xsi or s2 rallye conversion on mk1 vtr

13th August 2009, 17:07

hi im struggling to choose between the two i want the best one of the two for top speed as well as acceleration and to try to gain more bhp they both seem to get good reviews what does every one suggest thanks in advance

13th August 2009, 17:09

Why does it have to be between them two engines?

Does it have to be an 8valve?

13th August 2009, 17:12

Am I correct in thinking that they are both the same but the only difference is one was in a S1 and the other is in a S2?

13th August 2009, 17:12

XSI 1.6 and 106 S2 rallye are much of a muchness when it come to tunning. Both are very good and both have the Black top solid lifter 8V MPI 1.6 engine.

13th August 2009, 17:14

Anyone know any actual differences the gbox is the same and power output i thought?!

13th August 2009, 17:32

im not entirely sure what way to go hense the reason im asking for your advice! if any one has any better advice or thinks could do with something else and no it doesnt have to be an 8v was just bein simple

lol as i am lazy

13th August 2009, 19:19

im not positive but i think the gearbox are the same and suppost 2 get great gaind from them when fitted to a vtr

13th August 2009, 19:22

depdns which xsi it is mate

if its 1.6 xsi then there is actually no difference they are identical

if its 1,4 xsi then it is different mate, only thing different engine wise is the cam which has 0.3mm less lift than the s1 rallye, s2 rallye and 1,6 xsi as they all use the same cam

erm really youd want the s1 is your going 8v it runs higher compression bigger inlet mani etc etc

erm but it depends on which ecu your are choosing to run mate

cause if you want to use either xsi or rallye ecu then you got a huge amount of work ahead of you mate lol, cause the loom is completly diff, a vtr loom has the fusebox loom part of engine loom, where as the xsi and rallye fusebox is part of interior loom, which is where i went wrong lol i was going to use a quicky loom and rallye ecu as i had an adaptor to run the ecu with that loom, but that loom from quicky had no wires coming off to run to fuse box and is the same with all other 106 looms iirc so to use that engine loom you will need to swap entire interior loom

so would only be able to use vtr loom abyway, so all you would be gaining is a better cam and head in essence, so imo just find an xsi or rallye head with standard cam and do a swap, cause these heads use a mild cam they are 270deg with 10.6mm of lift and 10.3mm of lift on 1.4 xsi, now that cam spec is better than an aftermarket mild cam like ph1 as far as im aware correct me if im wrong, so using that stadard cam you wont need to remap vtr ecu and will still get good gains mate, also them heads have better springs so rev better along with non roller rockers

hope this helps

13th August 2009, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggee1988

im not positive but i think the gearbox are the same and suppost 2 get great gaind from them when fitted to a vtr

yes the gearbox on 1.6xsi and s2 rallye are the same and you will see awsome gains with this on a vtr

or a 1,4 xsi box will be even better i put one on my vtr and the difference is unreal
best money i had spent up untill i bought bodies lol

13th August 2009, 21:57

yeah as far as am aware the 1.6 xsi is just the 90bhp tu an the 1.4 is the 100bhp tu so the 1.4 is the head to have !!!!! respect to vtr chris lol !!!!

13th August 2009, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey1

i want the best one of the two for top speed as well as acceleration

A contradiction in terms here. As mentioned the xsi box will improve acceleration, but will reduce top end speed (and motorway style fuel economy) massively.
The best box for top speed is already on the car.

14th August 2009, 00:14

thanks for all your help guys i am now in search or a 1.4 xsi gbox would i have ph1 cams at would it be worth while changing the head and cams etc to the xsi aswell?

14th August 2009, 00:17

bump. . . ..

14th August 2009, 00:18

rep to vtr chris cant thank you enough matey cheers

14th August 2009, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macnme

yeah as far as am aware the 1.6 xsi is just the 90bhp tu an the 1.4 is the 100bhp tu so the 1.4 is the head to have !!!!! respect to vtr chris lol !!!!

no the 1.6 xsi is actually same as the s2 rallye power wise which is 105bhp i think iirc

then the 1.4 xsi is 100bhp as is the s1 rallye which is 1.3

but i dont have the xsi head i have a s1 rallye head as i was goin got run s1 top end and ecu etc but couldnt get loom to fit, and the inlet wouldnt idle so im selling that and now have bike bodies, and it has ph2 cam (same as ph3)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey1

thanks for all your help guys i am now in search or a 1.4 xsi gbox would i have ph1 cams at would it be worth while changing the head and cams etc to the xsi aswell?

right, i will warn you though, the 1.4 box is very good on acceleration but as col said above you will sacrifice top speed and fuel econamy, on a private road my aunti and uncle own i topped out at 110 or 115 i think but you get there very fast, thats at bout 6100 in 5th so nearly redline, erm also fuel econamy will be drastically affect, i have to do 50mph the whole way to work and on motorways to get decent fuel econamy cause you do lower speed at higher revs so will drink more, common sense really lol

as for cam dont use the ph1, i had a look earlier at it and you get more duration and lift using a xsi or ralllye standard cam mate, butttt to use one of them cams you have to use a xsi or rallye head, as them cams are different to cams that are for a vtr head

like i said before for less than the price of the ph1 cam tyou can buy the head with cam inc and everything else and get it skimmed and cleaned and maybe even buy a s1 inlet mani too and still have a couple of pennies spare if you shop properly

15th August 2009, 12:34

how big is the difference between the 1.4 and 1.6 xsi for acceleration? i think i am going to go for the 1.4 xsi head, gbox and cams would a ralle inlet fit in with the xsi set up? and i think i will then upgrade to the ph2 cams with a remap how do you think that would go? vtr chris you are the don

16th August 2009, 09:52

do you mean difference between gearbox or engine or the two cars against eachother? cause with there gearboxs there is a noticable difference but with either box its a huge jump going from the vtr gbox to one of them

but as for engine they are same apart from the cam, which tbh the 0.3mm difference in lift on the cams isnt really a noticable difference
but yer that inlet will fit mate cause the xsi head is the same as rallye head and would suit it will, but tbh mate if your changing the head id advise putting a cam like ph2 in at the same time, or dont fit one if you get me, cause if you want to fit another cam at a laterr date it means you have to remove the head alll over again and its alot of hassle, and will cost you even more, cause it would mean yourt have to have the face cleaned/skimmed very lightly and another new headgasket and another set of headbolts,

so you may aswell just fit the ph2 at the same time as swapping heads, plus you will need to buy a vernier pully it is a must, leeumh i think his username is has one on here for sale
plus i have a rallye inlet manifold you can buy off me aswell if you want it as your fairly local you can come and pick it up and see how my car is cause thats pretty much the set up i have that you want mate minus the rallye inlet but pm me if you want it or want a price etc plus a mate has xsi head aswellhe wants about 70 or 80 qwuid for that as its been rebuilt about 4k ago

but yer with that set up, you could see about 130bhp id say, i was hoping for that when i was going with that set up, but now i have bike bodies so plans have changed

also if your getting a remap, theres not many places that can map standard ecu, ive tried people all around the midlands, so the only really place to go and know you will get great gains is chipwizards in rochdale/manchester, he charges 400plus vat, or i think someone said if you pay cash he nocks the vat off but still its al ot mate
id seriously advise looking at the predator ecu its an extra 100quid over a remap and you will get sooo much more from it, it would probs run beter and maybe see slight more gains from it due to it running better, its 500quid for the predator ecu and that includes fitting and mapping