Are enclosed induction kits pointless

1. Saxo_Vtr_MK2_98bhp Newbie Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 7

   #1 12th September 2009, 21:26

   Alright guys. I've just bought a BMC CDA enclosed air filter along with some expensive heat-resistant piping. I've just been reading on a few websites and one or two people have said you gain high rpm power but loose low rpm power from enclosed induction kits. Is this true? If the power increase is cancelled out by the low end decrease then whats the point in it? Might as well just leave it standard surely.
   
   Also, I know you wont notice any performance increase on the lower spec saxo's, but I have a VTR MK2 (98bhp), so does this mean I am likely to see a small gain from this expensive kit and piping? I'm just unsure whether to put this bad boy on, or just sell it n get my money back.
   
   Any help would be much appreciated ta
2. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #2 12th September 2009, 21:28

   all swings and roundabouts.
   
   Most rolling road events people with BMCs seem to have been unhappy mind
3. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

   #3 12th September 2009, 21:39

   IMO the whole " Induction kit / air filter " area is getting very confusing and vague.
   
   I cant think of a induction kit, that is widely used that gets good proven results on every application.
4. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #4 12th September 2009, 21:41

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123 IMO the whole " Induction kit / air filter " area is getting very confusing and vague. I cant think of a induction kit, that is widely used that gets good proven results on every application.

   Engines are different, there is no one for all.
   
   Green enclosed's allways seem to perform well on cars on the rollers mind.
5. Saxo_Vtr_MK2_98bhp Newbie Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 7

   #5 12th September 2009, 21:43

   Yeah its just a bit dis-heartening to have spent all this money, then to hear its practically pointless. Guess I shoulda done my research first lol
6. Ben Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2007 Chesterfield Posts: 5469 Ecoboost

   #6 12th September 2009, 21:43

   I've heard good things about K&N Gen2's.
7. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

   #7 12th September 2009, 21:45

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Ben I've heard good things about K&N Gen2's.

   Same. Arnt half expensive mind.
   
   As Ryan said, there is no induction kit for all.
   
   Trial and error i suppose? Would just be expensive though.
8. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #8 12th September 2009, 21:46

   its a filter.... people thinking that it will give massive bhp will allways be let down.
   
   You pays your money and makes your choices...
   
   But dont ever expect it to make a vtr engine into a fire breathing drag racer
9. Saxo_Vtr_MK2_98bhp Newbie Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 7

   #9 12th September 2009, 21:48

   Oh yeah I'm aware the performance increases are minimal, but surely its more effective on a vtr than a 1.1?
10. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

    #10 12th September 2009, 21:49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Saxo_Vtr_MK2_98bhp Oh yeah I'm aware the performance increases are minimal, but surely its more effective on a vtr than a 1.1?

    Of course mate. Most mods will make more power on a bigger cc engine. But it does also depend on how restrictive the standard air filter system is!
11. Saxo_Vtr_MK2_98bhp Newbie Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 7

    #11 12th September 2009, 21:52

    lol cheers saxovtr123. Bout time I had some good news on this lol. Probs could have put my £200 to better use though from what you're all saying. Might not bother putting it on, just sell it n use the money for a re-map
12. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #12 12th September 2009, 21:52

    standard airbox with a better cold air set up and panel filter is what you want
13. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

    #13 12th September 2009, 21:54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Saxo_Vtr_MK2_98bhp lol cheers saxovtr123. Bout time I had some good news on this lol. Probs could have put my £200 to better use though from what you're all saying. Might not bother putting it on, just sell it n use the money for a re-map

    A remap for £200 probably wont be a good one.
    
    Could of gotton a nice 4-2-1 manifold. But since you have it, might aswell put it on. Just do more research next time mate
14. Asherz86 Infrequent Poster Joined: Jul 2009 countesthorpe,Leicester Posts: 216

    #14 12th September 2009, 23:05

    to get a better performance from a air filter you would have to have the car mapped to suit.. as the car will be taking in more air and still using the same ammount of petrol thus creating not the right air/fuel mixture.
    
    best bet is to get ya breathing mods,exhaust,manifold etc etc then have ot all mapped to suit were you can have the garage get the optimum performance.
    
    Above is what i do with bikes on a daily basis all engines work in the same way so..
15. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

    #15 12th September 2009, 23:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123 Of course mate. Most mods will make more power on a bigger cc engine. But it does also depend on how restrictive the standard air filter system is!

    correct
    
    the 8v engine's air filter is far more restictive than the 16v.. hence bigger gains are to be had from the 8v in relation to origional power
    
    still, wont be near 10bhp
16. VTRelite Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Gloucester Posts: 3000 Citroen Saxo VTR Renault 5

    #16 13th September 2009, 00:49

    pound for pound keeping the standard induction with a upgraded panel filter in is much more cost effective
17. starletcal Infrequent Poster Joined: Aug 2009 rugeley staffordshire Posts: 207 rare ass cool td winterhack for the min

    #17 13th September 2009, 01:23

    who the fuck cares about bhp figures!! depends on how it pulls on the road! my mates have vtrs and the quickest is actually a BONE stock vtr with just a k&n air filter!
18. Hardeep L-plater Joined: Sep 2009 Coventry Posts: 34 Corsa C (Irmscher)

    #18 13th September 2009, 01:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by starletcal who the fuck cares about bhp figures!! depends on how it pulls on the road! my mates have vtrs and the quickest is actually a BONE stock vtr with just a k&n air filter!

    
    Maybe its his driving style, which makes you think its the quickest?
    
    Facts and figures = The real answer.
19. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

    #19 13th September 2009, 02:06

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by starletcal who the fuck cares about bhp figures!! depends on how it pulls on the road! my mates have vtrs and the quickest is actually a BONE stock vtr with just a k&n air filter!

    idiot.
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hardeep Maybe its his driving style, which makes you think its the quickest? Facts and figures = The real answer.

    Correct mate. Also peoples driving skill varies, and loads of other things come into consideration. As you said, FIGURES and FACTS are the only real way to say who has the fastest car imo
20. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

    #20 13th September 2009, 08:32

    starletcal - engine condition plays a major part
    
    your "stock" vtr may be in a lot better condition than the other non standard vtr's
    
    im guessing none have been RR'd so you dont actually have any figures to back up your argument lol

    1 user thanked this post: DJDannyB
21. user_7256 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 7657

    #21 13th September 2009, 09:59

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan all swings and roundabouts. Most rolling road events people with BMCs seem to have been unhappy mind

    I was very surprised just how bad they seem to be, my friend has a cam'd vts and on the rollers the bmc lost him power. IIRC it was more at the higher revs.
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sparco_Tom standard airbox with a better cold air set up and panel filter is what you want

    
    
    i have done this, its good imo.
22. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #22 13th September 2009, 10:51

    the critical part is the cold air feed to any filter. Get that right and they are all virtually as good as each other. Then it just boils down to the quality of the parts and how they are put together
23. gouldy87 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 3932

    #23 13th September 2009, 13:21

    another thread that turns into bickering and then gets locked.
    
    any "open" style cone filter will lose you power FACT. this is due to massive amounts of heat soak and very sparse air particles.
    
    the best type of filter by far is a sealed one with a decent cold air feed.
    
    the best examples are-
    (in no particular order)
    
    1.BMC sealed filters with ram air induction (moreetes with the lamp removed or similar)
    2.correct me if ive got the name wrong dynatwist sealed filters with good cold feed
    2. de restricted standard airbox, panel filter and very good cold air feed
    
    the results of people with open filters and as i like to call them semi open filters e.g k an n gen2s. rave about the power gains when in actual fact most ran there cars on dynos with the bonnet up which renders the results worthless as thats not how the car will work/ run when you drive it.
    
    in all honest opinion i wouldn't worry too much about the air filter as its only an air filter. all types of filters make minimal gains or losses.
    
    imo if i was to start my car again from scratch i would go down the panel filter and air box route
    
    i hope this info is of some use
24. J222JRA Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2007 Posts: 16839 Saxo VTS, Westfield

    #24 13th September 2009, 14:34

    ive been doing soo much research into induction kits the last few months,
    
    
    From what ive found out on a vts the k&n gen 2 and the standard set up (de-restricted) get the best gains.
    
    James
25. Carlvtr88 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2009 Birmingham Posts: 5801 1.1 106 XN Time, MK2 VTR 01. Ford Focus ST3 CP320

    #25 14th September 2009, 12:03

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sparco_Tom standard airbox with a better cold air set up and panel filter is what you want

    thats how i went about it .. car feels like it breathes a lot better.. no mega difference though, i dont suppose the induction kits do huge amount either for the price you pay... green cotton filter, standard air box, de restrict air feed pipe, remove resonator box, seal the remaining hole and bobs your mothers brother .. a few people have done this for same results but a hell of a lot cheaper..