turbo saxo project LOOK!!! NEED HELP!!!!

  1. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #1
    hello peeps jst to let sum ppl no im in the middle ov turboing my vtr
    i have got:
    THE TURBO N MANIFOLD TO FIT(TURBO OFF 306 D TURBO) £40
    ALL THE BOOST PIPES £free
    INTERCOOLER £free one off my dads rs turbo
    OIL COOLER £free
    DUMP VALVE £free

    N i jst need to sort the oil return out n the oil feed n get an exhaust made from the turbo to the link pipe which i can get done @ work 4 free like i have had all the boost pipes @ work done n the manifold adapted to hold turbo

    i jst want to no what else i need
    do i need a decomp plate?
    n could i just remap the ecu instead off runnin a 5th injector?
    what boost do u think is a reasonable boost to run?

    much appreciate it if you could help me out
  2. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Kent Posts: 2653 1.6 16v C2 GT
    #2
    Get some pictures up.

    Don't know how suitable the turbo will be because it was made for a diesel it will kick in, in the lower rev range.

    You need the 5th injector yes.

    As far as i know you can't remap the existing ecu for a turbo setup. Standalone is the way forward.
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  3. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #3
    i will get some pics up soon the turbo still at work n some one i no used an escort diesal turbo n it worked ok, n what is a standalone?
  4. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Oxfordshire - Banbury Posts: 713 S1 Rallye
    #4
    I thought the 5th injector was optional
    And I think it is now supposedly possible to have a standard ECU remapped for the turbo setups, but not proven to work as of yet.
  5. Established Member Joined: Apr 2009 just aroon the corner Posts: 1509 Audi S5, Corsa, Defender 90 CSW
    #5
    its a mappable setup ecu, will prob be the most exspensive part for your build going down the route you are
  6. Established Member Joined: May 2009 Ellesmere (Shropshire) Posts: 1044 superchared 106 gti
    #6
    stanalone ecu is a seperate unit used to well run the engine it takes over from the standard ecu and is easily mapped and offers a more precise mapping format usually
  7. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #7
    i didnt think u needed the 5th injector and i will ask around some garages about the ecu remap
  8. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #8
    how much would the standalone cost me and where could i get 1 from n if i did put one ov these on would i need to put owt else on wiv it n wher about do u put the standalone
  9. Established Member Joined: May 2009 Ellesmere (Shropshire) Posts: 1044 superchared 106 gti
    #9
    if you are going standalone then no you dont need a 5th injector but for this build i suggest using one as unless you want to spend alot of dollar in the long run
  10. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Kent Posts: 2653 1.6 16v C2 GT
    #10
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    i will get some pics up soon the turbo still at work n some one i no used an escort diesal turbo n it worked ok, n what is a standalone?

    I just think the turbo might feel a bit sluggish and restrictive after certain rpm.

    Standalone ECU - It's basically to control key diagnostics of the car, correct fueling is paramount so you will need that ECU to be mapped to control the fuel timing for your turbo set up.

    Also as far as i know the Original saxo ecu has been remapped to control bodies, but as far as i know there hasn't be a turbo sax with standard ecu.
  11. Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Oxfordshire - Banbury Posts: 713 S1 Rallye
    #11
    Replaces the OE ECU. Brands to look out for, Predator Ecu (Not yet developed for VTR), Emerald, and more.
  12. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #12
    so you suggest i use a 5th injector??
    has any1 got one 4 sale???
  13. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Kent Posts: 2653 1.6 16v C2 GT
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    so you suggest i use a 5th injector??
    has any1 got one 4 sale???
    iirc there not too expensive, it's getting them to fit which is a bitch?
  14. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #14
    why wt do u need 2 do to make thm fit n would i need a decomp plate on it??
  15. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Kent Posts: 2653 1.6 16v C2 GT
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    why wt do u need 2 do to make thm fit n would i need a decomp plate on it??
    Something to do with the rail it's attached too, can't remember exactly.
  16. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #16
    ok m8, do i need 2 put a de comp plate on the car when its turbo'd?
  17. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #17
    diesel turbo on a petrol car? oh dear, talk about a bodge job.
  18. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #18
    n do u think 6psi boost will be ok or could u run it alot bit mor thn tht?
  19. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #19
    why is it a bodge job there has been a few saxo turbo'd usin diesel turbo if u look rnd lad 1 ov my m8's used a diesel 1 n it was finee2
  20. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Kent Posts: 2653 1.6 16v C2 GT
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    n do u think 6psi boost will be ok or could u run it alot bit mor thn tht?
    Don't know dude, depends on how the diesel turbos going to perform in the first place mate.
  21. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2007 Chesterfield Posts: 8935 Ibiza Cupra 204bhp
    #21
    You need a petrol turbo for a petrol car.. not a diesel.. it won't work. Decompression plate is needed. To sort out the fuelling, 5th injector, mf2 device. And then a remap to sort out timing etc. Or, you can by a standalone management such as the predator on here.
    Turbo'ing isn't a cheap job, and if you find it is, your either missing something or its as simple as; its shit.

    Good luck
  22. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #22
    ive aked around some garages tht do all shit like this n they sed it shud be ok n boost or8 as lng as there no leaks in the boost pipes
  23. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    why is it a bodge job there has been a few saxo turbo'd usin diesel turbo if u look rnd lad 1 ov my m8's used a diesel 1 n it was finee2
    diesel turbos are designed for the characteristics of a diesel engine, which is completely different to that of a petrol. the cars you have mentioned are bodges then. compare them to a turbo'd saxo using a petrol turbo and there will be massive differences.
  24. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi
    #24
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    ive aked around some garages tht do all shit like this n they sed it shud be ok n boost or8 as lng as there no leaks in the boost pipes
    gasses from a petrol engine dont agree with diesel turbo's either.
  25. Established Member Joined: May 2009 Ellesmere (Shropshire) Posts: 1044 superchared 106 gti
    #25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    n do u think 6psi boost will be ok or could u run it alot bit mor thn tht?
    ive seen 306 d turbs boosting to well over 20psi so there is potential for it i just dont know how well it will perform on the petrol?? because this is reached at 4000rpm on some 306s and well this turbo will be workin over time at 6k wont it??
  26. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #26
    yea i no wt ya all sayin bt my m8's worked ok n he was runnin around 7psi wiv his n it boosted ok n holded its boost aswell
  27. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Kent Posts: 2653 1.6 16v C2 GT
    #27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    yea i no wt ya all sayin bt my m8's worked ok n he was runnin around 7psi wiv his n it boosted ok n holded its boost aswell
    Which car, which turbo?
  28. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2007 Chesterfield Posts: 8935 Ibiza Cupra 204bhp
    #28
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    yea i no wt ya all sayin bt my m8's worked ok n he was runnin around 7psi wiv his n it boosted ok n holded its boost aswell
    and what bhp is it pushing? 110 ? and 98bhp standard lol?
  29. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #29
    no lad its a vtr with escort diesel turbo on n nt sure ov bhp but its fukin fast
  30. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #30
    screw the lot of that I ran 1 bar and had stupid power and did it half properly to lol see next project 1.1 16v turbo haha
  31. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Kent Posts: 2653 1.6 16v C2 GT
    #31
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    no lad its a vtr with escort diesel turbo on n nt sure ov bhp but its fukin fast
    I could see that it has a little bit of a low down grunt just based on the charecteristics of diesel turbos.. but i can only imangine his rev range is limited to like 5/6 k?
  32. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 Posts: 4857
    #32
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    THE TURBO N MANIFOLD TO FIT(TURBO OFF 306 D TURBO) £40
    The manifold will not fit off the 306 and unless your planning on turbo charging a Saxo 1.5 diesel that turbo will be nest to useless.
  33. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #33
    well it all works ok n he nt had any problems yet thts wer i got idea from with the turbo
  34. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #34
    we have used a sxo manifold and adapted it to hold the 306turbo
  35. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2007 warrington Posts: 722 saxo vts turbo
    #35
    m8 dont use a diesel turbo there no good for petrol engines made out of different stuff the bearing wont take it and the fith injector is needed with 2 bar map and mf2. get a t25 garrett to
  36. Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2008 dunstable Posts: 111 Saxo vtr phase 1 in white
    #36
    to clarify the arguement above,
    basically only certain diesel turbos will work because a diesel engine doesnt have a throttle plate the inlet manifold is open all the way to the cylinders, the engine speed is determined by the amount of diesel injected so the turbo on a diesel never sees any vacuum from the engine.
    However a petrol turbo is subjected to high vacuum in the turbo housing when the throttle is closed, to compensate for this vacuum a petrol turbo has an extra oil seal on the compresser side to stop the oil being sucked out and into the engine, most of the older diesel turbos do not have this extra seal so the vaccumm created by the throttle closing will suck the oil out from the bearings and into the engine, so just make sure you get the right turbo one that has the same characteristics as a petrol turbo and it will work fine.
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  37. Established Member Joined: Feb 2009 ★ West / North Yorkshire ★ Posts: 1653
    #37
    Sorryyyyyyyy, but hopefully I cant be the only one reading this thinking 5th injector in a 4 cylinder engine?? Where does that go then? What the hell is a decompression plate?
  38. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2007 East Grinstead - West Sussex Posts: 3094 BMW E46 M3
    #38
    Cant understand a word your saying

    Or

    CNT UNDRZ STND A WRD UZ IZ SYIN
    2 users thanked this post: ,
  39. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2007 warrington Posts: 722 saxo vts turbo
    #39
    outrage ........maybe read a little more before posting. the fith injector go before the throttle body on the inlet pipe . it dont matter having 4 cylinders its just extra juice to feed them all and a decomp plate lowers compression with is like in simple terms a big fat head gasket
  40. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2007 warrington Posts: 722 saxo vts turbo
    #40
    you are getting loads of advive but dont seem to be taking it in post back when your diesel turbo melts down or even worse smashes a hole in your block
  41. Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5
    #41
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Matt67 View Post
    Get some pictures up.

    Don't know how suitable the turbo will be because it was made for a diesel it will kick in, in the lower rev range.

    You need the 5th injector yes.

    As far as i know you can't remap the existing ecu for a turbo setup. Standalone is the way forward.
    Standard ecu can be used, but its tricky and for the trouble most people buy a standalone. Its a shame though, with a bit of development money somebody could knock out a really cheap low boost kit. Standard ecu, saab turbo map sensor, clio 172 injectors and a 4bar audi 20v turbo fpr and thats your fueling sorted
  42. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Kent Posts: 2653 1.6 16v C2 GT
    #42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ryanmt View Post
    Standard ecu can be used, but its tricky and for the trouble most people buy a standalone. Its a shame though, with a bit of development money somebody could knock out a really cheap low boost kit. Standard ecu, saab turbo map sensor, clio 172 injectors and a 4bar audi 20v turbo fpr and thats your fueling sorted
    Don't the 172 injectors cost a small fortune though? Also never heard of an Audi turbo being used. Has it brought good results?
  43. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #43
    audi turbo is a decent new gen one very good results can be had 172/182 injectors ntot hat expensive about 70-100
  44. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djdanman View Post
    to clarify the arguement above,
    basically only certain diesel turbos will work because a diesel engine doesnt have a throttle plate the inlet manifold is open all the way to the cylinders, the engine speed is determined by the amount of diesel injected so the turbo on a diesel never sees any vacuum from the engine.
    However a petrol turbo is subjected to high vacuum in the turbo housing when the throttle is closed, to compensate for this vacuum a petrol turbo has an extra oil seal on the compresser side to stop the oil being sucked out and into the engine, most of the older diesel turbos do not have this extra seal so the vaccumm created by the throttle closing will suck the oil out from the bearings and into the engine, so just make sure you get the right turbo one that has the same characteristics as a petrol turbo and it will work fine.
    at least sum1 no's wt there tlkin about lol ive had it bolted on 2day n it was workin or8 bt didnt leave it on long as i have loads left to do lol and its off a 2000 306 so it shud be ok shunt it
  45. Established Member Joined: Jul 2008 chesterfield. tupton Posts: 1501 saxo vtr escort rs
    #45
    wot? type in properly not txt chat buddy.
  46. Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2008 dunstable Posts: 111 Saxo vtr phase 1 in white
    #46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chez91 View Post
    at least sum1 no's wt there tlkin about lol ive had it bolted on 2day n it was workin or8 bt didnt leave it on long as i have loads left to do lol and its off a 2000 306 so it shud be ok shunt it
    thats cool mate lol if you check the turbo housing on the compresser side the bearings should be completely sealed that is what you are looking for if not the turbo will still work fine just you will be sucking oil into the combustion chamber which will cause a lot of smoke and in the long term damage to the engine, the newer diesel turbos are very strong and powerful and share the same characteristics as petrol turbos, the one you mentioned should be fine just check and make sure first...
  47. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 Posts: 4857
    #47
    Many of the Audi turbos are a really daft shape that can prove problematic. They often have the exhaust manifold cast in to the turbo it self. Many have daft long alloy comp outlets that can be a pain. Also many have quite uncommon stud pattens. So be careful before spending cash on one.

    The diesel ones are also defiantly diesel only and accounting to the manufacture specs do not even come close to working at the required operating temperature for a petrol engine. I don't know how long would last if you did try it but I would Imagen not long. So best to stick with the petrol units.

    Anything with variable geometry can be a pain to work with as well. I know a few of the models did come with this but there probably best to avoid. Same goes for any with a solenoid actuated wastegate however I have not seen one on a Audi yet but there bound to be in some models.

    Dont let me put you off a turbo from a Audi can be a good one to go for just Just have a good look at the turbo and its spec before parting with your cash.
  48. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.
    #48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williamsvts View Post
    diesel turbo on a petrol car? oh dear, talk about a bodge job.
    The turbo`s designed for a DIESEL it won`t run properly the performance will be down etc try it by all means just some friendly advice.


    Steve.
  49. Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5
    #49
    i ment the audi FPR not the turbo. the fpr fits straight into a vts rail and its 4 bar so gives you more flow

    clio injectors are quite easy to come across since they soon max out when people take their clios above 200bhp so they get upgraded + sold on

    I bought one set for a tenner and another for 20 off cliosport
  50. Newbie Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 27
    #50
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ryanmt View Post
    i ment the audi FPR not the turbo. the fpr fits straight into a vts rail and its 4 bar so gives you more flow

    clio injectors are quite easy to come across since they soon max out when people take their clios above 200bhp so they get upgraded + sold on

    I bought one set for a tenner and another for 20 off cliosport
    wt clio do you take them off m8 n is it a big job to fit them 2 the vtr???
  51. Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5
    #51
    Vtr use different injectors. The vts uses picos, if you want to upgrade the vtr you can look at the other 2.0 TU's etc. Dont mess with the fpr or injectors without having a remapped ecu though. Youll just end up with the fueling all over the show
  52. Established Member Joined: Dec 2004 Derby Posts: 1945 Pug 207
    #52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ryanmt View Post
    i ment the audi FPR not the turbo. the fpr fits straight into a vts rail and its 4 bar so gives you more flow

    clio injectors are quite easy to come across since they soon max out when people take their clios above 200bhp so they get upgraded + sold on

    I bought one set for a tenner and another for 20 off cliosport
    How cheap did you get them injectors LOL, you'll have to drop me a PM if you come across another set around that figure

    Which audi did the 4bar fpr come from also.

    I'm gathering bits for my low boost setup now so any help will be appreciated.

    Many thanks.
  53. Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5
    #53
    any 20vT has the 4fpr
  54. Established Member Joined: Feb 2007 manchester Posts: 1704 vtr turbo
    #54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Matt67 View Post
    Don't the 172 injectors cost a small fortune though? Also never heard of an Audi turbo being used. Has it brought good results?
    Im using the turbo of a 1.8 20v on mine, its fairly small but very capable
  55. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2007 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 9578 Saxo VTS
    #55
    diesel turbos spool totaly different to a petrol one....

    was told this last night from a very reliable source!
  56. Established Member Joined: Apr 2009 just aroon the corner Posts: 1509 Audi S5, Corsa, Defender 90 CSW
    #56
    i would also agree, a diesel turbo could be used for a laugh, but if ur after any sort of results, there a no go area, they cant take the heat, and will fuck very soon
  57. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B
    #57
    am i the only 1 here that hinks that this set up will fail miserably? not to put a damper on things mate but if you dont know how to change a set of injecotrs how are you going to fit and set up a turbo? theres a hell of alot more involved them just bolting on some boost pipes and and an adapted mani and turbo unit, but on a more enthusiastic note i have a decomp plate brand new and a sigcon2 for sale which are used with the mf2 and fifth injectore set up, pm me if interested
  58. Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 Coventry CV6 Posts: 2477 Slowda Octavia vRS SOLD - Cam'd Chip'd VTR
    #58
    Hi mate, currently i drive a 306 Diesel Turbo, just to let you know, your turbo at 6psi is going to feel like shit, off boost will be so laggy.. DT's as standard run around 13psi which is fairly high, ive tuned mine to 18psi and it still doesn't boost very hard. Because it's a diesel turbo it works better with diesel engine characteristics. i.e. lots of torque so when off boost there is still pull. However in a petrol I can't see this working
  59. Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 keswick Posts: 1166 Clio 197
    #59
    If you want it turbo'd listen to the advice your being given and do the job properly. I had mine done profesionaly and it still ran like shit until i got fueling sorted with a stand alone. If you actualy decide to put some real money into this project take your car down to Andy and get a predator put on. Its worth doing it right as the benifits will be much better and you want end up scrapping the car a week later when the turbo blows.
  60. Established Member Joined: Jan 2009 luton Posts: 1013 saxo vtr turbo
    #60
    mate, take peoples advice other wise u will end up spending more than you need to. do it properly the 1st time. i have just fitted a t2 to my vtr with 2 bar map sensor, mf2, fith injector. i done the lott my self but still dont think its running as it should be. ill be gettin my front mount intercooler at end of july then take it to cituning to get it checked and remaped. i got all my parts cheap so wasnt too bad. im hopin for 180 bhp dont no if thts possible or a dream? but if it fails then ill be goin for the standalone ecu, bigger injectors and a higher map sensor. when i started mine it was 1 thing after another after another so go all out and do it right 1st time!
  61. Established Member Joined: Jan 2009 luton Posts: 1013 saxo vtr turbo
    #61
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackie_2k5 View Post
    am i the only 1 here that hinks that this set up will fail miserably? not to put a damper on things mate but if you dont know how to change a set of injecotrs how are you going to fit and set up a turbo? theres a hell of alot more involved them just bolting on some boost pipes and and an adapted mani and turbo unit, but on a more enthusiastic note i have a decomp plate brand new and a sigcon2 for sale which are used with the mf2 and fifth injectore set up, pm me if interested
    do you still have the decomp plate? if so how much do you want for it?
  62. Infrequent Poster Joined: May 2009 Croydon Posts: 144 SAXO VTS :),VW GOLF MK4, PUNTO HGT
    #62
    how much you pay for your fiesta
  63. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2006 walsall Posts: 340 saxo vts- rwd conversion/ subaru wrx
    #63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ryanmt View Post
    Standard ecu can be used, but its tricky and for the trouble most people buy a standalone. Its a shame though, with a bit of development money somebody could knock out a really cheap low boost kit. Standard ecu, saab turbo map sensor, clio 172 injectors and a 4bar audi 20v turbo fpr and thats your fueling sorted

    if you want to make a low boost setup is would be easyer to use another ecu off a diff turbo car and just make a loom convertor plug it in and woooosh.
    adam