standard engine - throttle bodied

1. mikey362vtr Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Sheffield Posts: 316 R - reg Saxo VTR G - reg Mini Mayfair

   #1 10th March 2009, 00:54

   so im toying with the idea of more power now ive sorted my brakes and got some decent rubber on my rims.
   
   eventually im plan on turbo-ing my vtr, but for now im wondering weather it would be worth throttle bodying it and havin a remap how much would this benifit the standard engine?? is there any point??
   
   mike
2. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #2 10th March 2009, 00:56

   not a real point for the £££££ imo..
   
   the biggest reason for TBs is to allow equal airflow to each cylcinder with wilder cams. So unless going for wild cams (which when going boost you often dont want) i really wouldnt bother. TBs produce better power the wilder the cam in reality
3. AlexBp West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL

   #3 10th March 2009, 03:31

   as said on the standard cam theres no point in upgrading the inlet system
   some boosted applications use itb setup to create better flow to allow the pressurised air in better but most guys will say a single large tb is better with boost
   i would save the 2grand (as youll need stamdalone not a remap) and put it towards the turbo kit
4. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

   #4 10th March 2009, 07:04

   you should forget about the turbo and head down the throttle bodies route.
5. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

   #5 10th March 2009, 07:31

   I agree that for the money its not worth it guys, but Ive read many threads on Sandy work (standard heads running bodies/stand alone) and have been pretty impressed with results.
   
   Both torque figures and bhp figures at around the 140bhp+ mark on the 16vs. Pretty sure he did an XSi and it was running over 120bhp. Cant be arsed to find the threads but I was plenty impressed.
6. pjm300 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2005 Potters Bar United Kingdom (England) Posts: 2749 T/B'd VTS

   #6 10th March 2009, 08:31

   there is the opportunity for increases, but they will be minimal, as you said an extra 20bhp for 1.5k isnt really worth it.
   
   by all means get them if you're going down a high spec n/a route, but if you're going turbo, then you wont need them anyway
7. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #7 10th March 2009, 10:54

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by rushy_23 I agree that for the money its not worth it guys, but Ive read many threads on Sandy work (standard heads running bodies/stand alone) and have been pretty impressed with results. Both torque figures and bhp figures at around the 140bhp+ mark on the 16vs. Pretty sure he did an XSi and it was running over 120bhp. Cant be arsed to find the threads but I was plenty impressed.

   
   and for the cost involved you can stick in a set of cams and have 150+....
   
   so whats more economical?
8. MaRiO89 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS

   #8 10th March 2009, 20:37

   I've been thinking about this for my VTR..
   
   Just for the noise..
9. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #9 10th March 2009, 20:40

   except james you wont be getting the noise at 8k
10. de4n0 Established Member Joined: Nov 2008 nottingham Posts: 1250 2003 citroen saxo vts.

    #10 10th March 2009, 20:42

    save money and get an s engine.
11. MaRiO89 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS

    #11 10th March 2009, 22:39

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan except james you wont be getting the noise at 8k

    True..
    
    Remove the rev limiter though init bruv..
12. sean9091 Newbie Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 1

    #12 10th March 2009, 22:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MaRiO89 True.. Remove the rev limiter though init bruv..

    how can the rev limiter be removed?????
13. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

    #13 10th March 2009, 22:53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sean9091 how can the rev limiter be removed?????

    ECU remap sean
14. mikey362vtr Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Sheffield Posts: 316 R - reg Saxo VTR G - reg Mini Mayfair

    #14 10th March 2009, 23:03

    so basically what were sayin is just wait and get a turbo right lol. so lets talk cams what would i be looking at to get abit more power?
15. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #15 11th March 2009, 08:35

    Yes its expensive, but I truly think it is worth fitting a throttlebodies to a standard engine. On my engine I gained 20bhp, but the real gain was with the torque. There was a massive increase in the midrange and when compared to the same car with a standard inlet engine of similar power it was ballistic.
    bonus is you get a lot of noise too which is truly awesome.
    
    Yes it allows you to fit a lairy cam, but I wouldnt hold back until I had a set of cams.
    You may not get the same bhp as a turbo but you will have as much fun.
    
    Kev
16. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #16 11th March 2009, 21:30

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan and for the cost involved you can stick in a set of cams and have 150+.... so whats more economical?

    I wasnt comparing prices I was merely saying that its been proven that good gains can be had of a standard head.
    
    If it were me Id rather get stand alone and enclosed bodies over a standard cammed engine. Reason for that improvements in throttle response/noise/sexy bay as well as the obvious improvements in power/torque. Thats me, everyone is different.
17. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #17 11th March 2009, 21:47

    not all about peak power geeezas.
    
    if you look at a RR graph of car with tb's and one without (both standalone ecu)
    there wont be a massive difference in peak power but i gurantee there will be a nice healthy chunk more power between peak torque and peak power.
18. mikey362vtr Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Sheffield Posts: 316 R - reg Saxo VTR G - reg Mini Mayfair

    #18 11th March 2009, 22:20

    so it comes down to is if i go for throttle bodies ill end up with heap loads of torque... which will get me of the line faster? right
19. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #19 11th March 2009, 22:52

    well not as much torque as a turbo but yes you will see significant gains in the midrange over normal induction.
20. AlexBp West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL

    #20 11th March 2009, 23:41

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mikey362vtr so basically what were sayin is just wait and get a turbo right lol. so lets talk cams what would i be looking at to get abit more power?

    cams depend if you go boost or not
    boosted cars dont respond well to wild profiles like n/a cars