modded saxo vtr vs std vts

1st July 2009, 00:51

just interested if anyone knows how well a modded vtr with 117bhp against a standars vts with 120bhp. both weighing the same
what do you think the competition would be as ones an 8v and one being 16v?
would the vtr have better acceleration??
cheers

1st July 2009, 00:56

It would be fairly even. But pointless spending all the money on an 8v.

1st July 2009, 00:59

Tbh would still expect the vts to be quicker as it has 16 valves

1st July 2009, 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by liam08

It would be fairly even. But pointless spending all the money on an 8v.

cheeper on insurence
and fuel shouldntg be as bad as a vts

1st July 2009, 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirtisb

cheeper on insurence
and fuel shouldntg be as bad as a vts

won't be cheaper to insure if you declare the mods.

fuel will be worse after all those mods.

i wouldn't bother tuning the vtr, dead money hence why barely anyone does it.

and to answer your question, the vts will still be quicker because of better gearing with the same power.

1st July 2009, 02:46

Straight line, would be pretty even against a std VTS, box would be better on the S but VTR would rev more freely, S would eventually pull away

Any corners involved, VTS still has the better powerband and higher rev limiter, so the R would get nailed

1st July 2009, 05:07

just get an 's' engine.

like for like the s will alway be better.
youl have to spend twice the amount on a 'r' engine to get to same spec.
and even then youl start running out around the 160 mark were youl only have to do half them mods to get that from an 's' engine.

R engine will be less effeciant,will still be down on power over the 's' the only thing that would benifit the 'r' and help it would be making it lighter.

1st July 2009, 07:50

vts all day long. shorter box and higher rpm makes all the difference

1st July 2009, 08:39

I expect after 60mph the VTS would edge forward, and how do they weigh the same? The VTR is slightly lighter

1st July 2009, 09:03

VTR got more torque its obviously going to win.

1st July 2009, 10:55

VTS will still be quicker and agreed with around corners too. Owned both - my VTR did 7.8 0-60 and 15.7 1/4 mile at FCS couple of years ago and thought what is the point in getting a vts. My old VTR would not stand a chance against my VTS imo. I watched a video of my VTR speedo the other day and above 80 the VTS will really start to pull away from a modded VTR.

1st July 2009, 11:17

It really bugs me when people go on about 'dont bother tuning the 8v engine, its a waste of money, dead money' blah blah fucking blah. End of the day, people may choose to mod the VTR engine because they dont want to be a sheep and follow the crowd and put a fucking S engine in!

IMO, logically speaking here -

A cammed VTR, with a VTS/XSi/S1/S2 gearbox will keep up with a standard VTS all day long. You also have to consider the VTR would be remaped to be able to produce the figure mentioned (117bhp)...you could have the rev limit raised slightly in the VTR from 6250 (or what ever it is) to 6500-6700 say (I dont think the internals of the engine would be greatly affected...but to be on the safe side, if you are tuning an 8v, you might as well upgrade the internals.

As for MPG - expect it to go down a fair bit...maybe even lower than a standard S...but its to be expected when tuning a car to maike it go faster - burning more fuel.

If you are tuning the 8v engine, you also have to consider the chassis set up on the car as well...if you have a decent chassis, I would expect the VTR to be faster round bends, and straightline speed faster as well...

Just my 2p anyway

1st July 2009, 11:56

Firstly I agree with Raz, if you want to tune an 8v then tune it, if the only saxos we tuned were vts' then this would be Vtsperience??
But yeah it all depends on whats been done, a well tuned R will easy keep up with s' but there will always be ups and downs on each side.

1st July 2009, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raz

It really bugs me when people go on about 'dont bother tuning the 8v engine, its a waste of money, dead money' blah blah fucking blah. End of the day, people may choose to mod the VTR engine because they dont want to be a sheep and follow the crowd and put a fucking S engine in!

IMO, logically speaking here -

A cammed VTR, with a VTS/XSi/S1/S2 gearbox will keep up with a standard VTS all day long. You also have to consider the VTR would be remaped to be able to produce the figure mentioned (117bhp)...you could have the rev limit raised slightly in the VTR from 6250 (or what ever it is) to 6500-6700 say (I dont think the internals of the engine would be greatly affected...but to be on the safe side, if you are tuning an 8v, you might as well upgrade the internals.

As for MPG - expect it to go down a fair bit...maybe even lower than a standard S...but its to be expected when tuning a car to maike it go faster - burning more fuel.

If you are tuning the 8v engine, you also have to consider the chassis set up on the car as well...if you have a decent chassis, I would expect the VTR to be faster round bends, and straightline speed faster as well...

Just my 2p anyway

what a load of shit. upgrade internals and raised limiters to avoid being a sheep and following the crowd? have you ever though the majority of peopel use the vts engine because its easier and cheaper? my vts conversion cost less than a cam and map alone on a vtr engine!

1st July 2009, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

what a load of shit. upgrade internals and raised limiters to avoid being a sheep and following the crowd? have you ever though the majority of peopel use the vts engine because its easier and cheaper? my vts conversion cost less than a cam and map alone on a vtr engine!

We are talking about a modded VTR vs a Standard VTS...a modified VTR logically speaking will be better than a VTS...slightly...

Who mentioned anything about cost? Every person who considers tuning the 8v gets told '16v it, it be better in the long run'...define what long run is...is it the period of time you will own the car? People tend to move on from cars every 4 years on average...

The tuning potential of the 16v is far greater than that of 8v, its logic. Dont start going off topic by including cost.

P.S - how is it 'easier'?

1st July 2009, 12:52

its easier to start with a vts or vts engine due to the amount of work and things involved in getting a vtr to vts power and pace.

1st July 2009, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

its easier to start with a vts or vts engine due to the amount of work and things involved in getting a vtr to vts power and pace.

Its not what the fucking kids asking is it! He is asking about a modded VTR vs a Standard VTS...

Yes its easier to get better gains from a VTS (I've said this twice now), but for people not wanting to be a sheep and wack an S lump in their Saxo, modding a VTR and being different might be more appealing to them.

I believe a modded VTR will keep up with a Standard VTS all day everyday

1st July 2009, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirtisb

just interested if anyone knows how well a modded vtr with 117bhp against a standars vts with 120bhp. both weighing the same
what do you think the competition would be as ones an 8v and one being 16v?
would the vtr have better acceleration??
cheers

from what i have seen in the past, VTS still always pulls away when the VTS gets into 4th Gear.

Pretty much even through 1st 2nd then the end of 3rd the VTS has more revs.

8v power is boring imo after driving a VTS...

VTS feels like you have to drive it more. Cant really explain it but sure people who drive their VTS hard and have owned VTR's can agree.

The question was 117bhp no mention of it changing gear boxes etc lol
But even with a shorter box i would still think a VTS would pull away in the end, but have not witnessed this in person.

1st July 2009, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_VTS

from what i have seen in the past, VTS still always pulls away when the VTS gets into 4th Gear.

Pretty much even through 1st 2nd then the end of 3rd the VTS has more revs.

8v power is boring imo after driving a VTS...

VTS feels like you have to drive it more. Cant really explain it but sure people who drive their VTS hard and have owned VTR's can agree.

The question was 117bhp no mention of it changing gear boxes etc lol
But even with a shorter box i would still think a VTS would pull away in the end, but have not witnessed this in person.

Very true, but I class a modded VTR as something that has had a Cam, usual breather shit, chassis sorted and transmission...but thats just me

1st July 2009, 13:29

A Cammed R with breathing mods should outdoo an S imo.

Obviously if you do the same mods to the S it would dick all over it.

1st July 2009, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raz

Very true, but I class a modded VTR as something that has had a Cam, usual breather shit, chassis sorted and transmission...but thats just me

didnt specifically mean that at you btw just meant in general, would still expect the standard S to pull away top end.

All cammed VTR's running the 120ish mark or just under against standard VTS i have seen, have stayed more or less along side them with the VTS slowly pulling away, then 4th Gear the VTS pulls a good few car lengths and keeps going.

Thats all what i have seen in person, not what i would expect...

But again thats not taken into account the drivers, but who cant really drive properly in a straight line lol.

With regards to people i have spoken to who have cammed their VTR most always say the regret just not getting a vts in the first place... lol

1st July 2009, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raz

It really bugs me when people go on about 'dont bother tuning the 8v engine, its a waste of money, dead money' blah blah fucking blah. End of the day, people may choose to mod the VTR engine because they dont want to be a sheep and follow the crowd and put a fucking S engine in!

IMO, logically speaking here -

A cammed VTR, with a VTS/XSi/S1/S2 gearbox will keep up with a standard VTS all day long. You also have to consider the VTR would be remaped to be able to produce the figure mentioned (117bhp)...you could have the rev limit raised slightly in the VTR from 6250 (or what ever it is) to 6500-6700 say (I dont think the internals of the engine would be greatly affected...but to be on the safe side, if you are tuning an 8v, you might as well upgrade the internals.

As for MPG - expect it to go down a fair bit...maybe even lower than a standard S...but its to be expected when tuning a car to maike it go faster - burning more fuel.

If you are tuning the 8v engine, you also have to consider the chassis set up on the car as well...if you have a decent chassis, I would expect the VTR to be faster round bends, and straightline speed faster as well...

Just my 2p anyway

No ones saying you cant. But why spend all that money 'just to be different'. ENd of the day if you wanna do that thats cool, but the kiddy that spent the same amount on the better option will have a better car.

1st July 2009, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_VTS

from what i have seen in the past, VTS still always pulls away when the VTS gets into 4th Gear.

Pretty much even through 1st 2nd then the end of 3rd the VTS has more revs.

8v power is boring imo after driving a VTS...

VTS feels like you have to drive it more. Cant really explain it but sure people who drive their VTS hard and have owned VTR's can agree.

The question was 117bhp no mention of it changing gear boxes etc lol
But even with a shorter box i would still think a VTS would pull away in the end, but have not witnessed this in person.

Very true, was trying to explain that to a mate the other day. It constantly feels like it needs to be driven hard. Not saying that means you have to drive at 60 past schools but it just feels more ready to go. The 8vs have more character in a way though, again dont know how to describe it lol.

People need to learn it aint all about peak power too

1st July 2009, 14:52

regardless of which one would be quicker, how many 'tuned' vtr's do you come across compared to tuned vts's? not many because its a waste of money.

its like going and buying a non-turbo starlet and tuning it. 'to be different'

would you go out and buy an ep civic sport and tune it? or would you just go and get the type r?

its not different, its just retarded.

if going fast in a particular car is your goal, common sense shows that you would at least start with the fastest model of that particular car.

the fastest model of the saxo being the vts.

also, how often do you come across a 100% standard vts? tuning a vtr to vts level won't help you too much because most vts's have been messed aroud with anyway.

i'm not trying to argue with vtr owners, and its not 'vtsperience' because this isn't a tuning orientated forum. you can have a nice looking vtr, but if you want to start going faster its economical to just change the engine.

1st July 2009, 15:37

i had a cammed vtr before my vts, with the usual breathers and exhaust my mate had a dark blue vts pretty standard except exhaust, in a straight line the vtr didnt get dicked, but everytime i was changing gear the vts would edge a little more forwards as the limiter is higher, and as said,once in 4th gear the vts started to get away a fair bit. now i have an s, i can say it is definantly quicker, but people should do wat they want to what ever car they have, no matter how many valves.

1st July 2009, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by X895INVER

Firstly I agree with Raz, if you want to tune an 8v then tune it, if the only saxos we tuned were vts' then this would be Vtsperience??
But yeah it all depends on whats been done, a well tuned R will easy keep up with s' but there will always be ups and downs on each side.

Nice to see someone with a view from both sides ... i think both cars are great... both fun both moddable.

2nd July 2009, 00:03

I tune my 8 valve, its not a waste of money, and i plan on keeping it untill i can afford something faster. I'm only 17 so i'm happy with my vtr and it goes pretty well, not bothered about getting a vts. Definately not buying another citroen though! As someone else said its saxperience not vtssperience!

3rd July 2009, 14:34

as for getting the top model, some people might not be able to afford that at that time, but modding is done over time when funds are there, so modding the vtr works out easier, and lets face it there are some very quick vtrs out there, yes the vts is fast but the vtr is no imbarresment.

3rd July 2009, 15:30

see here;

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=241441