Torsion bar...

11th May 2009, 17:43

Was speaking with a mechanic today, and he insists that the only way you can lower a torsion bar, is to take it out and put it back a few notches down. This isnt the best way of doing it is it?

I know thers a guide somewere, anyone got the link? I cant seem to find it.

Also can someone do me a few bullet points of what the process is so i can tell him?

Thanks in advance.

11th May 2009, 17:47

http://www.badgermotorsport.co.uk/lowering.htm

have a gand on there mate. I think most people (that do it right) do it by jacking up something once the bar is out, but don't quote me on this.

11th May 2009, 17:50

yeah man, take the bar out, and jack up the arm and ut the bar back in... dont twist it / click / notches ... anyhting like that!

measure how big you want the drop to be and raise it.
that link ^^^ is all good man.

if the mechanic says he clicks, twists, notches.... walk off

11th May 2009, 17:51

the trailing arm should be set to the right height and then the bar reinserted

11th May 2009, 17:53

Nearly all mechanics do it the spline way as its less effort and means you dont need to remove all ends of the bars. Very likely youll fook the bearings.

Do it yourself its piss easy, only issue is when it seized. Plenty of info on the search too

11th May 2009, 17:53

So, take the bar out, move it down to how low i want it, then reinsert it

11th May 2009, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

So, take the bar out, move it down to how low i want it, then reinsert it

push the trailing arm UP, if you move it down you will have a commically jacked up rear end

11th May 2009, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

push the trailing arm UP, if you move it down you will have a commically jacked up rear end

I am really struggling to understand.

What shall i say to him?

> Take the torsion bar out
> push the trailing arms up?

11th May 2009, 17:58

The guide shows you, but the car is on the jacks yes with no loading on the trailing arm.

So therefore with no loading it drops downwards. You push it down further and then reinsert the bar and you have done what when the car is back on the ground?

11th May 2009, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

The guide shows you, but the car is on the jacks yes with no loading on the trailing arm.

So therefore with no loading it drops downwards. You push it down further and then reinsert the bar and you have done what when the car is back on the ground?

Understand more now

11th May 2009, 18:39

what will 40mm at the back look like? If i leave the front standard height for now?

11th May 2009, 18:47

im tryina do 50 maybe 55mm on the back and its turnin out to be a bastard, ive rounded off 2 of the torx bolts in the torsion bars, got one out by hammerin a diff type into it but aint tried on the otha one yet, mines a T reg and by god have i had to wd40 everythin to fuck lol, might be somethin to do with all the salt in the air round here tho

11th May 2009, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

what will 40mm at the back look like? If i leave the front standard height for now?

daft...

11th May 2009, 19:03

try plus gas, its like wd40, but much better.

11th May 2009, 20:08

What about 40mm front 50mm back?

11th May 2009, 20:29

lower the front, then simply match the ride height on the rear.

11th May 2009, 20:51

Could someone just some up what i need to say to the mechanic?

Just a short paragraph of how i can explain it to him?

11th May 2009, 20:53

you want the back level with the front,to match your springs.
i dont know what springs your gonna use !

11th May 2009, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

Could someone just some up what i need to say to the mechanic?

Just a short paragraph of how i can explain it to him?

tell him to read the badgersport guide.

which is REMOVE TORSION BAR FULLY! adjust trailing arm to desired height, and reinsert bar.

11th May 2009, 20:58

Okay, this notches thing needs clearing up for me please.

The way I understand it is a torsion bar is round bar of sprung steel, it has splines at each end so it can be anchored to the body/beam and to the moving suspension/trailing arm. Some old American cars used bars mounted longitudinaly for front suspension springing blah blah.

Okay, so to physically alter the ride height we must free the moving arm from the splined section on the bar, raise it by Xmm and re insert the bar to effectively "lock" our new ride height in position.

Now comes the bit I don't understand, lets say some one drops the car 50mm but I wanted 55mm or 56mm or 59mm for arguments sake, I am thinking that the bar might not slide back into its splines at exactly what I want so I would be forced to settle for what ever is closest.

I can not understand the difference between the wrong and right way - my only thought on this is the torsion bar has offset splines so if it would not go back in I would rotate it a bit and try again until I found a position it would fit into.

11th May 2009, 21:19

Thanks for the replies lads, lastly what does doing it the notches way put straing on?

Bearings or something?

11th May 2009, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

Thanks for the replies lads, lastly what does doing it the notches way put straing on?

Bearings or something?

bearings tend to fail quicker with the splines method, if hes only willing to do it via splines ask for a certificate from him to say he will fix bearings FOC if they end up dieing

11th May 2009, 21:23

And set it slightly higher on the back (5 or 10mm higher) than its sat on the front.

11th May 2009, 21:25

Soooooooooo, can anyone explain the difference between these two methods?

11th May 2009, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

And set it slightly higher on the back (5 or 10mm higher) than its sat on the front.

I was gonna go 40mm front and 50mm back

11th May 2009, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo123

Okay, this notches thing needs clearing up for me please.

Now comes the bit I don't understand, lets say some one drops the car 50mm but I wanted 55mm or 56mm or 59mm for arguments sake, I am thinking that the bar might not slide back into its splines at exactly what I want so I would be forced to settle for what ever is closest.

Thats true, splines are very small so will probally click back in te nearest one to yuor desired hieght. Why would you want to go down 57MM or something like that?

11th May 2009, 22:31

Quote:

Soooooooooo, can anyone explain the difference between these two methods?

The 'notches/splines' method is done by leaving the bars in place, nocking the trailing arms off the stub pins and rotating the arm around and reinstalling it at a different point on the splines of the torsion bar, pretty difficult to imagine without pictures or descent knowlage of rear beams

The proper way is to remove the bolt out of either end of the torsion bars and use a slide hammer to pull them out, i normally like to hold the trailing arms together so that you cant pull the arm off when you remove the bar. If there fairly seized though youll be lucky to get them out with a slide hammer.

Walk away from anyone who says about removing the trailing arms, only do this if your fitting new bearings to them. Personaly for the sake of 60 quid id replace the bearings when lowering, wouldnt have to worry about the beam being seized or worry about the bearings failing for a few more years.

11th May 2009, 22:54

:w all:

11th May 2009, 23:18

thanks dor the guide it helped me as well

11th May 2009, 23:23

i used badger sport quide and went sweet as melons man

12th May 2009, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by james_pug

The 'notches/splines' method is done by leaving the bars in place, nocking the trailing arms off the stub pins and rotating the arm around and reinstalling it at a different point on the splines of the torsion bar, pretty difficult to imagine without pictures or descent knowlage of rear beams

The proper way is to remove the bolt out of either end of the torsion bars and use a slide hammer to pull them out, i normally like to hold the trailing arms together so that you cant pull the arm off when you remove the bar. If there fairly seized though youll be lucky to get them out with a slide hammer.

Walk away from anyone who says about removing the trailing arms, only do this if your fitting new bearings to them. Personaly for the sake of 60 quid id replace the bearings when lowering, wouldnt have to worry about the beam being seized or worry about the bearings failing for a few more years.

now i get it. that's some useful information. i might give it a go myself this summer.

12th May 2009, 07:11

James_Pug, thank you.
Why would someone do that!! To even consider knocking the trailing arm off should be a crime when the bars can be knocked out without distrubing the bearings.

Again, thank you for explaining that-i'm sure this will have helped other members also

Dannyboy 2005, I was using different heights as an example to try and expalin my point-ie i did not understand how a height can be chosen and set if the splines won't match up.

12th May 2009, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

Could someone just some up what i need to say to the mechanic?

Just a short paragraph of how i can explain it to him?

what you need to say to hi is, 'fuck that, im taking it to somewhere that knows how to do it'

as imo, he will just do it the way he knows.

12th May 2009, 13:43

everywhere seems to only do the splines method, they seem to think this is the right way, it may seem nice and cheap at first but down the line the little sax is gonna slap you with alot of bills.
ive saved up a wee bit more ash and found a guy who will do it the right way.
i mean what are the measurments of each notch?
you might end up with 57-45 on your car and that ccant be god for dampers?

13th May 2009, 15:26

Don't do it by notches. The person who had my Saxo before me did and it completely ruined my car and I have had to replace the whole axle with a fully refurbed one! All the bearings and bushes had gone and my wheels were at real angles with the tops rubbing against my arches. It has only done 38k on the clock and is 5 years old. Be warned! When I had the axle replaced I had it lowered the correct way this time.