which cam?

24th April 2009, 18:57

Which cam is the best for my vtr? currently have a 4-2-1 manifold to go on, panel filter and piperback box.

24th April 2009, 19:07

what do you want from it?

24th April 2009, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj_99

what do you want from it?

To make it quicker

will the newmans be the best for the best gains?

24th April 2009, 19:32

newman is just the make.think they have 5 different cams for vtr.

27th April 2009, 20:14

pipercams

27th April 2009, 22:24

PH3 is your best bet mate. You'll need new valve springs though. May as well buy a predator ECU as well instead of a remap. Much more economical price wise

27th April 2009, 22:26

depends how much you want to spend really mate

a newmans ph1 is a good mild cam, and will see some good results, with this you can use standard pully i believe, erm then wil just need the basics like headgasket, headbolts, etc then fitting

erm but if you are looking to spend a bit more and get more from engine, then newmans ph3 will be your best bet, this would need a remap, also if you have the mk2 engine, 98bhp then you would be best to replace the springs too as they are a bit softer than the 90bhp ones aparently

but all in you could be looking around 800for cam and remap
or around 300 i would say for mild cam, but if you want to save a bit more mate theres a group buy on newmans atm so have a look therecould save a few quid

or take a look at catcams on kamracing, they are great cams too, except they are a bit dearer than newmans i think around 50quid more for similar results

other than that take al ook at kent cams or piper cams as louipfc2007 has mentioned, but personally i would say look at newmans as they are used by alot of people on here

hope this helps mate

27th April 2009, 22:27

Depends what you want. I personally don't see the point in getting something like a ph1, as ph3s are a perfectly viable cam, you CAN fit them without uprating anything, but it's NOT a good idea and you won't get the most out of them. Uprated springs/spring caps are a good idea. Standard ECU will work and won't do any damage, a remap might be a good idea too though while you're at it. You don't need aftermarket with them though, won't really show such huge gains over standard ECU with a map.

27th April 2009, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderxjz82

You don't need aftermarket with them though, won't really show such huge gains over standard ECU with a map.

Thats not the point though, it would certainly see the same if not slightly better gains than the standard ECU. A remap is around £350-£500 depending on where you go, predator ECU is say £550ish. There will be a re-sale value on that when you come to sell and maps can easily be loaded without paying another £400. Good value imo.

As spider says, get the PH3 Wayne, the more milder cams are pointless (this isn't a wild cam but will get more power than a PH1).

27th April 2009, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harv

Thats not the point though, it would certainly see the same if not slightly better gains than the standard ECU. A remap is around £350-£500 depending on where you go, predator ECU is say £550ish. There will be a re-sale value on that when you come to sell and maps can easily be loaded without paying another £400. Good value imo.

As spider says, get the PH3 Wayne, the more milder cams are pointless (this isn't a wild cam but will get more power than a PH1).

Agreed, you make a good point.
I guess I'm just lucky knowing the mapping guys well I tend to get maps at around £200.

27th April 2009, 23:06

I'll be getting a Predator ECU

i'd go for PH3 Newman cams, upgrade everything that needs be of course, what sort of gains would i get with an aftermarket ECU? current mods panel filter, Piper back box, going to get a full Piper stainless steel system with de-cat or a supersprint race centre section with a Piper Backbox, may also get a BMC with samco hosing or a Green Dynatwist Enclosed Induction kit.

27th April 2009, 23:10

I'll let you know what I get when I put the engine in mine. Granted it's a 206 so not quite the same car. But it's the mk2 vtr engine, custom induction, 4-2-1 mani, s/s exhaust, ported/flowed/polished head, uprated springs/caps, ph3 cams. We shall see.

27th April 2009, 23:11

as for gains im not tooo sure, but with your exhaust, i had the supersprint race centre with piper backbox and sounds amazing, loud, but still has a fair bit of rasp, was amazing lol

plus i think its alot cheaper than the piper centre and decat, just for the supersprint centre i think its not much more than what just the piper decat is priced at, so will save you a few quid there too

27th April 2009, 23:19

The Newman PH3 has a power band of 3k - 7k RPM, you'll need uprated valve springs and retainers. Then you'll need a remap to raise the rev limit and take advantage of the raised power band.

I'd buget for about £1000, not seen any results with the PH3 but I rekon with the above 120bhp should be easily attainable.

27th April 2009, 23:31

right also another thing that would get a few more gains is the s1 rallye inlet, but it will only fit if you have the 90bhp head, if not you could get hold of one and then you dont need to get uprated springs i think correct me if im wrong.

but running the s1 inlet mani will give you a few more horses
the inlet should cost around 80quid if you can find one, and is a bit of a fiddle to fit, but well worth it

27th April 2009, 23:43

I have 98bhp model, how much are the uprated springs etc? could i get the head, port and polished or skimmed for some extra bhp on top of those.

27th April 2009, 23:45

You need uprated valve springs in any silver top engine revving over 6250 RPM. Black tops will rev further as the valve springs are stronger.

Piper sell uprated valve springs and caps for about £80 - £100 delivered. Might as well have new valve stem oil seals fitted (from Citroen) too.

27th April 2009, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeumH

You need uprated valve springs in any silver top engine revving over 6250 RPM. Black tops will rev further as the valve springs are stronger.

Piper sell uprated valve springs and caps for about £80 - £100 delivered. Might as well have new valve stem oil seals fitted (from Citroen) too.

cool i'll have a look on pipers site, how much are the valve stem oil seals? wouldn't i get a bit more performance if i get a s1 or s2 box with a qualife or can you qualife an r box?

27th April 2009, 23:50

oh yer ooops forgot the 90bhp silvertop had the same springs lol

yer you could get the headwork done and you would see some extra gains with it, your best giving QEP a call, i rang him the other week about headwork, but really cant remember how much he quoted me, im sure it was 500quid plus vat, for the full works

so its quite costly would be cheaper if you just had gas flow and prot and polish

27th April 2009, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne

cool i'll have a look on pipers site, how much are the valve stem oil seals? wouldn't i get a bit more performance if i get a s1 or s2 box with a qualife or can you qualife an r box?

they are about 1quid each i think at retail from gsf, i got mine from there as i worked there at the time

but go gsf carparts it will be alot cheaper than citroen, should be around the 1pound mark i think

as for gearbox, you will see big differences in acceleration with any rallye or xsi box, as the vtr is soooo long, i have the 1.4 xsi which is shortest ratio and im very impressed with it

so i you got hold of a rallye or xsi box with diff it should get the power down alot better and give you a bit more acceleration with either box

27th April 2009, 23:52

Im not clued up on 8v cam specs/engines but I go for a similar spec that the 16v boys run. The one that offers best gains before going for uprated internals.

Ideally you want headwork with the cam Wayne.

27th April 2009, 23:53

Opp and a Venier Pulley you need too as the 8v's dont come with them Ive read somewhere?

27th April 2009, 23:54

Yeah, vernier pulley is a must if you're getting it mapped. I've got a Baker BM pulley on mine and it's sound for £89.

27th April 2009, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeumH

Yeah, vernier pulley is a must if you're getting it mapped. I've got a Baker BM pulley on mine and it's sound for £89.

Is he doing 16v ones too? There lighter I believe right?

28th April 2009, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushy_23

Is he doing 16v ones too? There lighter I believe right?

Just 8V pulleys at present - might be worth firing him an e-mail to see if he has any in the pipeline!

The Baker 8V pulleys are 33% lighter than standard, so that'd be per pulley on a valver.

28th April 2009, 00:09

Ahh you talk my lingo

(yes I know I still rock my carpet)

28th April 2009, 00:14

Is QEP the best for the doing headwork? valve stem oil seals, vernier pulley, valve springs, better gearbox with qualife, Newman ph3 cams, upgraded internals, supersprint race section, enclosed induction kit how much bhp we talking? with all this on an 8v.

28th April 2009, 00:27

erm, from what ive heard and read they are very good, could probs get it done cheaper, but i would go there just cause i trust there work and there rep, its a bit like a remap, alot of places do it cheap, but is it right, chipwizards is expensive, but one of the best in uk as people have said, so you pay for the quality really

but oh and you dont need upgraded internals mate the cam isnt that wild, you will have loads of clearence with pistons and valves so dont worry about them mate

the box wont make a difference on power either, its explained in a thread some where but with all that you could see 125bhp maybe, but alot of things can affect the power output, you wont really know untill you get it done and put on rollers, but i would have thought 120 to 125bhp

28th April 2009, 00:31

here you go have a read through that mate

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=225971

its explained a couple of times what diff the box makes, plus adsayer gives a good explanation of how it makes a difference on acceleration nearer to the bottom of page 1

hope that all helps mate

28th April 2009, 00:51

Thanks everyone for the help

i'll get in touch with a few more companies, but will certainly consider those mods

28th April 2009, 07:35

Quaifed box is a fairly expensive bit of kit if your not going to be using it to its full potential imo Wayne.

Ive had mine for around 6 months now and am yet to put the car on track to justify buying it. Doesnt really matter as I plan to track it more when things get better. So applying that theory to your situation, whats the purpose of the car? If your going to take it to the drag strip and do a few trackdays then its worth it.
If its just a "fast road car" I personally wouldnt bother with the Quaife. Some may disagree but I dont see the point. If your driving fast enough on the road to be putting the box to use then its only a matter of time before your caught speeding!

28th April 2009, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushy_23

Quaifed box is a fairly expensive bit of kit if your not going to be using it to its full potential imo Wayne.

Ive had mine for around 6 months now and am yet to put the car on track to justify buying it. Doesnt really matter as I plan to track it more when things get better. So applying that theory to your situation, whats the purpose of the car? If your going to take it to the drag strip and do a few trackdays then its worth it.
If its just a "fast road car" I personally wouldnt bother with the Quaife. Some may disagree but I dont see the point. If your driving fast enough on the road to be putting the box to use then its only a matter of time before your caught speeding!

i'd take it on quarter mile runs and track days of course

thats the idea once i get the car where i want it, i may strip it also, for a bit of weight saving, need to get some track wheels also, i was looking at getting some speedline turini's or oz ultraleggras or superlegs, i see your point though buddy, thats the route i want to take it though