max front spring rating on standard bars also ARB question

1. webby Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456

   #1 13th September 2009, 16:24

   what is the max spring rating you can use on the standard 19mm bars?
   
   would 180 lb ones be ok?
   
   am i right in thinking a vts has a 19mm front arb and a 22mm rear?
   
   if i were to use a 19mm arb, would this cause any problems or is the reason people change because they are running bigger bars and stiffer shocks on the rear so they take up the slack casusd by the smaller arb.
   
   sorry if its a bit of a ramble.
2. user_15989 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 Posts: 4857

   #2 13th September 2009, 16:29

   Looking at it simply you can run whatever spring rate you like with whatever ARB. The ARB is a separate entity that only works in role.
   
   EDIT: to answer your second question people fit larger rear ARBs because they intend the car for track use and wish to have more turn in literally slightly slide the rear end round the bend. These cars will be driven so there balanced on the throttle so your always at a point that if you give to little throttle you will spin or to much throttle and you will slide wide.
3. webby Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456

   #3 13th September 2009, 18:35

   but if i run harder springs will it cause any handling traits either more understeer or oversteer?
4. unreal106 Established Member Joined: Apr 2008 Dudley Posts: 1634 106 GTI

   #4 13th September 2009, 18:51

   what dampers are you using ?
5. user_15989 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 Posts: 4857

   #5 13th September 2009, 19:06

   All being equal it would tend to give you more understeer especially under acceleration.
6. webby Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456

   #6 13th September 2009, 19:13

   right ok and to counter thats were bigger bars come in.
   dampers arn't a problem there up there with the best of them
7. unreal106 Established Member Joined: Apr 2008 Dudley Posts: 1634 106 GTI

   #7 13th September 2009, 22:39

   Ok well I am not saying you can't drive so please don't take this the wrong way but I have been in a car. With 300lb springs up front and it handle extremly well there was no need fir bigger bars, a bigger torsion bar will only give a noticble increase in performance right on the limit of the car so if you drive the car hard enough then around 300 plus poundage on the front rear bars are worth considering.
8. webby Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456

   #8 14th September 2009, 15:17

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by unreal106 Ok well I am not saying you can't drive so please don't take this the wrong way but I have been in a car. With 300lb springs up front and it handle extremly well there was no need fir bigger bars, a bigger torsion bar will only give a noticble increase in performance right on the limit of the car so if you drive the car hard enough then around 300 plus poundage on the front rear bars are worth considering.

   i wouldn't have taken in a bad way at all. thanks for the info. so standard bars are more than ample for 180lb springs.
9. Aron Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Nuneaton Posts: 3554 EP3 Civic

   #9 14th September 2009, 15:22

   180 is fine. for general road there is no real problem at all. people also run over 200lb springs with standard bars and no front arb. all about how you like you car and what it is suitable from
10. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #10 14th September 2009, 15:26

    200lb springs are not hard enough imo to remove the front arb.
    Thought you had to be more towards 280lb ish?
    
    with 180lb springs i would personally get 21mm torsion bars.
11. Aron Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Nuneaton Posts: 3554 EP3 Civic

    #11 14th September 2009, 15:51

    nah i know a few people running around 200-220 without an arb.
    
    Im sure dannygti was using 220 at the ring with no arb.
12. webby Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456

    #12 14th September 2009, 16:04

    cheers lads.
    
    do any of the lesser model run smaller front arb?
13. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #13 14th September 2009, 16:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by webby cheers lads. do any of the lesser model run smaller front arb?

    i dont know off the top of my head.
    
    Alexr and others have posted in the past have a search.
    
    Sure you can use the older ones off 1.1's but have to drill a hole through them for the drop link as they normally bolt into the wishbone.
14. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #14 14th September 2009, 16:09

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by webby cheers lads. do any of the lesser model run smaller front arb?

    Early VTR's run a 16mm like mine
15. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #15 14th September 2009, 16:57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Aron nah i know a few people running around 200-220 without an arb. Im sure dannygti was using 220 at the ring with no arb.

    no mate i was on 300lbs at the ring... mine is the car unreal 106 is reffering to.
16. webby Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456

    #16 14th September 2009, 17:31

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dannygti no mate i was on 300lbs at the ring... mine is the car unreal 106 is reffering to.

    cool. are you running a front arb though?
17. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #17 14th September 2009, 17:35

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by webby cool. are you running a front arb though?

    no front arb mate.
18. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #18 14th September 2009, 17:51

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by unreal106 Ok well I am not saying you can't drive so please don't take this the wrong way but I have been in a car. With 300lb springs up front and it handle extremly well there was no need fir bigger bars, a bigger torsion bar will only give a noticble increase in performance right on the limit of the car so if you drive the car hard enough then around 300 plus poundage on the front rear bars are worth considering.

    It will be very easy to drive as it will understeer - more than the standard car though. When you compare two similar cars, one with a bigger torsion bar the difference is significant.
    Personally I wouldnt go beyond 180lb springs without considering upgrading the torsion bars. You dont see people with springs all round only upgrading the front setup and neglecting the rear. Its only because people dont want to spend the money to do it properly as its very expensive..
19. unreal106 Established Member Joined: Apr 2008 Dudley Posts: 1634 106 GTI

    #19 14th September 2009, 20:58

    very good point but driver skill must taken into account
20. Aron Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Nuneaton Posts: 3554 EP3 Civic

    #20 14th September 2009, 22:22

    o sorry yea danny had 300. i know lea runs around the 220 without an arb
21. dannyboy2005 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0

    #21 14th September 2009, 22:43

    I have a Pc game called GTR 2, a racing game.
    
    You can tweak the enging and handling.
    
    I found on this game, stiffing the front ARB gives very little lean, but a hell of a lot of understeer.
    
    Stiff springs, normal ARB gives the car slightly less understeer.
    
    Soft arb, hard springs gives a good ride, but very hard to turn in.
    
    I kow its a game, but its got to be the same princible as in real life?
    
    Adjusting the front camber makes stability very good, although on sharp bends it seems to understeer too.
    
    This was all on a BMW hatch car.