Big Brakes Without ABS?! Info needed.

23rd February 2009, 21:13

As mine is a vts conversion i don't have ABS. I was thinking the other day as i'm about to have some brembo 4-pots fitted to the front am i going to encounter any problems of locking up the fronts. Is it going to be worth investing in the 's' abs system? Anybody whose had a 'r' with 4 pots or an 's' without abs and 4 pots info off yourselves would be very helpful.

23rd February 2009, 22:29

no need for the abs mate.
theres alot of people running 4pots and 1 person i know runing 6pots without abs and its fine. just get used to the way they work and feel and you will be fine.

23rd February 2009, 22:38

You dont need the ABS> got the 6 pots on mine and the brakes are so good that i really dont have to press anywhere near as hard on the pedal and still stop so much more quickly than standard brakes so the chances of locking up are really slim.

23rd February 2009, 22:46

i recently took my abs off and i have wilwoods

itll be fine man

24th February 2009, 00:15

cheers guys for the peace of mind, at least i know its tried and tested. Are the brembos as good as say the tarox you have willsy or the willwoods u have alex?

24th February 2009, 01:50

Think i locked up once but the road was greasy as hell tbh

its all about the driver, ABS is just a driving aid

24th February 2009, 01:52

What set-up do u have pred?

24th February 2009, 01:55

Wilwoods mate, midilite ones, smart pads (wilwood ones), rears are just mintex and the car is a vtr

Needing a bigger master cylinder though 23mm

24th February 2009, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTSTomE

cheers guys for the peace of mind, at least i know its tried and tested. Are the brembos as good as say the tarox you have willsy or the willwoods u have alex?

They are all very very good calipers. The difference between them all in terms of say stopping from 60mph->0mph i couldnt possibly know really.

Differences can be made up again depending on what disks and pads you use too even with the standard brakes there are noticeable differences between cheap disks and pads and an expensive set.

With 4pot/6pots as predator rightly points out you'll benefit greatly from upgrading the master cylinder aswel as the standard one feels a bit poor.

Ive got a Pre99 pug 406 NON ABS one which is 23.6mm if i remember correctly. You can pick these up for under £50 new or around £20 second hand.

24th February 2009, 10:24

lol are you all talkin about road driving or track, because you definately need abs on track or you cant drive for shit because without abs they should lock up everytime if you are doing it right.

24th February 2009, 11:37

Decent tyres will help a lot, my abs was kicking in all the time with budget tyres and gti6 brakes.

24th February 2009, 15:14

Hmmm i know a few track cars without abs tbh mate

it wont lock up if you pump the brakes, thats all abs is doing really to prevent lock up

24th February 2009, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predator_VTR

Hmmm i know a few track cars without abs tbh mate

it wont lock up if you pump the brakes, thats all abs is doing really to prevent lock up

exactly thats not exactly efficient or safe on track. you need to brake as late and as hard as you can therefore having no abs will loose ya sooooo much time

24th February 2009, 15:21

Pah aint a hardcore driver if you have ABS imo

Tbh ive broke lateon roads before and never locked up its how hard you press pedal and tbh with 4 pots you dont have to press hard to get good braking power, all about gettting them warmed up too

24th February 2009, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

lol are you all talkin about road driving or track, because you definately need abs on track or you cant drive for shit because without abs they should lock up everytime if you are doing it right.

You don't need abs at all on track mate, I know of people without abs that are quicker round a track than with abs. If you use the brakes correctly, theres no reason to be locking up, therefore not needing abs. If your frequently locking up round corners on a track then your not driving right and braking too late into the corner which in turn will slow you down. Its all about slowing down at the correct time, hitting the apex of the curve and being as smooth as possible.

Abs just means you obviously can't drive as well as non abs drivers

24th February 2009, 15:29

saxotourdecourse quote
lol are you all talkin about road driving or track, because you definately need abs on track or you cant drive for shit because without abs they should lock up everytime if you are doing it right.

i agree abs is not the best idea on a track car and as said above if u are braking at the very last second and locking up maybe u need to change ur driving style , or have 20 mins on track with an instructor the fastest way round any track is smooth not hitting the brakes and locking up

24th February 2009, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harv

You don't need abs at all on track mate, I know of people without abs that are quicker round a track than with abs. If you use the brakes correctly, theres no reason to be locking up, therefore not needing abs. If your frequently locking up round corners on a track then your not driving right and braking too late into the corner which in turn will slow you down. Its all about slowing down at the correct time, hitting the apex of the curve and being as smooth as possible.

Abs just means you obviously can't drive as well as non abs drivers

i here all the latest supercar creations now have no abs.

u need to brake as hard and as late as ya can, anyone who says different is completely wrong and is very slow on track.

24th February 2009, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

i here all the latest supercar creations now have no abs.

u need to brake as hard and as late as ya can, anyone who says different is completely wrong and is very slow on track.

i see what ur saying but i think u will find the fastest way round any track is by carrying as much speed in to the corner as the car is set up for getting the apex right and carrying as much speed out of the corner on too the next straight , im not sure what brakes u have on ur saxo but i ran 283mm discs and good track pads and u do not have to brake hard and lock the wheels as the brakes are so much better

24th February 2009, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

lol are you all talkin about road driving or track, because you definately need abs on track or you cant drive for shit because without abs they should lock up everytime if you are doing it right.

erm no they wont
and most track cars run non abs as you get much better feedback
so you dont lock up

a good diver wont lock up even without abs
supercars have abs as most of there drvers prove driver skill and wallet sizer have no relation

24th February 2009, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex-VTS

erm no they wont
and most track cars run non abs as you get much better feedback
so you dont lock up

a good diver wont lock up even without abs
supercars have abs as most of there drvers prove driver skill and wallet sizer have no relation

Agreed. And supercars also have insane BHP compared to what the thread is about 'a saxo' lol. I still fail to see how you'd need abs on track though, and WTF is he doing to keep locking up???

Yes you need to brake late but not so late your locking up, thats just loosing valuable time on track...with a decent brake set up you should be able to brake late 'saxotourdecourse' without locking up as the braking power is greater and will slow you down faster. Are you running a standard brake set up anychance (not aimed at you Alex

).

24th February 2009, 16:51

the idea yes is to brake as hard and as late as possible whilst remaining smooth and carrying speed into, through, and out the corner.
On a track you want to be braking soo hard that you are just 0.1% away from locking up therefore being at max stopping power. A good driver will learn how there car reacts to different surfaces and weather changes, rather than relying on abs which when cutting in and out isnt slowing the car down at max stopping power

24th February 2009, 16:55

abs is shite on track as it doesnt brake smmothly either as it pumps on and off and can snatch which isnt good

iirc saxotourdecourse runs standard setup yes (from a thread the other day by him asking what to upgrade to)

24th February 2009, 16:57

yes i do but i have a standard setup (not for long) and i have never 'locked up' harv as i have abs, thats the point. and considering the thread starter and all of us own saxos i think abs is the best option as most of us probably are not lewis hamilton like people seem to make out

24th February 2009, 17:01

i dont think anyone claims to drive like lewis hamilton, but alot of guys on here spend some serious money on track days and driver tuition so i think that gives them the right to make these comments

24th February 2009, 17:03

like me .......... and my opinion is as stated

24th February 2009, 17:04

what track days you been on or who and where have you had tuition?

24th February 2009, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

yes i do but i have a standard setup (not for long) and i have never 'locked up' harv as i have abs, thats the point. and considering the thread starter and all of us own saxos i think abs is the best option as most of us probably are not lewis hamilton like people seem to make out

it is clear by what u have just said above that u are not listening to what people are saying if u really think abs is the thing to have on a track day then bloody good look to u

24th February 2009, 17:05

as long as the guy takes his time and gets use to it he will be fine though

tbh without abs there only as easy to lock up as standards

24th February 2009, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by andywiddss1

it is clear by what u have just said above that u are not listening to what people are saying if u really think abs is the thing to have on a track day then bloody good look to u

lol try takin abs off ya scooby then right that

24th February 2009, 17:15

guys lets not let this come down to an arguement

24th February 2009, 17:20

i prefer not having abs, i had the brembos with no ABS and it was fine. removing mine altogether as it pointless having it on the car.

24th February 2009, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

yes i do but i have a standard setup (not for long) and i have never 'locked up' harv as i have abs, thats the point. and considering the thread starter and all of us own saxos i think abs is the best option as most of us probably are not lewis hamilton like people seem to make out

Ok thats cool, should be better with some better and bigger brakes on it dude. Im not going to argue over the abs issue

, if you prefer it then cool....I personally don't and also hate power steering. Got it on my VTR now and I think it sucks apart from parking, much preferred the 1.0 non-PAS steering, seemed much, much more responsive and I liked the tug round corners

.

24th February 2009, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harv

Ok thats cool, should be better with some better and bigger brakes on it dude. Im not going to argue over the abs issue

, if you prefer it then cool....I personally don't and also hate power steering. Got it on my VTR now and I think it sucks apart from parking, much preferred the 1.0 non-PAS steering, seemed much, much more responsive and I liked the tug round corners

.

hence in my gti i have removed both abs and pas
its down to the driver at the end of the day

24th February 2009, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse

lol try takin abs off ya scooby then right that

no big arguement

but my scooby dosnt have abs

24th February 2009, 17:26

hahaha,

24th February 2009, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

hahaha,

i give up

24th February 2009, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by andywiddss1

no big arguement

but my scooby dosnt have abs

why not??

24th February 2009, 17:32

mine is one of the first wrx 1992 model no abs mate

24th February 2009, 17:45

surely it must lock up occasionally. down into the foggy s's.

24th February 2009, 17:46

as long as hes not too heavy on them i doubt it tbh

24th February 2009, 17:59

especially in the wet?

24th February 2009, 18:01

i had abs in the wet and still locked up

tbh just like moderating the right foot to stop wheelspin off the mark or having launch controll to keep it in check

24th February 2009, 18:16

abs is a load of shit tbh if you lock up alot its probably worth it but if u dont its not, i have it on my golf but iv only locked up 2ice and thats on snow either way your gonna slide abs or not

26th February 2009, 10:58

even with abs it can still lock a little bit mate before it bias's the braking. my civic has abs and yes it stops well but you dont realy have alot of feel and its not smooth.

its all down to person preference at the end of the day. some people may prefer some people not.