Air filter/Induction Kits

28th April 2009, 14:37

Iv read all the stuff saying you should just get a panel filter blah blah blah.

But where are these rolling road figures people go on about and can they be added to the big induction thread on the stickies.

28th April 2009, 14:39

alll about kn's m8 there the best

28th April 2009, 14:40

I just so happen to have put a K&N up for sale.

28th April 2009, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge-

I just so happen to have put a K&N up for sale.

LOL, where have I said anywhere I want a K&N...and I think id rather pay a fiver more and get a piperx one new.

I want some facts and figures...

28th April 2009, 14:49

Uprated panel filters are always the best bet. And the guy above just said K&N, open filters are shite, get something enclosed atleast.

28th April 2009, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge-

Uprated panel filters are always the best bet. And the guy above just said K&N, open filters are shite, get something enclosed atleast.

Why are they the best bet?

Im after proof...not what people think is the best.

Like I said at the top, iv seen everyone's opinion on the panel filters and understand why people think there the best, but id like to see the real facts and figures rather then rely on word of mouth.

Or are there no facts and figures and its just peoples opinions?

28th April 2009, 14:59

I know there is proof on a 205 GTI, I cant be arsed to find the thread, but someone fitting one of those Viper kit things, had a dyno before and after and lost bhp

28th April 2009, 15:05

At end of the day mate its just an induction kit. You're going to see very simular gains throughout all the enclosed ones, very simular losses between all the open ones.

There will be no noticeable difference between openfilter1 and openfilter2. OR between enclosedinduction1 and enclosedinduction2.

I'm all about bang for buck. The raceland is the cheapest enclosed, and it does the job perfectly. Most people say uprate the raceland to a green. I had the cheap red filter with mine and i still think the raceland is great.

I'd only be looking into 'the best' air filter if i had a highly tuned engine and was using my car for racing on a regular basis.

28th April 2009, 15:07

thats not quite right on the 205 matey.

- the exhaust on the 205 gti is perfect the only upgrade is noise you get tiny if any gains from a full system. pug just got it right in the factory.
- As for the intake you can get a kit which relocates the filter to the front of the car which i havent seen proof but from what i was told buy a mate as we fitted it its meant to be a lot better.

Inclosed bmc cda with some proper ducting would get my vote on a tu for aftermarket if your a panel filter hater.

Matt.

28th April 2009, 15:09

Yeah, what did you say any differently?

Those Pipercross Viper systems lost power on a 205

Standard > Aftermarket

28th April 2009, 15:10

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87301 i know you said you read all stuff have you also read this post?

28th April 2009, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge-

Yeah, what did you say any differently?

Those Pipercross Viper systems lost power on a 205

Standard > Aftermarket

Didnt read your post properly only scanned it thaugt you where saying there isnt a decent aftermarket kit for the 205. not just slating the pikeycrosses.

I my self had a viper on a car inclosed the works it was on there for mmmm 2 months before i binned it for a drilled oem intake with a panel filter lol

Matt.

28th April 2009, 15:20

If it was me spending my own money then i would either go for a BMC lookalike with a better filter in it, or a K an N Gen2.

28th April 2009, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

If it was me spending my own money then i would either go for a BMC lookalike with a better filter in it, or a K an N Gen2.

Is there a problem with the "real" bmc filter ? i know the raclands come with a cheaper filter which is popully replaced buy the green but never heard of a bad word vs the bmc cda's ?

Matt.

28th April 2009, 15:27

The ebay specials are like half the price, £45 posted or something rather than £150! Just gotta add on a new filter.

28th April 2009, 15:29

you want figures and explanations? use the fucking search button. 2 weeks ago we had a massive thread on heat soak, panel filters and volumetric efficency. im not explaining that again.

if you love k an n so much explain this then-

why has every single formula one car ever made since the 1960s had an enclosed air filter like the bmc cda?

28th April 2009, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniGibbo

Is there a problem with the "real" bmc filter ? i know the raclands come with a cheaper filter which is popully replaced buy the green but never heard of a bad word vs the bmc cda's ?

Matt.

No problem i just think there overpriced

And i know the Gen2 is more but i think its better.

Just my opinions.

28th April 2009, 15:35

the gen 2 is shit

28th April 2009, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

the gen 2 is shit

Nice strong opinion you have there

28th April 2009, 15:48

apparantly i need to stop swearing on forums. its bad when a MOD rings you and asks you to stop lmao.

so hear-

the gen 2 is sh*t

28th April 2009, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

apparantly i need to stop swearing on forums. its bad when a MOD rings you and asks you to stop lmao.

so hear-

the gen 2 is sh*t

cool it twinkle toes.

28th April 2009, 15:55

I did some calcs last night... the filteration area of the standard filter for the VTS is nearly 0.9 square metres... which is a FOCKING HUGE area. The filter itself isn't the restriction in the intake... it's the piping... sort that shit out and you've got yourself the best intake system you can get.

28th April 2009, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

apparantly i need to stop swearing on forums. its bad when a MOD rings you and asks you to stop lmao.

so hear-

the gen 2 is sh*t

Moderator harrasment? wtf

28th April 2009, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

Moderator harrasment? wtf

dont worry about it lmao

28th April 2009, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

you want figures and explanations? use the fucking search button. 2 weeks ago we had a massive thread on heat soak, panel filters and volumetric efficency. im not explaining that again.

if you love k an n so much explain this then-

why has every single formula one car ever made since the 1960s had an enclosed air filter like the bmc cda?

explain this... how come you post opinionated comments in technical sections and hadn't even heard of Borewash?

28th April 2009, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

I did some calcs last night... the filteration area of the standard filter for the VTS is nearly 0.9 square metres... which is a FOCKING HUGE area. The filter itself isn't the restriction in the intake... it's the piping... sort that shit out and you've got yourself the best intake system you can get.

do you have any suggetions on how to do this?

28th April 2009, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

dont worry about it lmao

How much are they paying you to keep quite? Or are they making ban threats

28th April 2009, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

do you have any suggetions on how to do this?

yeeeeeeaaaahhh boi...

'you want figures and explanations? use the fucking search button. 2 weeks ago we had a massive thread on modifying the standard air intake. im not explaining that again.'

28th April 2009, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

yeeeeeeaaaahhh boi...

'you want figures and explanations? use the fucking search button. 2 weeks ago we had a massive thread on modifying the standard air intake. im not explaining that again.'

playing funny fuckers are we?

it was actually a serious question as would you sort the pipeing out? what nominal bore, what material etc....

28th April 2009, 16:09

not playing funny fuckers. I just don't see why you have all this attitude towards others who are just as inquisitive as yourself, the forum is here for learning, sharing ideas and most importantly... spamming, not posting belittling comments as a 'response'.

apologise or search or stick to your apparent F1 CDA filters.
then I'll answer it.

28th April 2009, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

not playing funny fuckers. I just don't see why you have all this attitude towards others who are just as inquisitive as yourself, the forum is here for learning, sharing ideas and most importantly... spamming, not posting belittling comments as a 'response'.

apologise or search or stick to your apparent F1 CDA filters.
then I'll answer it.

go fuck your self. im not apologising when i have done nothing wrong smart arse. who the fuck do you think your talking to?

in all the shit ive seen on this forum ive never ever made anyone apologise for there comments, who do you think you are?

28th April 2009, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

you want figures and explanations? use the fucking search button.

Mate I can't find the facts anywhere, if it so easy to find please link it to me. I can find what people say is best but no facts.

28th April 2009, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldy87

who the fuck do you think your talking to?

a cretin?

28th April 2009, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

a cretin?

Ladies put your handbags down

If you havent got some rolling road/dyno figures with different airfilters fitted, or recommendation on what to replace the 90 degree piping (TB to airbox) on a VTS to post then I really dont want know.

28th April 2009, 16:23

hiya peeps. i am a new member to all this just wonderin how all of this works an tha. if any1 can help pleez do let me now.

28th April 2009, 16:26

ite fela. jus wonderin if u can help me get 2 now how all of this site works. am a new member u se

28th April 2009, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hpi_matrix

Ladies put your handbags down

If you havent got some rolling road/dyno figures with different airfilters fitted, or recommendation on what to replace the 90 degree piping (TB to airbox) on a VTS to post then I really dont want know.

silenced him anyway...

sadly most of it is just 'opinion'.
'yeah it runs well wicked now, must like 30hp more'

It doesn't cut it with me either which is why I generally ignore most of it and the opinions of the people that post. Even then I don't believe the rolling road figures as they can typically vary around 3%.
So instead I'm opting for good, engineering point of view on it.
My intake is standard, judging by the soiling on the filter itself the filteration seems to be over the entire filteration area so the airbox is good, no need to get rid of that. Also the filteration area is bigger than most other filters (hoping Jorge will confirm with K&N panel filter measurements later) so offers less restriction anyway.

The box and filter is good... that's 100% fact.

The ducting isn't... that's also fact, someone (can't remember who) did a comparison between intake on and then the tb exposed to the atmosphere, which showed an increase. on top of that with a little bit of understanding of airflow through piping you can come to same conclusion anyway.

so good ducting is the way forward.

ads

28th April 2009, 16:35

Haha @ this thread!

Good advice as ever Ads! I've got a K&N panel filter in my VTS airbox and a simple piece of hose to the standard slam panel intake scoop. Works a treat!

You mentioned something about silicone hose being the best due to the smooth internal surface. I've got some plastic flexi hose on mine atm (73mm, so a bit too big actualy) Do you think I'd be worth down sizing to the correct size hose and made from silicone?

Setup choice ftw ^^

Cheers.

28th April 2009, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

The ducting isn't... that's also fact, someone (can't remember who) did a comparison between intake on and then the tb exposed to the atmosphere, which showed an increase. on top of that with a little bit of understanding of airflow through piping you can come to same conclusion anyway.

so good ducting is the way forward.

ads

That i agree with - ducting/cold air feed is one of the most important things to sort out if your after power.
I do also agree that an enclosed airbox/filter helps (not that I have one atm - i am looking out for the best one for price, engineering and lastability (sp - if it is even a word) but it is something I am researching).
BUT some people want a airfilter for the noise - which i can relate to - in which case a cheap £5 airfilter from ebay will do the job - what mine was before i got the VTS engine.

28th April 2009, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finchowned

I've got a K&N panel filter in my VTS airbox and a simple piece of hose to the standard slam panel intake scoop. Works a treat!

I am lucky enough to have morrettes - so will remove the inner light and have a cold air feed from that me thinks

28th April 2009, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

silenced him anyway...

sadly most of it is just 'opinion'.
'yeah it runs well wicked now, must like 30hp more'

It doesn't cut it with me either which is why I generally ignore most of it and the opinions of the people that post. Even then I don't believe the rolling road figures as they can typically vary around 3%.
So instead I'm opting for good, engineering point of view on it.
My intake is standard, judging by the soiling on the filter itself the filteration seems to be over the entire filteration area so the airbox is good, no need to get rid of that. Also the filteration area is bigger than most other filters (hoping Jorge will confirm with K&N panel filter measurements later) so offers less restriction anyway.

The box and filter is good... that's 100% fact.

The ducting isn't... that's also fact, someone (can't remember who) did a comparison between intake on and then the tb exposed to the atmosphere, which showed an increase. on top of that with a little bit of understanding of airflow through piping you can come to same conclusion anyway.

so good ducting is the way forward.

ads

I'am sticking with the normal air box with some piping running from my fog light to it (will upgrade from the normal panel filter at some point as well), I was just interested in seeing the figures people bang on about (which cant seem to be provided!)

28th April 2009, 16:44

TBH i not done a test (ie swapping airfilters about) but I am happy with the power I have got with the set up i run.

28th April 2009, 16:45

Finch, I might do that!

I have that half of the airbox, and the scoop, but nothing to join them. Just looks a mess though

28th April 2009, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge-

Finch, I might do that!

I have that half of the airbox, and the scoop, but nothing to join them. Just looks a mess though

Yeah it's well worth doing. I had just the airbox on for a while and it drove and sounded rubbish lol. Get some piping on their and a panel filter and you'll be suprised that it does actualy make a positive difference.

Can't see how you can say it looks a mess though dude? A lot tidier than all that 'intestine' bs that's on their standard (I did have to bodge mine to make it fit though lol)!

28th April 2009, 17:14

I have the Raceland on mine with a very large green filter, I am happy, I did the silly thing of cut a nice chunk out the slam panel for additional air too.

28th April 2009, 18:16

im currently running a set up similar to finch but with a standard filter. difference? what difference, its a bit louder than standard.

what i dont like though is how you have to loop the cold air feed down before getting it to the scoop which is a bit small and blocked by the slam panel. it surely must cause a drop in pressure?? (correct me if wrong)

i am going to be trying a couple of things. inc a moddified raceland a bmc and standard.

i will be reporting back what i find out.