will a manifold add bhp??

14th April 2009, 15:06

if i was to just buy a manifold from just say cituning would it add anything at all.???

14th April 2009, 15:08

Aye it would, but where the power goes depends on which one you get. 4-2-1 gives good midrange, 4-1 is more for high end power

14th April 2009, 15:12

well mid range would add more if a kick??
and high end is top speed right?
lookin for more accel

14th April 2009, 15:13

Get a 4-2-1 then.

And stop making so many threads, just add to one

14th April 2009, 15:16

You wont get a kick from any mod other than lairy cams or boost dude.

It depends on how you drive. If your in the top end of the range a lot when your giving it some then the 4-1s a better choice, EG on a track or in backroads.

If you just want better straight line speed then a 4-2-1 is probably better as youll get a more balanced power distribution. Thats my views on them though others may think differently

14th April 2009, 15:19

well back roads,no tracks for me yet!!

4-2-1 it is then

14th April 2009, 15:21

Have a look at Kam Racing mate

They have a great selection for the saxo

14th April 2009, 15:24

yeah its a good site!!
jus dont know what i wanna do with the car atm!!
whether its remap/cams/turbo etc

14th April 2009, 15:24

Also mate, have you thought about heat wrapping you manifold?

And you should first do breathing mods - Induction kit, manifold, catback exhaust, decat, etc

Then cams and a remap

then even further would be Throttle bodies, or turbo or superhcarger.

Hope i cam helping.

14th April 2009, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

yeah its a good site!!
jus dont know what i wanna do with the car atm!!
whether its remap/cams/turbo etc

you might want to decide what sort of path you go down before buying parts otherwise its abit of a waste of money imo

14th April 2009, 15:26

what exactly is that?

14th April 2009, 15:27

what? heat wrap?

14th April 2009, 15:28

Heat wrap is like material, that you wrap around the manifold, and helps keep the heat in which lets the gases flow faster, also it helps keep the heat off the manifold from going into the engine bay.

14th April 2009, 15:30

Its not uncommon for it to crack cheap stainless steel manifolds though, and you need to paint mild steel ones with heatproof paint first before using wrap or moisture gets caught inside it and it rusts

14th April 2009, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

Heat wrap is like material, that you wrap around the manifold, and helps keep the heat in which lets the gases flow faster, also it helps keep the heat off the manifold from going into the engine bay.

i guessed it was something like that!!
looking at the cams now,ive a westcoast these the right ones? eg would work if i got remap?

http://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufactu...-top-1122.html

14th April 2009, 15:32

So basically mate i would reccomend you get a...

Stainless stell 4-2-1 manifold. And if you want a bit extra hear wrap it.

The superpsrint or piper off Kam Racing are ideal

14th April 2009, 15:50

sounds like a plan

14th April 2009, 15:51

I wouldnt get those personaly id get newman ph2's there not to harsh i dont see the point in getting ph3's for a westcoast/furio personally

14th April 2009, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj_99

I wouldnt get those personaly id get newman ph2's there not to harsh i dont see the point in getting ph3's for a westcoast/furio personally

I wouldnt see the point in the PH2s being honest, gains arnt that large, if hes going down the cams and remap route them PH3s are the way to go.

But them again i think he should just wait and buy a VTS.

14th April 2009, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

I wouldnt see the point in the PH2s being honest, gains arnt that large, if hes going down the cams and remap route them PH3s are the way to go.

But them again i think he should just wait and buy a VTS.

I know what your saying but it isnt going to be much fun as a daily driver i wouldnt have thought well espically not in 1.4 8v when your probably only going to get about the same or maybe a little more than a lightly modified vtr. And as you said id just wait and buy vts

14th April 2009, 16:25

contacted my insurer,vts is a no go at the moment due to the price!!

14th April 2009, 16:26

How long until you can get one mate?

14th April 2009, 16:30

prob another year.only drivin 1 year now

14th April 2009, 16:31

How old are you 17? probably looking at a minimum of 19 then

14th April 2009, 16:32

Ive had to wait nearly 3 years before a VTS lump was realistically and sensibly affordable mate, unfortunately youll have to do the same unless you pay crazy monays

14th April 2009, 16:32

Would just get a induction kit and exhaust in that case, maybe a few cheap exterior mods, mesh the grill, de badge, short airiel.

Just cheap mods, that will get it looking a bit better.

And just save for your VTS

14th April 2009, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Ive had to wait nearly 3 years before a VTS lump was realistically and sensibly affordable mate, unfortunately youll have to do the same unless you pay crazy monays

like the kid who says he pays £6000 a year to insure his, what a joker

14th April 2009, 16:41

Could always strip your car out mate, easiest and cheapest way to more speed

14th April 2009, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

yeah its a good site!!
jus dont know what i wanna do with the car atm!!
whether its remap/cams/turbo etc

Well it depends one what route you want to take. If you want to go turbo then you will want different cams to a ITB setup's cam. It could be a lot of wasted money if u go for a cam and remap suited for throttle bodies, when your gonna be taking the turbo route instead.

Breathings mods etc first, as you can easily sell them on n not lose too much.

Then think about what route your gonna take.

If its turbo then buy your cam n fit them, a remap wont be too essential for a cam for a turbo.

If its throttle bodies then save up n dump the whole lot in one go, or youll be wasting money on a remap when youll be getting standalone and a map put onto that too.

on the 8valve saxos on standard cam the 4,2,1 would be best. On a vts or cammed vtr then 4,1 is better choice.

14th April 2009, 21:31

for a road car you want a spread of power across the rev range. Even on a vts you will want mods that do this rather than push everything higher up.
A 4-2-1 is perfect for this.

15th April 2009, 00:13

im nearly 21 believe it or not,insurance is a joke here in ireland!!
well im doing small mods at the moment,only performance done atm is a vts induction kit.
so if i get the turbo done i wont need a remap?
cams are a must i know,ect

15th April 2009, 00:20

a vts induction kit shouldnt fit too well on anything other than a vts.
turbo will need full management and a remap £500-£1000.plus £1500-£4500 for turbo and gubbins.
if you cam now and turbo later,cams will have to come out.

15th April 2009, 00:23

so i may aswell wait and save for a while!!
well the induction kit fits fine from my observation

15th April 2009, 00:32

yes it does fit.but as the induction kit was designed for the vts and not the 1.4,it may not be a perfect fit.but does the job.
best to wait.do your homework save up a bit,get a few years ncb behind you.

15th April 2009, 00:37

surely a turbo conversion on a 1.4 will cost mroe to insure than a vts?
i was going to do some engine mods on my vtr but have gone off the idea, if im going to mod my saxo i want to start off with the best engine possible in the first place

15th April 2009, 00:39

probably would be more than a standard vts.
but in saying that my insurance doubles with mods declared !

15th April 2009, 00:41

yeah,like i said before vts isnt in the budget at the moment!
think ill get a price for turbo and analyse it against buying the vts and see whats the best option!!
i just want my car to be more powerful and hav an extra kick to it.
sick of seeing glanzas passin by

15th April 2009, 00:41

I'm becoming increasingly doubtful about the performance benefits of a 'uprated' manifold... weigh saving however is huge though!

15th April 2009, 00:45

well starlets/glanza are 1.3 or 1.4 turbo.so if you turbo your own motor,will nothin in it.but you will have spent twice as much on your car as what the glanza driver has on theirs !

15th April 2009, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinga

well starlets/glanza are 1.3 or 1.4 turbo.so if you turbo your own motor,will nothin in it.but you will have spent twice as much on your car as what the glanza driver has on theirs !

will nothin in it??

15th April 2009, 00:53

Glanzas are 1.3 turbo mate, just so yano

15th April 2009, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

I'm becoming increasingly doubtful about the performance benefits of a 'uprated' manifold... weigh saving however is huge though!

no scientific evidence to show,but i thought my mani was one of my best buys.revs pick up,and climb much faster than before.

15th April 2009, 00:54

I'm always under the impression that a manifold is a waste of money for a single plug ECU's Saxo.

I might be wrong.

15th April 2009, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mieran

I'm always under the impression that a manifold is a waste of money for a single plug ECU's Saxo.

I might be wrong.

I have never heard this before

15th April 2009, 01:01

oh yeah i know their 1.3 turbos!!
what does single plug mean?

15th April 2009, 01:02

I only said for the single plug ECU is because they have the CAT under the car and not in the manifold its self.

If you got the CAT in your manifold then an aftermarket one will decat your car so therefore more pawaaahhhhhh

15th April 2009, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

oh yeah i know their 1.3 turbos!!
what does single plug mean?

Older Saxos had a single plug ECU and new versions have a 3 plug ECU

15th April 2009, 01:06

Doesnt matter where the cat is, its nothing to do with that. Its the way the pipes meet, example 4-2-1 or 4-1.

It provides better flow, which means you can get the gases out faster which means more fuel can be burnt whihc = more BHP

Standard saxo manifold are 4-1 i think but there not very good, aftermarket ones are much better

15th April 2009, 01:08

yes cause with the cat in mani your de-catting at the same time.

15th April 2009, 01:08

I know about the flowing of exhaust gases etc but I still think it wont make much of a difference so its not that important to upgrade it.

15th April 2009, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mieran

I only said for the single plug ECU is because they have the CAT under the car and not in the manifold its self.

If you got the CAT in your manifold then an aftermarket one will decat your car so therefore more pawaaahhhhhh

lol pawaaahhhhh!!
so new manifold and de cat advised ?
what kinda bhp does this add,roughly. lets say in a 00 westcoast

15th April 2009, 01:12

i thought the mani was a great upgrade,on a vts that is and it has the mani underneath.

15th April 2009, 01:14

I wouldn't advice you to get a manifold or decat for a 1.4, its like polishing a turd (no offense)

15th April 2009, 01:14

passing mot/nct can be an issue if no cat is fitted !
bhp gains on 1.4 with mani/decat not sure at all il guess 5bhp

15th April 2009, 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mieran

I wouldn't advice you to get a manifold or decat for a 1.4, its like polishing a turd (no offense)

ooh that is rude !
but funny as i havnt heard that phrase in a long long time.

15th April 2009, 01:28

lame!!
i really thought it would add more bhp!!
if i wanted to add jus say 30 bhp,what do i need to do?
please dont answer too technical

15th April 2009, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

lame!!
i really thought it would add more bhp!!
if i wanted to add jus say 30 bhp,what do i need to do?
please dont answer too technical

Breathing mods and a mild cam and remap.

And a manifold will typically gain you between 4 and 8bhp

15th April 2009, 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

if i wanted to add jus say 30 bhp,what do i need to do?

What car is this for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

a manifold will typically gain you between 4 and 8bhp

Horse power is not that easy to gain

15th April 2009, 01:40

and if i add this,is there anything else i can add??
other than a turbo

15th April 2009, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mieran

What car is this for?

Horse power is not that easy to gain

Most manifolds will typically gain you that though, 6bhp ish isnt a big gain when you consider most manifolds are £250+

4-8bhp is perfectly achievable from a manifold. You can have your own opinion, but thats mine.

15th April 2009, 01:53

Wheres Ryan when you need him!?

Hes probably sick of answering the same question 629 times a day

15th April 2009, 01:58

you might be lucky and get 6bhp out of a manifold and de-cat on a vts 120bhp.5%
but on a 1.4 is it 75bhp? cant see getting much more than 3bhp.

15th April 2009, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinga

you might be lucky and get 6bhp out of a manifold and de-cat on a vts 120bhp.5%
but on a 1.4 is it 75bhp? cant see getting much more than 3bhp.

I can confidently say that a good 4-2-1 and a decat on a VTS 8 times out of 10 will gain you at LEAST 5bhp.

15th April 2009, 02:23

Its not peak power that matters most though its where it is in the powerband

15th April 2009, 02:34

which means?

15th April 2009, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

which means?

means that an obsession with peak power figures does not always get you the best mod.

For example on my S2000 engine when I fit TBs it will add zero bhp to the peak power. A waste of money then?

Look down the RR graph and I'd gain 50bhp in the midrange..

Back to the 4-2-1 manifolds .. a well designed one will get you gains everywhere! On a standard engine it may be a small gain but as you continue tuning the difference will be greater.

16th April 2009, 05:14

hey guys

with my 1.4 furio i added a 4-2-1 mani straight through (waiting on cams now) although after i got all thease my car was slightly faster not so noticible when my friend and i went down a duel in a vtr (standard) and i was pulling away from him but not by much.

but after i striped out my car completely and we when down the duel again i was pulling away cosidarably. so i personaly think that striping a 1.4 8v is worth doing.

i know this is slightly off topic but does anyone know if a c2 vts engine would fit in the saxo engine bay?

16th April 2009, 14:58

They do fit mate yea, but its better to fit a C2 head to a Saxo bottom end and use all Saxo lump internals and ancillaries other than the valves and lifters

18th April 2009, 03:43

cheers buddy

do you know if it will fit straight on or will i need to
get hold of some other parts from the c2?