E85 normally aspirated conversion

17th June 2009, 15:27

Hi all,
Has anyone done a bioethanol conversion to a Saxo VTS?
I'm working on one at the moment and just wanted to see if anyone has had success.
Regards,
Will

17th June 2009, 15:29

Sorry, should have said - by bioethanol, I mean E85 - 85% bioethanol (Carbohydrate or Lactose derived) and 15% normal unleaded gasoline

17th June 2009, 21:48

you are the first one, let us know if any power is gained

18th June 2009, 10:17

Sounds like a biggie! Nobody has done one that I know of mate, be interested to see what the results are.

18th June 2009, 10:22

Could be the future of the saxo, will love to see it working

18th June 2009, 10:33

hi, sounds awesome (I'm bookmarking this thread)... what are your plans as part of the conversion... B85 eats alloys like a girl will eat chocolate cake, the block itself should be ok, although I'm not so sure the material used for the cylinder liners

Good luck with it all!

18th June 2009, 15:15

Hi all,

Glad to see that there is some interest in this.
Thought it would be a good start to list some Facts, pros, cons and myths about bioethanol

Stuff you need to know:
Bioethanol is cheap - I can buy it here in Dublin for about 1 euro/litre (about 85p)
It has an octane rating of 104RON (Lactose derived) and up to 110 RON (Corn/Starch derived) when mixed with 15% unleaded (E85)
It burns alot cleaner than oil based petrol
It requires a 9.7:1 air fuel ratio for complete burn instead of 14.7:1 for petrol
It eats away at buna-N rubber (old seals, fuel lines and tank insulation)
It does not eat Nitrile rubber (modern seals)
It can be difficult to ignite at low temperatures (below 5 degress C)
It is easier to light at low temps when mixed with 15% standard unleaded petrol (as in E85)
If you put E85 into a standard petrol car it will run very lean if at all and will not last long before fairly severe damage occurs.
E85 is water soluble - so it will "weaken" if left in the tank for too long - unleass you have a valve on your tank breather and return line.
Because of the difference in air fuel ratios - you will have to inject 1.51 times the amount of E85 to petrol to get the same burn.
Due to the very very high octane rating you can run up to 14:1 compression ratio and tons of ignition advance - which in turn massively raises the maximum cylinder pressures - equalling more power! (as work done = pressure x volume >>> Power=pv)

Conversions:
There are two ways to convert. You can do it the cheap, loads of compremises, low performance way - get a "E85 Tuning box" that plugs in between the ECU and injectors. This simply pushes the injector duty up to 100% and widens the pulse band so the maximum amout of fuel gets into the cylinders - some of the better ones also advance the ignition pulse to the coil. - NOT RECOMMENDED

The other way (THE BEST WAY) (MY WAY) is to do it properly and build an engine spec especially for the fuel.
12:1 pistons (highest I could find! ???)
larger injectors and adjusted fuel pressure regulator
remapped ECU
Kent race cams
Might go with those new AT Power throttle bodies
PTFE lined braided fuel hoses
Valve on fuel return line and tank breather (may not be necessary)

Had the engine running on 102 octane race fuel and it's dyno'd at 190 bhp.
I'm hoping for 200+ with E85

The injectors should arrive next week and it'll be remapped as soon as I can get it booked in.

18th June 2009, 16:19

Im keeping my eye on this....

18th June 2009, 16:24

sounds very interesting. Are you in a competative form of motorsport thus where regulations allow less strict rules for running a certain fuel mix?

18th June 2009, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy555

Had the engine running on 102 octane race fuel and it's dyno'd at 190 bhp.
I'm hoping for 200+ with E85

Should have said that this is with the same engine spec as above but using standard intake system except peugeot sport ram induction pipe, Ashley competition exhaust system, and 283cc injectors (Clio 172 injectors with torquise band on them)

18th June 2009, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

sounds very interesting. Are you in a competative form of motorsport thus where regulations allow less strict rules for running a certain fuel mix?

It is primarily for motorsport (tarmac rallying) but with the massive decrease in emissions there is no reason why you couldn't do it to a rad car. For the class that I am in, I can run 95 unleaded, 97 unleaded/optimax, Tesco 99 (5% bioethanol, E85 (85% bioehanol), Carless, WRF, Elf TurboMax - really anything as long as I'm not brewing it myself

24th June 2009, 08:26

Got new injectors and fuel pressure regulator fitted last night and she started up first time on E85. Idle is very "lumpy" as the large injectors aren't atomising correctly at very low speeds - they'll be fine once mapped correctly.

Idling sounds awesome - like a proper race engine. Getting mapping done next week

24th June 2009, 09:27

we need pics!!!! awesome stuff though!

29th July 2009, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy555

Got new injectors and fuel pressure regulator fitted last night and she started up first time on E85. Idle is very "lumpy" as the large injectors aren't atomising correctly at very low speeds - they'll be fine once mapped correctly.

Idling sounds awesome - like a proper race engine. Getting mapping done next week

any update? i am looking to run my track car on this and I am very interested in how you got on

29th July 2009, 11:46

Will be keeping an eye on this.