the best way to get 200bhp

9th June 2009, 22:41

i shall hav my vts conversion in by next week i hope(having collosal trouble finding a mechanic in dublin to do it)

once this is done....
whats the best way to get 200bhp or even more
give me your suggestions in order for best performance

1.cams
2.remap
3.decat
4.straighthrough exhaust
5.manifold
6.airfilter(already have)

what bhp would this get me to?

7.throttlebodies
8.???
9.???

thanks

9th June 2009, 22:43

cams map and decat is 150-170 i believe depending on cams and quality of map.
from a previous thread of mine i was told i'd be looking at £2.5k thrown at a turbo set up to get 200bhp

9th June 2009, 22:43

a turbo would be a huge help i would imagine, also what air filter do you have?

not all air filters increase performance.

9th June 2009, 22:44

n/a to get 200bhp your looking at near enough 10k spent on the engine mate

.

9th June 2009, 22:44

turbo or supercharge,that the only way of goin over 200 bhp

9th June 2009, 22:46

really??
ive a vts carbon fibre air filter.

9th June 2009, 22:47

200 on an na engine is pushing it and tbh it wont be useable daily imo

boost would be the best option but still gonna take a few grand

9th June 2009, 22:47

hasnt ryans got in excess of 10k in it? dont think thats 200bhp is it?

9th June 2009, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

hasnt ryans got in excess of 10k in it? dont think thats 200bhp is it?

It was last RR'd at 198bhp, think its got around 8k spent on it yeah!

9th June 2009, 22:50

why not daily??

9th June 2009, 22:53

booooooost

9th June 2009, 22:55

I'm not a mechanic wizard but 200bhp+ going through two tyres that do the steering too, I think your going to have serious torque steer and terrible tyre wear imo.

9th June 2009, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

booooooost

does not compute!!
you mean turbo?

9th June 2009, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

why not daily??

such a highy tuned engine would really be fun to try to drive daily just cause of how they are

9th June 2009, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

does not compute!!
you mean turbo?

yep, only way you'll do it without spending 5 or 6 times the cars value!

9th June 2009, 22:57

ah yeah i guessed that,kinda like a bmw or whatever right/?

9th June 2009, 22:58

would need to uprate gearbox bearings and shafts im guessing as well and really consider an lsd?

9th June 2009, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

ah yeah i guessed that,kinda like a bmw or whatever right/?

dont get you there

9th June 2009, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

yep, only way you'll do it without spending 5 or 6 times the cars value!

but isnt that all the fun

9th June 2009, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB

such a highy tuned engine would really be fun to try to drive daily just cause of how they are

i mean the likes of your audi and skyline,its relative

9th June 2009, 23:03

Well Audis and Skylines are either RWD or 4WD, your FF, it would be interesting to drive in the same way its interesting to wrestle a bear on rollerblades.

9th June 2009, 23:03

try putting a tow rope on a scooby or evo......lol

9th June 2009, 23:05

why are you mentioning random other cars???

danny meant a turbo conversion on the vts lump
tbh thats the best way to go with it
and then sort a box out with a quaife in ect
tbh your looking at about 6 or 7 grand to get a good reliable 200 that you can drive daily
but tbh i wouldnt wanna use it daily just to preseve it

9th June 2009, 23:05

Lol, every car manufactured has a limit to what punishment it can take. The chassis of your saxo would be bending in every direction due to the torque so not only is the suspension going to need to be stiffened the rigidity of the body will need work probably. Simple answer, buy a faster car.

9th June 2009, 23:05

tbh a well set up front wheel drive car with a lot of power wouldnt be too bad, probably easier to drive fast than a rwd anyway

9th June 2009, 23:07

Do we all know the Astra VXR? Too much power but a well setup car, look at how bad it drives lol

9th June 2009, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB

why are you mentioning random other cars???

danny meant a turbo conversion on the vts lump
tbh thats the best way to go with it
and then sort a box out with a quaife in ect
tbh your looking at about 6 or 7 grand to get a good reliable 200 that you can drive daily
but tbh i wouldnt wanna use it daily just to preseve it

no i just mean about the power like a 200bhp audi or a 200bhp saxo.

9th June 2009, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

tbh a well set up front wheel drive car with a lot of power wouldnt be too bad, probably easier to drive fast than a rwd anyway

No chance! The small thing called "Torque Steer" would cripple you if your trying to have fun on the twisties. Don't know what Ryans is like with regards to it, but I've seen a 180bhp mini torque steering towards ditches etc. Rear wheel drive, you just have to take care of your arse.

4wd is almost unspinnable unless your a tosser. Lol.

9th June 2009, 23:09

Ye but those cars will have different characteristics mate ie handling, how they give out the power etc.

9th June 2009, 23:10

+1 to Dan lol, sorry Jon in the end it is your choice but you will go through the pearly gates in a ball of fire if you max out your Saxo. Anyway its much more fun to go backwards through them

9th June 2009, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTJames

Do we all know the Astra VXR? Too much power but a well setup car, look at how bad it drives lol

why how many have you driven? they dont have too much power at all

9th June 2009, 23:14

200bhp can be safely put on the road on a front wheel drive car...... it just depends on the car. imo its way too much for a saxo with other tings left as standard. i wouldnt want that much from it personally, its going to be a nightmare as an every day driver. dont take it out on rainy days for a start and for the money you could get yourself something alot nicer. id be happy to settle with 150 as a target

9th June 2009, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

why how many have you driven? they dont have too much power at all

id second that, although the zafira gsi/vxr does get abit of torque steer, less in the newer vxr though

9th June 2009, 23:16

haha!! im not gonna max it jus gonna have some fun.
im a very safe driver anyway and no boy racer.
too many ppl die because of this.
simos vts is 300 bhp right?

9th June 2009, 23:16

two and there horrid, also when it was on Top Gear but i'm digressing, I mean it is feasible but the effort that has to go into doing everything else to the car is alot of work.

9th June 2009, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

200bhp can be safely put on the road on a front wheel drive car...... it just depends on the car. imo its way too much for a saxo with other tings left as standard. i wouldnt want that much from it personally, its going to be a nightmare as an every day driver. dont take it out on rainy days for a start and for the money you could get yourself something alot nicer. id be happy to settle with 150 as a target

i think for now im just going for 160bhp, but i eventually want a track only 300bhp monster

9th June 2009, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

haha!! im not gonna max it jus gonna have some fun.
im a very safe driver anyway and no boy racer.
too many ppl die because of this.
simos vts is 300 bhp right?

not as far as ive seen
but there is one over 400 on here (well a 106 gti)
however its an absolute animal of a thing and i rekon theres over 15k sunk into it and the only origonal thing in the bay is the engine block
its had a conversion to a be gearbox
custom driveshafts
allsorts
and tbh i wouldnt wanna use it on the roads with that
it goes like fuck though

9th June 2009, 23:19

edit**
just wanna know what it would take for 200bhp!

9th June 2009, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

edit**
just wanna know what it would take for 200bhp!

ok then

low compression forged pistons
forged rods
flowed head
boost cam
turbo manifold
turbo downpipe
turbo (im not clued up on sizes ect though)
standalone ecu
intercooler
oil cooler
probably a lot more
then sorting the chassis to take it

9th June 2009, 23:23

thats very impessive!! would beat an evo which is insane!!

9th June 2009, 23:25

it probably wouldnt though mate if you set the suspension up wrong ect as itud just tramp and spin instead of moving

9th June 2009, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

i think for now im just going for 160bhp, but i eventually want a track only 300bhp monster

Could buy my engine and that WILL give you over the 300hp mark

Oh and 200+ hp is no problem to drive in a fwd saxo..

9th June 2009, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB

it probably wouldnt though mate if you set the suspension up wrong ect as itud just tramp and spin instead of moving

would be a fun sight to see

9th June 2009, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dboyvts

Could buy my engine and that WILL give you over the 300hp mark

Oh and 200+ hp is no problem to drive in a fwd saxo..

ha ha, unless you're taking offers around the £500 mark for you're engine i doubt i could afford it!
i want to build it myself anyway because im planning on opening my own garage in a few years

9th June 2009, 23:41

give it to him for free go on

9th June 2009, 23:47

lol add an other 0 to that offer

a 200@ wheels saxo is very fast on the road but would say go s/c rather that turbo, get a much better power delivery from the supercharger.

9th June 2009, 23:50

how much 4 supercharger

9th June 2009, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

how much 4 supercharger

Charger is 1600 new thats the supercharger, oil cooler, oil pipes, and oil,

Then you still need all the other bits,

10th June 2009, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dboyvts

Charger is 1600 new thats the supercharger, oil cooler, oil pipes, and oil,

Then you still need all the other bits,

OY.... you need to get in touch with me if you think about selling your engine

10th June 2009, 00:15

and other bits are?

10th June 2009, 00:15

Danny you know you have first refusals on my engine if and when its for sale..

10th June 2009, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harv

n/a to get 200bhp your looking at near enough 10k spent on the engine mate

.

10K? for only 200bhp?

Realllyyyy?

jesus... thats alot of money! lol

10th June 2009, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmthboi08

10K? for only 200bhp?

Realllyyyy?

jesus... thats alot of money! lol

its not as easy as people think to acheive big power

having said that, 200bhp in a properly stripped saxo would be very quick and could p**s on a lot of "faster" cars on track, providing everythings been done correctly

oh and thats £10k just on the engine, id assume not including the cost of brakes, suspension, cage, buckets etc etc

10th June 2009, 09:22

you can get 260bhp out of a vts engine if you spend £4000 on a turbo.

10th June 2009, 09:25

What would nos get you, could u peak at 200bhp?

10th June 2009, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashleyp

its not as easy as people think to acheive big power

having said that, 200bhp in a properly stripped saxo would be very quick and could p**s on a lot of "faster" cars on track, providing everythings been done correctly

oh and thats £10k just on the engine, id assume not including the cost of brakes, suspension, cage, buckets etc etc

In a VTS on boost I Imagine you could probably hit 200bhp on a smaller budget than you'd think. But to get everything right - EG Chassis Strengthening, decent suspension and brake setups, maybe an LSD If it's for track use, this will soon round it up.

It's when you go NA Spec trying to get 200bhp that the big money is needed. Like it or not, there becomes a point where boost is no longer "the expensive option" and becomes "the cheaper option".

10th June 2009, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

why not daily??

Because with a n/a engine, generally you need more revs, and once tuned to make high power, a 1.6 n/a will have a small power band. So then you need a gear box to keep it on the boil so to say. And to go anywhere you have to rev it like a mo fo so generally rules out the car as a nice daily driver.
I believe bic made around 200 horses on his 1.6 with a fairly big budget.

Regarding turbo's, a td04 turbo would easily give you the 200 horses you are looking for, although these are not a common turbo in the french scene I don't think. Only ever heard of them in the starlet scene. A t3 definately would flow that although I think it might be a bit big for the 16v engine, depends on the characteristics of car you want. If you want major power you will need the engine sorted to take it and odds are will have some lag until you hit boost.

Most starlets run about 200-220 ponys on the td04 at 1 bar, hopefully my hybrid td04 should be a bit more than that

10th June 2009, 10:35

200bhp from a normal aspirated VTS would be ripping the guts out of it. The engine would require constant servicing and even then have a relatively short life. The cost involved for making the engine alone would be considerable as it would really be quite a radical engine. It would also all be a little pointless unless you spend the cash on a close ratio gearbox. This setup would also drink fuel as a every day car even if you were to drive slowly.

Boost would be a far better option like most people have said. You only need a small turbo like a GT25r or TD04. You could use standard box though a LSD would be preferable. It will work out a cheaper and more relabel option if done well. Its the practical option to boot as when driving slow you effectively almost have a standard car so you get very good fuel economy.

Other option would be to just stick a bigger engine in. For reliability and practicality this is by far the best option. If you can do it your self its the cheapest option as well. Though the skills in involved make most people have to pay some one to do this and this makes it expensive.

10th June 2009, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidandrews5343

What would nos get you, could u peak at 200bhp?

a vts with breathing mods and a WON 75bhp shot could see the 200bhp mark. IF it was set up perfectly.

mine saw 185.6 bhp about 10 months ago, with a 50bhp shot that wasn't set up properly. it was 149bhp without the nitrous.

10th June 2009, 14:04

so 120 bhp standard.
then best cams to get for boost??
1
2
3

best remap
1

best decat
1
2

best exhaust
1
2

best maifold 4-2-1
1
2
3

10th June 2009, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

so 120 bhp standard.
then best cams to get for boost??
1
2
3

best remap
1

best decat
1
2

best exhaust
1
2

best maifold 4-2-1
1
2
3

It doesnt work like that. You use components depending on the spec you are building. So a manifold with X size bore might be great for 1 set up but shit for another. You have to spec and engine from sperate components that will work together.

Thus there is no best for all

10th June 2009, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

It doesnt work like that. You use components depending on the spec you are building. So a manifold with X size bore might be great for 1 set up but shit for another. You have to spec and engine from sperate components that will work together.

Thus there is no best for all

yeah i get you
well ok would this work
120bhp standard.
cams?
then remap
and finally exhaust.
for most power what bhp would you get using(whatever brand)

10th June 2009, 14:13

why would you want to remap for cams and then fit an exhaust?

A vts with cams which are designed to run on an OE inlet manifold will see between 145-155really depending on how wild they are.

10th June 2009, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

why would you want to remap for cams and then fit an exhaust?

A vts with cams which are designed to run on an OE inlet manifold will see between 145-155really depending on how wild they are.

well im not 100% in which oreder they should be fitted other than cams 1st and then remap.
exhaust needed/not needed?

10th June 2009, 14:21

you want to have the exhaust you are going to be running for mapping imo.

Especially if you currently have an OE exhaust, do the breathing mods first, then chuck cams in and map it up

10th June 2009, 14:22

The best way to get 200bhp, is to buy a car with 200bhp. End of story. The best way to get 200bhp out of a VTS, well as everyone has said, it's going to be expensive, but if throwing money at mods isn't a concern, go for it.

10th June 2009, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlambert

well im not 100% in which oreder they should be fitted other than cams 1st and then remap.
exhaust needed/not needed?

If you're fitting an exhaust there's no point in re-mapping the engine to run with cams when you've got the standard exhaust on, because it will then need another re-map to run properly with the new exhaust.

Less restrictive exhaust is obviously preferrable to give you more power.

10th June 2009, 14:31

yeah i get you. makes sense

10th June 2009, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

why how many have you driven? they dont have too much power at all

I own a Vxr Astra and I have to say it is like sh#t off a stick, hard to keep the speed legal lol. Drives amazing, dont balieve what programmes like top gear say about them.

10th June 2009, 16:05

Ye not there crap but they are hugely fun on track lol. Tbh i'm with Spider on this one, buy a car with 200bhp so you can mod that for less than modding a Saxo to 200bhp. Don't go mad but what about a 180SX

lol.

10th June 2009, 16:40

Sometimes its more fun to not go and buy a car with 200bhp, and then really upset the owners of those cars when you shit on them in a saxo on track

10th June 2009, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Sometimes its more fun to not go and buy a car with 200bhp, and then really upset the owners of those cars when you shit on them in a saxo on track

such as vshit-tec and jc

10th June 2009, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderz

I own a Vxr Astra and I have to say it is like sh#t off a stick, hard to keep the speed legal lol. Drives amazing, dont balieve what programmes like top gear say about them.

at some point you reach a bend though...

10th June 2009, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxo_Scott

such as vshit-tec and jc

Vtec cars dont seem to be much fun, they just hold you up

Its more fun playing with 4wd turbo JC

10th June 2009, 16:46

without sounding daft, would it not be cheaper instead of taking the vts engine up to 200 bhp, transplant a gti-6 lump, a few breathing mods and a set of cams should well see into the 200 bhp region. apologies if it already has been suggested!!

10th June 2009, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Sometimes its more fun to not go and buy a car with 200bhp, and then really upset the owners of those cars when you shit on them in a saxo on track

Amen. This is how one of the greatest 90's cars - The 205 - made it's name. Dicking on bigger power and bigger engined cars round the tracks.

10th June 2009, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by fergy7197

without sounding daft, would it not be cheaper instead of taking the vts engine up to 200 bhp, transplant a gti-6 lump, a few breathing mods and a set of cams should well see into the 200 bhp region. apologies if it already has been suggested!!

Depends how good you are with fabricating stuff, If not then the costs for this are still spiraling.

10th June 2009, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Depends how good you are with fabricating stuff, If not then the costs for this are still spiraling.

is it a hoor of a conversion?

10th June 2009, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by fergy7197

is it a hoor of a conversion?

Hoor???

Its not easy, needs alot of fabricating for engine mounts, then sorting loom, driveshafts/hubs, cant really use the 6speed gearbox unless you want to sacrafice a few things etc...

However when done correctly they are fucking rapid

10th June 2009, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fergy7197

without sounding daft, would it not be cheaper instead of taking the vts engine up to 200 bhp, transplant a gti-6 lump, a few breathing mods and a set of cams should well see into the 200 bhp region. apologies if it already has been suggested!!

Probably not. The 2.0 lump would most likely require chassis strengthening, and the weight would make it almost counter productive.

10th June 2009, 16:58

Its not really a difficult conversion, but figuring out the exhaust manifold and wiring is the biggest challenge. Personally I'd run it on an aftermarket ecu to make life easier. Forget the 6 speed box. I fitted one to my 205 many years ago and it was too heavy and too big and a 205 1.9 box with a 205 1.6 final drive gave as much fun and acceleration.
You then have to worry about driveshafts. Cheapest route is to get a BE3 driveshaft and a 106 one and cut and sleeve the two together. Not sure whether the inner arch will need a bit of welding but thats cheap in the grand scheme of things.

Kev

10th June 2009, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Hoor???

Its not easy, needs alot of fabricating for engine mounts, then sorting loom, driveshafts/hubs, cant really use the 6speed gearbox unless you want to sacrafice a few things etc...

However when done correctly they are fucking rapid

hoor, means a bugger of a conversion where I come from!!

hmm from reading what was said there and using the search button (i know your amased), its seems a bit of work, well thatsthat plan out of the window!

10th June 2009, 17:05

Best way to achieve 200BHP is to have one of these stickers:

10th June 2009, 23:13

Lol. Hell if you want to go for broke buy a V8 and shove it in the boot and lose the space, handling, rear seats and just go nuts

lol

10th June 2009, 23:47

or save for a bugatti?