Bodies, Multiple Trumpet Lengths? Updated

30th June 2009, 20:40

Righto. Finally got round to cleaning the bodies up.

Now im going to order some replacement air horns/trumpets. Just wondered what sizes are reccomended,if they do different sizes? Have seen some with an airbox over the bodies, does this go over the trumpets or replace them? Think im going to put socks over them tbh. Can take them off easy and show them off then.

So basically going to order them tomorrow and want a heads up before i get bamboozled on the phone as to what there is available/what will be best.

Cheers. OLi

30th June 2009, 20:43

Different lengths give different power/torque/delivery I believe, so you're likely to get a range of answers.

30th June 2009, 20:45

non cut scuttle 60mm horns
cut scuttle 90mm horns
cut scuttle with lhd wiper mech 120mm horns

thats what id be aiming for.

30th June 2009, 20:45

90mm iirc will just about fit without bulkhead choppage but is very tight from memory.

30th June 2009, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

90mm iirc will just about fit without bulkhead choppage but is very tight from memory.

if its fits and if its effective could be very different answers.

you need space around the trumpets for them to work properly, its all to do with pulsing.

30th June 2009, 20:50

Ok The engine its being run on was on 60mm before, and made 151 atw. What would the longer trumpets alter? Would they give more torque lower down the revs or visa-versa? 60mm sounds easy tbh

30th June 2009, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

if its fits and if its effective could be very different answers.

you need space around the trumpets for them to work properly, its all to do with pulsing.

Would be worth cutting the scuttle, running 90mm trumpets to get the best out of the 734's?

60mm sounds an easier option in terms of ease of fitting?

30th June 2009, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Would be worth cutting the scuttle, running 90mm trumpets to get the best out of the 734's?

60mm sounds an easier option in terms of ease of fitting?

yeah thats the idea. Plus itll be easier to get more airflow to them maybe?

Anyone tested the difference between different sizes?

30th June 2009, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by sax-oli

Ok The engine its being run on was on 60mm before, and made 151 atw. What would the longer trumpets alter? Would they give more torque lower down the revs or visa-versa? 60mm sounds easy tbh

if its 151 atw then id change NOTHING as thats mighty impressive....maybe more power than ryans engine??

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Would be worth cutting the scuttle, running 90mm trumpets to get the best out of the 734's?

60mm sounds an easier option in terms of ease of fitting?

from all the tb'd engines ive ever seen or heard of, longer tract length always improves things everywhere in the rev range....when you get high lift and large overlaps then you may cap power slightly with very very long items but you could never fit the lenghts im talking about on a saxo.....thats why i always say to go as long as possible.

30th June 2009, 21:04

Danny its craigs old engine,(gmc rollers) Still was a fantastic engine when made (did you see craigs red 106???).

As for the question on an airbox, you run short trumpets inside an airbox, you dont run without trumpets

30th June 2009, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Danny its craigs old engine,(gmc rollers) Still was a fantastic engine when made (did you see craigs red 106???).

As for the question on an airbox, you run short trumpets inside an airbox, you dont run without trumpets

ahhh i remember now mate, cracking engine that...first one to run 734's iirc..
id keep the same trumpets on tbh... its not worth tarting around as its been mapped properly etc.

30th June 2009, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

ahhh i remember now mate, cracking engine that...first one to run 734's iirc..
id keep the same trumpets on tbh... its not worth tarting around as its been mapped properly etc.

Yep was first one on 734s. Most of the parts were sourced through QEP, but iirc craig did alot of the hard graft with building himself.

Was running KMS, mapped by John etc...

30th June 2009, 21:13

He's not got the ECU, so starting from scratch.

Oli, these bodies will take 90mm pipes and they will be right up against the scuttle. So 60mm if you want to run filters, or 90mm plus for no filter and no scuttle.

30th June 2009, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Oli, these bodies will take 90mm pipes and they will be right up against the scuttle. So 60mm if you want to run filters, or 90mm plus for no filter and no scuttle.

can still run filters on 90mm trumpets

My socks are not on because the cars not happy with them though. Id go 90 if starting with no map.

30th June 2009, 21:15

LOl take it GMC rollers are renound for something then Ryan?

Itll be on the predator ecu when it arrives I think as i dont have the KMS craig was using. Unless i get a few cash jobs in and then who knows.

Ill keep the 60mm trumpets then. And filter sock over them. Dont fancy runnign it without them.

30th June 2009, 21:16

ive got a filter at work that will fit over 120mm trumpets

if hes mapping it again, id say 90-120mm with cut scuttle.... its a recipe for power and noise

30th June 2009, 21:17

GMC = one of the few companies able to map some cars that have been royally rogered by other tuners. Just dont take the figures as the bible.

Joshs saxo for example hasnt made the power it made on johns rollers else where I belive, it still runs very well in the real world though.

So dont get stressed if when you get it built up and running again and it only makes 140/145 atw for example, dont go panicing its fucked etc.....

We all know figures are just figures, if it works and works well thats the main thing

30th June 2009, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

can still run filters on 90mm trumpets

Wash your mouth out young man! lol

Stop giving him bad ideas...

30th June 2009, 21:22

Righto im stuck betewwn 90 and 60, Dont really want to go anymore than 90 as the car seems to have ran well on 60mm so not really any need imo.

30th June 2009, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by sax-oli

Righto im stuck betewwn 90 and 60, Dont really want to go anymore than 90 as the car seems to have ran well on 60mm so not really any need imo.

Im running pugsport bodies (KMS are copies of these) + iirc 90mm. I cant measure them as the cars miles away.

30th June 2009, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

GMC = one of the few companies able to map some cars that have been royally rogered by other tuners. Just dont take the figures as the bible.

Joshs saxo for example hasnt made the power it made on johns rollers else where I belive, it still runs very well in the real world though.

So dont get stressed if when you get it built up and running again and it only makes 140/145 atw for example, dont go panicing its fucked etc.....

We all know figures are just figures, if it works and works well thats the main thing

Righto. Gonna get it on the stand in the coming week and take the head off and have a look at the bores. Also pop the sump off and look at a few of the bearing surfaces for wear see if its worth replacing. Maybe put it all into my bottom end, but dont know if the pistons are oversized or not yet. Shall see what its like first i guess. iirc his thread says he replace all the bearing etc late 06.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Wash your mouth out young man! lol

Stop giving him bad ideas...

Haha, dont dare run without any form of filter. Just madness

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

ive got a filter at work that will fit over 120mm trumpets

if hes mapping it again, id say 90-120mm with cut scuttle.... its a recipe for power and noise

Tis what its all about

30th June 2009, 21:56

if its about, it might be worth doing the bottom end bearings now just for the sake of saves you doing it in future.

Its not exactly had an easy life, its been built to be used and has been used properly

30th June 2009, 22:07

Ha ha ha my old engine still lives!!

Like ryan says it was built to be used an must say it got used!! Plus with the nos etc!!

How much you pay for it all mate pm me if ya dont wanna say.

30th June 2009, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Im running pugsport bodies (KMS are copies of these) + iirc 90mm. I cant measure them as the cars miles away.

Sweet. They must have cost a bit.

Tbh looks about right that. Very nice

Stuck between 60 and 90 atm. Shall probably go for the 90's though bigger seems beter from what you guys are saying

Ill try and ring up tomorrow and get them bought with the tps.

Where do i get the filter socks from? Suppose qep will supply one, but dont wanna get raped if they are gonna end up in the bin. still got urs Ryan?

30th June 2009, 22:14

carefull with sock filters as the lower quality ones have been known to be sucked down the tract...

30th June 2009, 22:16

I bought mine from Emerald they are iirc piper-X ones and they cost around £10 per sock + vat/del iirc

30th June 2009, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupra-Craig

Ha ha ha my old engine still lives!!

Like ryan says it was built to be used an must say it got used!! Plus with the nos etc!!

How much you pay for it all mate pm me if ya dont wanna say.

Did u get my PM dude?

Did you have the crank re-ground when you did the work, and also are the pistons oversize?

Didnt pay alot for it if im honest.

shall just say i wouldnt be near able to buy the cams with what i paid. Bodies were thrown if free too.

The lad that bought it off you is still paying for the car on finance.

30th June 2009, 22:39

bargain then, where the hell was it advertised lol?

30th June 2009, 22:43

No dude never got ya pm.

You got a bargin there then the engines goes well.

Ran a 13.1 at york with 25bhp nos an full interior.

Yeah the pistons are oversized cant remember how big may say in my old thread, if still about.

As for the crank it was just polished as there was no wear

30th June 2009, 22:50

haha that'dd be telling

tis the only reason im keeping it as its not alot of money sitting there. Wanted bodies since i first heard them and this will probably be the only chance i will get to have them. Why not.

30th June 2009, 22:53

Sweet Cheers. Says 79mm in your receipts craig, but is dodgy handwriting and just wondered if the person was being lazy. Thats a quick saxo/106 then. Cant wait tbh. Did you have a lsd on it?

30th June 2009, 22:54

lol you have bought it why does it matter saying where it was advertised as its not often bigger profile engines just dissapear off the scene.

30th June 2009, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by sax-oli

Says 79mm in your receipts craig, but is dodgy handwriting and just wondered if the person was being lazy. Thats a quick saxo then. Cant wait tbh. Did you have a lsd on it?

ATB in gti box he had (well along with 7 other boxes)

30th June 2009, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

ATB in gti box he had (well along with 7 other boxes)

Lol. Gearbox Pain.

Will bear that in mind

A mate gave me the number of the bloke selling the engine, was off the Bay.

30th June 2009, 23:19

Yeah used to kill gearbox.

dont think they liked how hard i drove it!!lol

30th June 2009, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupra-Craig

Yeah used to kill gearbox.

dont think they liked how hard i drove it!!lol

I heard your throttle foot at llandow

Was on and off like a hookers kecks

30th June 2009, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sax-oli

Lol. Gearbox Pain.

Will bear that in mind

A mate gave me the number of the bloke selling the engine, was off the Bay.

Bargain then, and ebay is surprising its mostly shit now.

30th June 2009, 23:26

Check out the honda CBR 600 FF engine trumpets on that... now there's an idea

30th June 2009, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

I heard your throttle foot at llandow

Was on and off like a hookers kecks

Gotta be mate as it sometimes used to bog down at low revs

30th June 2009, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupra-Craig

Gotta be mate as it sometimes used to bog down at low revs

peaky engine + ma gear cluster = fail.

mine only really has issues where theres a flat spot.

30th June 2009, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

Check out the honda CBR 600 FF engine trumpets on that... now there's an idea

fuck it... no ones actually going to know what I'm on about...

basically it's a inline four like the tu5j4... but it's unique feature on the trumpets is that two are one length, the others are different length... the trumpet height is such that on the firing order it goes, longer, shorter, longer, shorter...

best of both worlds.

30th June 2009, 23:57

ive seen that mr sayer

30th June 2009, 23:59

I couldnt find pics lady sayer.

but have seen a few different set ups with the long/short set ups

1st July 2009, 00:05

I'll grab a pic tomorrow as I'm faffing on with the spring stuff from Kev aka Kam Racing so will be with the Formula Student lot

1st July 2009, 21:34

Righto ordered the trumpets today

Went for 90mm, as think this is a happy medium from the sounds of it. Suppose the 60's would have been fine but ive ordered them now so thats it.

Got the engine on the stand tonight and had a look at a few of the bearing shells. They didnt seem too bad, no bad scores in them. Will take the head off tomorrow night hopefully and can have a look at the bores, then decide if i am gonna re-build the bottom end.

15th July 2009, 20:11

Right Trumpets still havent arrived yet so the thought of what sayer said had been playing round in my head, toying with the idea What would the benefits be of two longer trumpets 90mm and two shorter trumpets say 60mm over all 90mm trumpets? Would this make it more complicated when it comes to mapping?

15th July 2009, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by sax-oli

Right Trumpets still havent arrived yet so the thought of what sayer said had been playing round in my head, toying with the idea What would the benefits be of two longer trumpets 90mm and two shorter trumpets say 60mm over all 90mm trumpets? Would this make it more complicated when it comes to mapping?

really dont bother..

stick with one length

15th July 2009, 20:30

Ok pal, Just wondered what the benefit was and if any one had compared between the two, or at this level would it be too minimal to notice?