Cylinder walls

1. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

   #1 5th April 2009, 16:09

   right im rebuilding my vts engine again. took the pistons out the other day and packed up for the day.
   
   after inspecting the cylinder walls the are really shinny and smooth....
   
   should i be thinking about getting them honed?
   and how much would i be looking at?
   
   
   never come across this problem before
2. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

   #2 5th April 2009, 16:10

   small local machine shop should do it really cheap, but i wouldnt bother ?
3. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

   #3 5th April 2009, 16:11

   well if i dont there would be a chance of a leak on the piston rings wouldnt there?
4. R555GED L-plater Joined: Feb 2008 Co. Armagh Posts: 35 Saxo VTS

   #4 5th April 2009, 16:12

   Get some pics up! hard to say!
5. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

   #5 5th April 2009, 16:13

   i have pics on my phone but they are shit. what do you need pics for anyways.??
6. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

   #6 5th April 2009, 16:14

   depends really,pics would help lol
7. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

   #7 5th April 2009, 16:15

   quality is crap but surely you can take my word for it being smooth and shinny? then if you know your stuff be able to give advise
8. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #8 5th April 2009, 16:25

   Take it to an engineering company, Id suggest it might be worth honing them. However they might say it looks normal to them.
   
   pics cant say it all tbh.
9. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

   #9 5th April 2009, 16:30

   the reason for the rebuild was i popped the piston rings and whilst the engine is apart it was worth a rebuild.
   
   
   just made me think maybe the rings are ok and it was the cylinder walls which were causing the issue.
   
   
   what should the cylinder walls feel and be like on a perfect bottom end
10. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #10 5th April 2009, 16:39

    get a honer for your drill, its easy enough to do yourself.
    
    i'll post a pic of when i done my LET engine.
11. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #11 5th April 2009, 16:40

    i wouldnt trust myself honing it with a drill, id at least want to do it on a pillar drill / drill press, ide want it done precisly
12. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #12 5th April 2009, 16:41

    mine were like this
    
    
    then used this
    
    
    
    to get them like this
    
    
    
    easy
13. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #13 5th April 2009, 16:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by VTEC-Saxo i wouldnt trust myself honing it with a drill, id at least want to do it on a pillar drill / drill press, ide want it done precisly

    your hardly taking anything off when you hone it though, gotta go mad with it to fuck the bores.
14. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #14 5th April 2009, 16:42

    as long as i hold the drill square i should be alright although the honer will hold its shape in the cylinder.
    
    have you got a method to doing it that you would like to share?
15. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #15 5th April 2009, 16:45

    dont have the drill on to high a speed and dont go up and down too fast.
    just a low speed and a steady up and down movement. keep stoppong to check thougyh, done just go for 10 minutes without checking it. stop once you have a spiral/criss-cross sort of finish.
    you dont wanna remove much material, just 'rough' it up a little to help the new rings wear in.
16. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #16 5th April 2009, 16:47

    how long roughly would i spend on each cylinder?
17. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #17 5th April 2009, 16:49

    looks pretty good that! might have saved a few pennys for when i get my 16v engine thread hijack, but does anyone know what is involved in boring a engine out "plus 5" my next door neighbor says its what i want to do when i get a 16v block, wont i need like larger pistons etc :| ???
18. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #18 5th April 2009, 16:51

    yeah you'll need larger pistons, does he actually know what he's on about or has he just heard someone talking? lol, and plus 5 what? elephants?
    
    tom - making 5 strokes at a time and keep checking on the surface finish, you want to remove as little as possible. if you have a bore micrometer use that to check the before and after diameters of it to make sure your all ok.

    1 user thanked this post: user_24886
19. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #19 5th April 2009, 16:54

    hes like 60 used to work for rolls Royce as a engineer sounds like hes talking shit most the time tbh he wanted me to stick with my 1.4 rebuild it and bore it out huge rather not bore it out tbh lmao at "plus 5 " thats all he said means nothing to me
20. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #20 5th April 2009, 16:56

    ok gotcha cheers. if i very lightly do it can i get away with my original pistons?
21. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #21 5th April 2009, 16:58

    williamsvts, where did you get your tool and does this look any good ?
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Engine-cylinde...1%7C240%3A1318
22. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #22 5th April 2009, 16:58

    yea, they haynes might have the piston clearances in?? but there will be a figure of the amount of clearance between piston and cylinder. measure pistons and cylinders when your done and check that its within the stated tolerances. if it hasnt been done before and you done have any bad scores you are trying to get out then you will 99% likely to be ok to hone it.
23. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #23 5th April 2009, 16:58

    vtec - TU5J4 bore walls are thin, you really dont want to be going mad on an over bore.
    
    You will need larger pistons if you do anyway
24. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #24 5th April 2009, 16:59

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by VTEC-Saxo williamsvts, where did you get your tool and does this look any good ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Engine-cylinde...1%7C240%3A1318

    i lent mine from my mates garage. that looks like the same thing i had.
25. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #25 5th April 2009, 16:59

    that is the same one i have for my kart engines
26. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #26 5th April 2009, 17:00

    aslong as it opens up enough for your vts bores then you'll be fine to use that.
27. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #27 5th April 2009, 17:02

    might do it this evening now. i only want to lightly rough them up
28. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #28 5th April 2009, 17:03

    dont go too slow either though, you dont just want to put rings on your walls, you want an up and down spiral, but you'll get the hang of it quick enough.
29. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #29 5th April 2009, 17:08

    well ive done my kart engines, and i have 2 spare bottom ends sooo i can have abit of practice first
30. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #30 5th April 2009, 17:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan vtec - TU5J4 bore walls are thin, you really dont want to be going mad on an over bore. You will need larger pistons if you do anyway

    is the tu5j4 the engine i have ?? or the vts engine ? i dont want to bore any engine tbh
31. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #31 5th April 2009, 17:12

    TU5J4 - saxo/gti engine
    TU5JP4 - c2/206 etc..
32. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #32 5th April 2009, 17:13

    ye ye thoguht so , as i want to build a j4 engine with a jp4 head with j4 internals
33. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #33 5th April 2009, 17:15

    I can sell you a J4 bottom end and head if you want to rape bits
34. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #34 5th April 2009, 17:16

    urm would help tbh lol wouldnt mind a full engine so i no what i need etc, whats the bottom end got with it ? and how much
35. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #35 5th April 2009, 17:17

    its a bottom end, it comes with pistons, crank and rods, like all bottom ends do
    
    that and a sump.
36. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #36 5th April 2009, 17:20

    how much is that ryan
37. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #37 5th April 2009, 17:20

    lol dont take the piss, thats all good then any major damage etc ? what price you got in mind
38. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #38 5th April 2009, 17:21

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by VTEC-Saxo lol dont take the piss, thats all good then any major damage etc ? what price you got in mind

    Bottom end doesnt have damage, its my spare engine i had until i bought the better spec one with the forgies/rods/solid lifters etc etc...
    
    £200 no offers for head and bottom end.
39. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #39 5th April 2009, 17:22

    what sort of milage it got on ?
40. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #40 5th April 2009, 17:24

    circa 60k. Head had new valves/stem seals iirc not long before I bought it, and ive only run the engine not put road miles on it.
41. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #41 5th April 2009, 17:24

    does it matter if your rebuilding it? lol
42. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #42 5th April 2009, 17:27

    lol true XD
43. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #43 6th April 2009, 01:11

    hmm dm now ryan got a pure bargain on egay tonight!
44. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #44 6th April 2009, 01:14

    the JP4 engine that was on there?
45. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #45 6th April 2009, 01:16

    Edit not letting anyone no how cheap my new engine was XD
46. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #46 6th April 2009, 01:20

    Thats a fucking bargain tbh
    
    Markets shit atm. might have the head off mine put into storage lol
47. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #47 6th April 2009, 01:24

    yeah to say ther was others going for around 200 - 300+ looks tatty rocker covers been painted shit lol
48. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #48 6th April 2009, 01:27

    lol @ edit.
    
    I know
49. Tontsy Saxperience Addict Joined: Oct 2008 Plymouth, Fiddling - under a two poster ramp Posts: 14064 Audi

    #49 6th April 2009, 01:29

    honed, i do it to all my engines when i rebuild ... just to be safe of any shite there too! ... lookin 60-80 quid.
    ... if its not needing to be done then it wont do anyharm if you do have it honed! better safe than sorry.
50. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #50 6th April 2009, 01:33

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan lol @ edit. I know

    saves a lot of pennies to commit to the jp4 head setup iv got my heart on for some reason lol, id budgeted around £300 - 400 for a engine and box gonna cost me £68 to get it delivered but that's nothing for a 300 mile trip
51. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #51 6th April 2009, 01:35

    id personally just use a J4 head unless going wilder on the cams etc...
52. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #52 6th April 2009, 01:36

    Hmm maybe so been looking for one of these heads, cant find one anyware might stick the the j4 hmmm
53. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #53 6th April 2009, 01:42

    Some companies seem to prefer working on J4 heads rather than jp4 for headwork from when I was going to get work done.
54. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #54 6th April 2009, 06:54

    i know how much vtecs engine cost nananana
55. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #55 6th April 2009, 09:20

    haha XD alright guys, just getting a partslist for it, on eurocarparts can somone help me out, i typed in the car ( mk1 vts ) and it says this
    
    Make: Citroen Year: 1999
    Model: Saxo Mk1 1.6 16v VTS : TU5JP4
    
    Well that isnt the right engine is it so i cant order parts
56. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #56 6th April 2009, 19:39

    i just ordered a head gasket from them tu5jp4 6 or 7 hole gasket. i was assured its just lazy bastards who made there system.
    mines a 97 tu5jp i believe
    
    pick it up tomorrow so will let you know
57. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #57 6th April 2009, 19:41

    got any other sites for engine parts etc that are better eg sell piston rings and so on, citroen want £35
58. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #58 6th April 2009, 19:43

    my piston rings came from ebay. 60 a full set. unlike citroens £140 a set
59. user_24886 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2008 Notts Posts: 6227 White pug 106 1.6

    #59 6th April 2009, 19:45

    illl have a look lol yeah, i rang up and they said £35 X 4 rather not lol
60. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #60 6th April 2009, 19:49

    that 35quid is for the 3 rings on one piston