bodies on standard internals

16th April 2009, 21:00

hi all , i was thinking would it be ok if you to were running throttle bodies on standard pistons , rods?
thanks

16th April 2009, 21:15

why not?

just cant run wild cams.

16th April 2009, 21:19

im running newmans ph3s yer i was thinking of getting them just thats what was holding me back , who does full kits these days ?

16th April 2009, 21:20

not 100% but do kam racing? Spoox?

16th April 2009, 21:36

i think kam racing do them as thay are on there website but not sure if its a complete kit?

16th April 2009, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo_furio2000

im running newmans ph3s yer i was thinking of getting them just thats what was holding me back , who does full kits these days ?

GDI do a jenvey/omex kit.

The reason people need forged internals is
1. raised compression
2. Because the cams are so wild the valves would hit an OE piston at TDC
3. Rods only needed when revving sky high

16th April 2009, 21:42

ahh i see , so running newman ph3s are fine as they arent that wild. i will have to start saving

lol

16th April 2009, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo_furio2000

ahh i see , so running newman ph3s are fine as they arent that wild. i will have to start saving

lol

if the cam runs on standard inlet and pistons then you dont need to change the internals.

If you go for a big valve head and wilder cams then of course internals need changing.

16th April 2009, 23:03

GMC could probably do something fo you. Don't know whether they'd deliver though as your fairly far away.

17th April 2009, 20:54

If you want wild cams then just get the pistons machined for valve cut outs, and your con-rods shot peened and that should be plenty enough for N/A route tbh

17th April 2009, 20:59

I'm going to be running bodies with standard bottom end - am running them with Piper BP285's which are around 266degrees i think.

18th April 2009, 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

I'm going to be running bodies with standard bottom end - am running them with Piper BP285's which are around 266degrees i think.

Valve clearence alright with those then?

18th April 2009, 08:05

Plenty of people run these spec of cams (708's,ph3's etc) on standard internals fine. I'm just going to be running TB's which don't affect valve clearances.

18th April 2009, 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

I'm just going to be running TB's which don't affect valve clearances.

I know that silly i was on about the cams lol

18th April 2009, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty-VTR

I know that silly i was on about the cams lol

lol, no worries

the cams aren't 285 degrees - these iirc would need some piston work/valve cut outs to even get the engine turning over without contact.

18th April 2009, 12:03

ta raunchz ,what bodies are you going to be running?

18th April 2009, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

not 100% but do kam racing? Spoox?

we've got quite a few suppliers of TBs and complete kits.. Jenvey, Dastec, KMS ..

should get them on all the site perhaps

TBs are fine on standard engines. They do allow the fitting of wild cams but they benifit all engines

18th April 2009, 12:18

thats good to know , when i buy some i will be buying a full kit with everything included

i will come to you first kam for some prices ,

18th April 2009, 12:46

yes...

18th April 2009, 12:46

......

18th April 2009, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo_furio2000

ta raunchz ,what bodies are you going to be running?

I'll be running Colin Satchell inlet - jenvey dcoe's and then 60mm trumpets - although am keeping my eye out for 90mm trumpets.

Bought all the above in group buys so hasn't cost me near as much as it would have done.

18th April 2009, 13:10

is there any group buys on here at the moment or have been any ?

18th April 2009, 13:16

there was a group buy over on 106 rallye register - its well over now.

18th April 2009, 13:21

what am i looking at for a full kit maybe jenvey or kms ? around the 1k mark?

18th April 2009, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo_furio2000

what am i looking at for a full kit maybe jenvey or kms ? around the 1k mark?

Without mapping yeh

18th April 2009, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo_furio2000

what am i looking at for a full kit maybe jenvey or kms ? around the 1k mark?

for the full kit yes. then you have the cost of a standalone, and getting that mapped. or getting the standard ecu to run with throttle bodies. (before you all start argueing with me again yes it can be done. someone has mapped for saxos on bodies with the standard ecu)

so all in all i reckon you will be looking at £1600 to £2k mark or there abouts. i hope this helps

18th April 2009, 13:36

thanks gouldy , i was thinking im on the list for the predator soon so i can run the bodies on this in the future

18th April 2009, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo_furio2000

thanks gouldy , i was thinking im on the list for the predator soon so i can run the bodies on this in the future

everyone that had bought the predator seems more than happy with it and andy has been helping people out with the ecu after they have bought it. like playing with the map on the car from home etc... to help people get the best out of there cars. so for the price they seem like a good option if thats the route your wanting to go for

18th April 2009, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

everyone that had bought the predator seems more than happy with it and andy has been helping people out with the ecu after they have bought it. like playing with the map on the car from home etc... to help people get the best out of there cars. so for the price they seem like a good option if thats the route your wanting to go for

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

for the full kit yes. then you have the cost of a standalone, and getting that mapped. or getting the standard ecu to run with throttle bodies. (before you all start argueing with me again yes it can be done. someone has mapped for saxos on bodies with the standard ecu)

so all in all i reckon you will be looking at £1600 to £2k mark or there abouts. i hope this helps

yer that what i plan to do, as the predator can run iTB, i will be getting the predator on my ar with just cams and mapped then inthe future will be getting iTB once i have to money

18th April 2009, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXOK

yer that what i plan to do, as the predator can run iTB, i will be getting the predator on my ar with just cams and mapped then inthe future will be getting iTB once i have to money

it can be done runnning bodies on the standard ecu. its been done on at least 4 saxos now. but the saxo ecus are a few years old nowso the technology is a coulple of years out. if you buy a brand new ecu then its the latest software and ecu. thats one arguement i guess. it depends what your wanting really

18th April 2009, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

it can be done runnning bodies on the standard ecu. its been done on at least 4 saxos now. but the saxo ecus are a few years old nowso the technology is a coulple of years out. if you buy a brand new ecu then its the latest software and ecu. thats one arguement i guess. it depends what your wanting really

yer i understand that, but it would be easier to get a sandalone ecu which can be tweek abit more than a standard ecu,

i am looking forward to seeing what Andy can do with the predator on raunchz car see what that like and hopfully one day i will follow suit

18th April 2009, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXOK

yer i understand that, but it would be easier to get a sandalone ecu which can be tweek abit more than a standard ecu,

i am looking forward to seeing what Andy can do with the predator on raunchz car see what that like and hopfully one day i will follow suit

Hopefully not long now

!! Wired up the LC-1 wideband to a standard lambda plug the other day to make the wideband plug and play

keep your eyes open for updates in the next few weeks hopefully !!

18th April 2009, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Hopefully not long now

!! Wired up the LC-1 wideband to a standard lambda plug the other day to make the wideband plug and play

keep your eyes open for updates in the next few weeks hopefully !!

wide bands are very very very good for getting the best set up and getting the best map for your car. but apparantly once the car has been set up with a wide band you can then go back. your car will work just as well. the wide band makes no difference once the car has been mapped up. apparantly.

18th April 2009, 15:06

Still no point running bodies on an OE ecu...

the mapping costs alone far outweigh the gains of getting a standalone which can be adjusted by the user alot easyer.

Id like to see what has been done to run bodies seeing as the OE ecu reads from a MAP sensor which bodies dont use

18th April 2009, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Still no point running bodies on an OE ecu...

the mapping costs alone far outweigh the gains of getting a standalone which can be adjusted by the user alot easyer.

Id like to see what has been done to run bodies seeing as the OE ecu reads from a MAP sensor which bodies dont use

agreed matey

ideally go for standalone.

ryan- you bin off the MAP sensor when using OE ECU with bodies

19th April 2009, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Hopefully not long now

!! Wired up the LC-1 wideband to a standard lambda plug the other day to make the wideband plug and play

keep your eyes open for updates in the next few weeks hopefully !!

yer i am am getting wideband for mine, just order the kit of the bay,

yer there really no point in running throttle bodies on a standard ecu, it maybe possible but really is pointless.

andy

19th April 2009, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXOK

yer i am am getting wideband for mine, just order the kit of the bay,

yer there really no point in running throttle bodies on a standard ecu, it maybe possible but really is pointless.

andy

how come?

19th April 2009, 12:46

just dnt see why you would want to do that, look i didnt say you cant do it, and i dnt no that much but in my eyes i just dnt seen the point in using a standard ecu,

dnt want to start any arguements.

thanks

19th April 2009, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXOK

just dnt see why you would want to do that, look i didnt say you cant do it, and i dnt no that much but in my eyes i just dnt seen the point in using a standard ecu,

dnt want to start any arguements.

thanks

i suppose if your wanting to save money on the cost of installing a throttle bodie set up could be on reason?

19th April 2009, 13:30

who does this on the standard ecu? what there price just to see if what the price is for doing this

19th April 2009, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXOK

who does this on the standard ecu? what there price just to see if what the price is for doing this

£400 for it mapping iirc, im surprised i ant been met with a shit load of abuse on here yet tbh for even suggesting it.

chipwizards have done 4 of these now, bodies on OE management

19th April 2009, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

agreed matey

ideally go for standalone.

ryan- you bin off the MAP sensor when using OE ECU with bodies

You would have to else the ECU would go spacko, however still would like to know what is done to the ecu to stop it trying to read from it...

I still think standalone is a much much better option, theres no way id run an OE ecu thats been, adapted to run my engine thats for sure

19th April 2009, 14:59

If the map sensor has been disabled then clearly TPS is being used. Same principle as standalone.

If the technology is there then dont see why oe ecu could not be used with bodies.

Would be intrigued to see the difference in parameter adjustment compared to standlone though.

19th April 2009, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

I still think standalone is a much much better option, theres no way id run an OE ecu thats been, adapted to run my engine thats for sure

Surely something that works is a bonus for you right now lol

19th April 2009, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by daz_Westcoast

Surely something that works is a bonus for you right now lol

Ecu isnt the fault though, we have run a K3 aswell as an M3D its the loom

19th April 2009, 15:31

Are you using an adapted standard loom or a seperate version?

19th April 2009, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by daz_Westcoast

Are you using an adapted standard loom or a seperate version?

its a vtr engine loom with the emerald plug spliced in, its been adapted shall we say.

Hence were gonna go single plug on the whole car, make an adaptor loom for the emerald.

19th April 2009, 15:43

Yeah ditch the standard loom, im just using the standard loom for the bare essentials i.e alternator, starter motor basically anything which doesnt goes back to the OE ecu or main ignition relay.

Ive placed my K3 behind the dash and just run my loom through the bulk head to the necessary sensors.
Much easier for power supply/relays etc

19th April 2009, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by daz_Westcoast

Yeah ditch the standard loom, im just using the standard loom for the bare essentials i.e alternator, starter motor basically anything which doesnt goes back to the OE ecu or main ignition relay.

Ive placed my K3 behind the dash and just run my loom through the bulk head to the necessary sensors.
Much easier for power supply/relays etc

My Emerald is deffo going inside the car this time, as we have had it appart and its deffo not sealed for engine bays we feel, the board does have some staining on. But we tested the K3 and it had the same readings of 100% throttle and 100% something else when there wasnt, changed 2/3Tps and still read the same.

its just ghey atm lol!!

19th April 2009, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

My Emerald is deffo going inside the car this time, as we have had it appart and its deffo not sealed for engine bays we feel, the board does have some staining on. But we tested the K3 and it had the same readings of 100% throttle and 100% something else when there wasnt, changed 2/3Tps and still read the same.

its just ghey atm lol!!

That still not sorted mate?

19th April 2009, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

You would have to else the ECU would go spacko, however still would like to know what is done to the ecu to stop it trying to read from it...

I still think standalone is a much much better option, theres no way id run an OE ecu thats been, adapted to run my engine thats for sure

you could fit the map and afm into the runners and also still use the TPS. ive been thinking of doing this with bike bodies but unsure if it will get dodgy readings with the sensor only reading 1 cylinder when the valve is shut.