Piper cam question

1. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

   #1 24th May 2009, 00:52

   Hi everyone
   I bought Piper cams second hand (or at last they told me they are piper ones) which are 264/262 and 9.6/9.8 lifted. Anyway, i bought a thinner head gastek and skimmed the head a little(the skim+gasket=1mm down the head), ported and polished the head...so far so good. But when i started the car the idel was like normal and it wasn't lumpy. The car isn't remapped but goes better tha before and it starts pulling strong from 5k to the 7500limiter. My question is why my idel isn's any lumpy ? Is it possible that i bought standart cams ? Or the profile of those piper cams is too "soft" ?
2. user_257 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2003 Kent Posts: 3994

   #2 24th May 2009, 00:56

   Is this for the VTR and what year of car?
3. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

   #3 24th May 2009, 00:59

   It's 106 rallye s1 with 16v conversion from 3 plug saxo vts
4. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

   #4 24th May 2009, 01:03

   the end of the cam will have a stamp, logo or marking saying what company its is or what model it is. take a look. not all cams cause a lumpy idle unmapped even 708's and ph3's can have a smooth idle if timed correctly
5. user_257 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2003 Kent Posts: 3994

   #5 24th May 2009, 01:05

   It is weird but I do know of a guy who drove a cammed VTS without a remap.
   
   You should notice an extra gain with a remap.
   
   But regarding finding out what cams you have will be hard without looking at the end on them afaik, and that is obviously hard in itself.
6. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

   #6 24th May 2009, 01:13

   is there a way to see it with only taking of the cam covers ?
   And what is the stamp of the standart cams ?
7. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

   #7 24th May 2009, 01:27

   Depends how you've timed the cam in tbh. If you used the standard timing marks, then most aftermarket cams will be quite lumpy on the valver engine.
8. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

   #8 24th May 2009, 16:45

   today i took off the cam covers and there is :
   CS16.030.094.260 stamped on the intake valve
   CS16.094.260 stamped on the exaust valve
   any ideas what valves are these ?
9. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

   #9 24th May 2009, 16:49

   Sorry i mean cams not valves, my english is very bad
10. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #10 24th May 2009, 16:55

    isnt 260 standard?
11. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

    #11 24th May 2009, 17:00

    yes can anyone tell what are the standart part numbers ?
12. user_257 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2003 Kent Posts: 3994

    #12 24th May 2009, 17:05

    Got this from the Piper site which may help:
    
    
13. user_257 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2003 Kent Posts: 3994

    #13 24th May 2009, 17:06

    Yours could be the Fast Road ones at the top.
14. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

    #14 24th May 2009, 17:13

    hah, they aren't piper at all as i see....
    any ideas please ?
15. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #15 24th May 2009, 17:20

    measure the base circle, then measure the length of the lobe and subtract the base circle from this.
    
    standard cams have lift of 8.49mm, so anymore will be aftermarket. but mild aftermarket cams dont have a lumpy idle anyway,
16. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #16 24th May 2009, 17:20

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sparco_Tom isnt 260 standard?

    nope, 708s are only 258 degree, think newmans ph3 are 264?? or 262??
17. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #17 24th May 2009, 17:28

    oh right i seee
18. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

    #18 24th May 2009, 17:36

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by williamsvts measure the base circle, then measure the length of the lobe and subtract the base circle from this. standard cams have lift of 8.49mm, so anymore will be aftermarket. but mild aftermarket cams dont have a lumpy idle anyway,

    is it possible to do this without thaking the cam off the engine ?
19. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #19 24th May 2009, 17:37

    probably, turn the cam so a vlave is fully open, this way you should be able to measure the base circle, then turn the cam 90 degrees so you can measure the lobe length. you'll need a vernier caliper to do this.
20. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

    #20 24th May 2009, 17:45

    thanks very much for the advice. And please if someone can tell me what cams i bought because i'm really mad
21. user_257 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2003 Kent Posts: 3994

    #21 24th May 2009, 18:07

    Call up Piper on Tuesday and read them the numbers you found on your cams to see if they are actual Piper cams or not.
22. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

    #22 30th May 2009, 13:19

    the cams are Colobmo & Bariani, but my exaust cam didn't exist in the catalogue.
    And i have a questin - the intake cam is 9.4 lift with 260 gradus
    the exaust cam is 9.0 lift with 270 gradus
    Why is the exaust gradus bigger what the intake ? I can't see the logic :confused:
23. RJE Infrequent Poster Joined: May 2009 Croydon Posts: 144 SAXO VTS :),VW GOLF MK4, PUNTO HGT

    #23 30th May 2009, 13:58

    what do you mean by it idling about to stall?
24. VTRlaa Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Wrexham Posts: 158 1994 Rover Mini Sprite 1.3, 2003 Saxo VTR

    #24 30th May 2009, 14:23

    The 260 and 270 figures are degrees figures, or in other words a measure for how long the cam leaves the valves open.
    
    The 260 degree cam is used in standard production for the VTR/S, while a 270 is for fast road use, then you can go up to full race specs at 300+ degrees.
    
    These figures relate to all cams no matter what make piper, catcams whoever they will all be stamped with those degree ratings.
    
    Please correct if Im wrong - Cheers
25. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

    #25 30th May 2009, 18:01

    i see there is missunderstand so i'll start a new thread
26. n123 Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 144

    #26 30th May 2009, 18:08

    the standar saxo cams have a duration of 205 deegres if i'm not wrong
27. speed_devil L-plater Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 72

    #27 30th May 2009, 18:24

    the standart saxo cams have 212 duration with 8.5 lift at 0.1 wich means 252 duration
28. VTRlaa Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Wrexham Posts: 158 1994 Rover Mini Sprite 1.3, 2003 Saxo VTR

    #28 1st June 2009, 13:32

    oops sorry thats how i read it off pipers website
29. n123 Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 144

    #29 1st June 2009, 14:28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speed_devil the standart saxo cams have 212 duration with 8.5 lift at 0.1 wich means 252 duration

    why? if the cam has 212 duration why dependind on the lift would have more or less duration?