Close ratio Gearbox

2nd April 2009, 10:05

I would like to put a close ratio box on my saxo. Just put a vtr engine in.
Wondering what is the best way to go.
heard about 1.3 rallye box?
cheers

2nd April 2009, 10:09

xsi box

plus have a little search you'll find what you need

2nd April 2009, 10:15

do uno how expensive these can be?

2nd April 2009, 10:16

id personally go for the vts box.

shorter ratios than the r box and alot easier to get hold of

wouldnt go for an s1 box tho, i friend had one on his vtr it didnt drive that well tbh

2nd April 2009, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by FurioSamm

do uno how expensive these can be?

donno realy ranges from how many miles if its be recomditioned or not etc....
maybe have a ring round a few scrappies and see if they have any xsi's in there

2nd April 2009, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by swindonalex

id personally go for the vts box.

shorter ratios than the r box and alot easier to get hold of

wouldnt go for an s1 box tho, i friend had one on his vtr it didnt drive that well tbh

was this a rallye box? as your looking at about 90 top speed due to the ratio's iirc

2nd April 2009, 10:30

106 rallye box is no closer ratio than a Saxo VTS, 106 XSI, 106 GTI, AX GTI. They all use the same gear cluster. Only way you can get a closer ratio box is get a close ratio gear kit and they are not cheap (£1000+)

2nd April 2009, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXracing

106 rallye box is no closer ratio than a Saxo VTS, 106 XSI, 106 GTI, AX GTI. They all use the same gear cluster. Only way you can get a closer ratio box is get a close ratio gear kit and they are not cheap (£1000+)

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=125615

2nd April 2009, 10:37

My apologies i wasnt looking at the ratio i was looking at the final drive my bad

2nd April 2009, 10:45

The gear ratios and the final drive, together, make up the absolute final drive. This absolute final drive is basically a torque multiplier. Think about the 107 lb/ft the VTS lump has. You could almost generate that amount of torque with your own arms. So how does the car pull away so fast? Because of the torque multiplier 1st gear gives...

Let's say for arguments sake that 1st gear has a ratio of 3:1 and the final drive of the gearbox is 4. First gear would give an absolute final drive of 12. Multiply that by the 107 lb /ft of the VTS lump and you get 1284! Now the car will shift!

2nd April 2009, 12:34

alryt so in a nutshell the gear box i want is a . . .

2nd April 2009, 12:34

baring in mind id be happy to max out at 95 -100

2nd April 2009, 12:41

a close ratio box s a few grand
you want a shorter ratio box

if your happy to top out just over hundred s1 rallye box

but you may be droppin out of the power if you do much engine tuning as how short the final drive is

2nd April 2009, 13:19

just put a vts box in mate

2nd April 2009, 20:21

an xsi box would be your best bet mate, as the s1 rallye box is getting hard to come by now, and if you find one they arent cheap even when they need a refurb, but there is an xsi box and rallye box on rallye reg now and the rallye box is 200quid and xsi box is 70quid, so that says it all lol

but if you have the s1 box your car will be screaming, but will be a lot quicker, i have the 1.4 xsi box on mine and that was a great upgrade, still screams a bit when going say 60mph in 5th im doing like 3500rpm lol where as on the vtr box or furio box, as they are same you would be doing around 2500 rpm in 5th doing 60mph

2nd April 2009, 20:25

go for an xsi box its cheaper and personally i think its one of the best MA gearboxs

2nd April 2009, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex-VTS

but you may be droppin out of the power if you do much engine tuning as how short the final drive is

rev drops between gears wont be effected by the final drive, its the actual cluster that does this.

2nd April 2009, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj_99

was this a rallye box? as your looking at about 90 top speed due to the ratio's iirc

Just over 120mph (122 IIRC) with a 7200 limit, so about 105/110 with a 6200 limit,and about 3k in 5th at 30mph.

3rd April 2009, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

Just over 120mph (122 IIRC) with a 7200 limit, so about 105/110 with a 6200 limit,and about 3k in 5th at 30mph.

yer that sounds about right, as i accidentally hit top speed in the vtr with a 1.4 xsi box and hit 115mph and that was with the 6200 limiter, and that box is the next one up from the rallye so about 105/110 sounds about right, except in 5th at 3k i am usually doing 60mph just under

3rd April 2009, 15:32

Good friend of mine had an S1 Rallye with S2 engine and S1 box. Was fucking good fun, but kinda impractical with the fact that it screamed everywhere. Was interesting pulling all the way to bwap bwap bwap, right let off, lol. Got there fooking quick too.

3rd April 2009, 15:37

Most people also forget that, even though the top speed is limited which they dont care about MPG is effected badly lol.

I need to see how much a 1.4xsi box is in each gear with 8.5K rev limit before I rip the diff out of my s2 box lol

3rd April 2009, 15:42

I followed someone in a vtr with an xsi box the other day in my gti with a gti/vts box, they pulled away a lil to start but that was all really, wouldnt be a huge upgrade if any for me, but on a vtr it was a definate upgrade was Chris' being driven by lee

3rd April 2009, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bickerton

I followed someone in a vtr with an xsi box the other day in my gti with a gti/vts box, they pulled away a lil to start but that was all really, wouldnt be a huge upgrade if any for me, but on a vtr it was a definate upgrade was Chris' being driven by lee

The change from a vts to an xsi box is actually quite significant. The performance in theory should be quite a respectable increase in each gear.

Thats why im ditching my s2 box, although a main reasin for that is that the theoretical top end of 160+ isnt any use to me.

3rd April 2009, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

The change from a vts to an xsi box is actually quite significant. The performance in theory should be quite a respectable increase in each gear.

Thats why im ditching my s2 box, although a main reasin for that is that the theoretical top end of 160+ isnt any use to me.

What mph would it bottom out at then?

3rd April 2009, 16:11

with a 1.4xsi FD and my rev limit iirc its around 140/5. Ive not checked recently.

A normal 7250 limit will obviously drop this notably further, but I have been in a standard vts with a better final drive and it was notably better in gear

3rd April 2009, 16:20

Much difference between the 1.4 and the 1.6 boxes? may check a few scrappies out

3rd April 2009, 16:35

Same gear cluster. Massive change in the FD

Tis why everyone has been hunting for xsi boxes.

3rd April 2009, 16:36

FD?
Scrappy selling one with 120 day gurantee for £160

3rd April 2009, 16:42

Final drive.
All sports boxes use the same gear cluster with a differing final drive, so rev drops between gears are the same but the in gear perofmrance is altered

On forums you can pick up the odd 1.4xsi box between £80-120

3rd April 2009, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

On forums you can pick up the odd 1.4xsi box between £80-120

Shall put it on my to-do list that seems to have no end

(fucking CSA !!!!)

3rd April 2009, 16:46

Its obviously not a be all and end all, but altering the gearbox or final drive imo is more important than alot of mods people do.

When you think the gearbox effects the way the engine performs on the road in real terms, for £100 if you fit it yourself imo the gains will be more significant than an induction kit for example

3rd April 2009, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Its obviously not a be all and end all, but altering the gearbox or final drive imo is more important than alot of mods people do.

When you think the gearbox effects the way the engine performs on the road in real terms, for £100 if you fit it yourself imo the gains will be more significant than an induction kit for example

What you reckon it would knock off a 0-100 time for example?

3rd April 2009, 16:53

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Peugeot-106-5-...3A1|240%3A1318 gogogo? (not me i can't repair second gear)

3rd April 2009, 17:02

you need a box with a xsi code.

As any 1.4 box isnt an xsi one.

Listed on 106OC is the 1.4xsi codes
CA23
CA58
CBJ3
CB93
CBF8
CB15
CB57
CB68
CB93
CC33
CC53
CDE1
CD13
CD51

3rd April 2009, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

you need a box with a xsi code.

As any 1.4 box isnt an xsi one.

Listed on 106OC is the 1.4xsi codes
CA23
CA58
CBJ3
CB93
CBF8
CB15
CB57
CB68
CB93
CC33
CC53
CDE1
CD13
CD51

Means nothing to me sorry, i assume one of them codes will be stamped on the box or something?

3rd April 2009, 17:06

Yep stamped on the box is the code. Lots of xsis are old now, so often dont have 1.4 boxes anymore, people blow them up and are cheap and get the superior 1.1 box (as the ridiculous rumour goes) and so there are not so many about now.

Just because its off an xsi doesnt mean its a 1.4xsi box.

3rd April 2009, 17:25

@ryan

is the short ratio gearbox going to help you much, with like 190bhp, it would be all over in a flash and constantly changing gears?

maybe im just not looking at it the right way

3rd April 2009, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_X

@ryan

is the short ratio gearbox going to help you much, with like 190bhp, it would be all over in a flash and constantly changing gears?

maybe im just not looking at it the right way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpZefXD-U9s
Different car but blatantly a short ratio box

Dies vs em on the straights but look at the corners man

3rd April 2009, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bickerton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpZefXD-U9s
Different car but blatantly a short ratio box

Dies vs em on the straights but look at the corners man

thats crazy!!!

surely you can have too shorter ratio?

man, i want one

3rd April 2009, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_X

@ryan

is the short ratio gearbox going to help you much, with like 190bhp, it would be all over in a flash and constantly changing gears?

maybe im just not looking at it the right way

its the same cluster which isnt the best, which is why im not chucking wilder cams in and going for 210-220bhp

Its to peaky then.

The 1.6box I have atm give me

over 60 in second, over 100 in 3rd, 130 in 4th and a potential 160 in 5th.

so theres no changing gear all the time there lol!!!

1.4box should give me alot better in gear performance (destroy JC even easyer

) not be changing gear to often and thus make the most out of my engine without spending 1-2k on a gear cluster or 5K+ on a sadev

3rd April 2009, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_X

thats crazy!!!

surely you can have too shorter ratio?

man, i want one

Depends on the track i guess ?

Realistically top speed isnt an issue day to day, pulling off and on roundabouts etc is where it's at

3rd April 2009, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_X

surely you can have too shorter ratio?

Yes, which is why ive not bought a 106 cup box or a sadev 5 speed sequential.

both see me doing 90-110 at 8.5k depending on the gear cluster.

3rd April 2009, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

its the same cluster which isnt the best, which is why im not chucking wilder cams in and going for 210-220bhp

Its to peaky then.

The 1.6box I have atm give me

over 60 in second, over 100 in 3rd, 130 in 4th and a potential 160 in 5th.

so theres no changing gear all the time there lol!!!

1.4box should give me alot better in gear performance (destroy JC even easyer

) not be changing gear to often and thus make the most out of my engine without spending 1-2k on a gear cluster or 5K+ on a sadev

What 1.6 box is that? cant be the vtr . lololololol
should def go for the wilder cams, what cams have you got atm?
220bhp n/a would be something special

EDIT: i guess vts box with v.high limiter, sure mine cant do 130 in forth even at 75000rpm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bickerton

Depends on the track i guess ?

Realistically top speed isnt an issue day to day, pulling off and on roundabouts etc is where it's at

this is true

3rd April 2009, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_X

EDIT: i guess vts box with v.high limiter, sure mine cant do 130 in forth even at 75000rpm

My standard gti did 120 @ 6k revs as standard accidentally once

3rd April 2009, 17:44

I have a s2 rallye box with 8.5K limit.

And chucking wilder cams as I said is not a good idea as the MA cluster is shit for a peaky engine. The rev drops between gears will effectively drop me out of a power band, so bigger bragging rights can mean a slower car

She is running catcams 803s.

3rd April 2009, 18:14

and incase someone says it wont do 130 in 4th.

Was run in 4th gear making 131.9 without even going to 8.5

3rd April 2009, 18:18

Your car won't do 130 in 4th!

3rd April 2009, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bickerton

Your car won't do 130 in 4th!

3rd April 2009, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

I do beg to differ!
This is ghey

3rd April 2009, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bickerton

I do beg to differ!
This is ghey

I like his trousers.

3rd April 2009, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

I like his trousers.

would be better with none on at all.....

3rd April 2009, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_X

would be better with none on at all.....

thats just going to far

3rd April 2009, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

thats just going to far

just remembered this. not really to do with anything random.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCedVqOucMM

lol