 205 Rallye, 205 STDT.

    #27 1st February 2009, 19:55

    I'm also running Eibachs as its was i was advised at the time!
    
    Can't seem to fault them so far!
28. AlexBp West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL

    #28 1st February 2009, 20:13

    the saxo eibachs are extremely soft for trck use
    look at most trck cars the sprins are 160lb upwards (most are over 200)
    the eibachs are bout 130 iirc
    for example im looking at going quite stiff 300lb ish and thicker bars
    i would say something over 150 at least tbh
    
    damper wise b8s cant controll mich over 170 properly from wht ive read
    so group ns or pugsports come in then
    
    its a bit of a science to get a well match setup
29. DanT Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 P'boro Posts: 1619 R27 Clio

    #29 1st February 2009, 20:59

    Im pretty sure i read somewhere on here the eibach springs are 145lbs man, standard saxo springs being 115lbs
30. TU-Tuning Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2006 Bristol Posts: 16575 JP4urio, 306 DTurbo SportShed

    #30 1st February 2009, 21:46

    Fuck me I didnt realise they went up that much! The few parts I want soon are all going up dammit. Ive heard the APEX coilies are good though?
31. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #31 1st February 2009, 22:25

    the price change is a real bummer. We will look for alternatives as we dont expect to be selling much Bilsteins until the pound recovers.
32. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #32 2nd February 2009, 08:58

    nowt wrong with the konis dude, replied to your pm btw
33. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #33 2nd February 2009, 11:27

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KamRacing the price change is a real bummer. We will look for alternatives as we dont expect to be selling much Bilsteins until the pound recovers.

    thats good to hear. please can you keep us updated when/if you find anything suitable. i'm sure you will anyway.
    
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Steve_VTS nowt wrong with the konis dude, replied to your pm btw

    thanks for the reply.
    
    i'm just a bit worried they may be a bit soft. i'm not rejecting koni's yet, i'm just trying to look at all the options before i make a decision. i have emailed balance motorsport to try and get some more info on the GAZ set up. i'll see what they have to say.
34. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #34 2nd February 2009, 13:16

    depends what your going to use the car for.
35. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #35 2nd February 2009, 13:53

    mainly for track days but also for sprints and hillclimbs hopefully. it will be road legal but will rarely see the road. i do plan on driving it to the events though.
    
    according to balance motorsport the GAZ shocks are matched to 300lb springs which is too stiff for standard torsion bars.
    
    surely they should be matched to a range of spring rates as the dampers are adjustable?
    
    e.g. 200lb on the softest setting and 300lb on the hardest?
    
    or is that not how it works?
36. DanT Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 P'boro Posts: 1619 R27 Clio

    #36 2nd February 2009, 13:58

    Group n rears, 21/22mm bars, gaz fronts = sorted
37. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #37 2nd February 2009, 13:59

    i ran them on the nova with 270lb front and 240lb rear, prob different to saxo though. but there was a MASSIVE amount of difference in stiffness from softest to hardest settings.
38. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #38 2nd February 2009, 14:05

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by williamsvts i ran them on the nova with 270lb front and 240lb rear, prob different to saxo though. but there was a MASSIVE amount of difference in stiffness from softest to hardest settings.

    what setting did you have them on?
    
    soft or hard or somewhere in between?
39. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #39 2nd February 2009, 14:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DanT Group n rears, 21/22mm bars, gaz fronts = sorted

    
    the GAZ are rears also so would just need uprated torsion bars unless the damping can be turned down enough. if they can, they will be ideal.
    
    i can get a fixed kit for £320 with GAZ springs (not sure what rate the spring are, i will email them now)
    
    or i can get the shocks (front and rear) for £260 and use custom springs
    
    or i can go for the coilovers for £400
40. Curran Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5387

    #40 2nd February 2009, 14:14

    whats the hardest you can go on the front with standard torsion bars?
41. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #41 2nd February 2009, 15:07

    it was somewhere in the middle i had them set.