Is This Slow?

15th September 2009, 18:38

With my current spec do you think the car should run faster than this? it beats my old saxo but there isnt much in it.. i find traction a problem tho.. hopfully with some 15's and decent tyres that should help that out.. but it just feels down on power..

also the exhaust has 2 silcerners which i think i may rip out tbh.. or just go to a supersprint.. and its got the gayest induction kit ever.. waiting for kam to get raceland with green back in stock!

so what are your thorts?

Think i may get the exhaust and induction sorted then get a pred if they are completed or go for a piggybank and a remmap..

what should i go for next? decent mods at this level? the only thing i can think off is bodies and dont want to do it on the cheap which means i cant aford it..

Also mainly want the car to be fast acceration!.

Current Spec:

1.6 8v Silvertop Engine
Piper 270 Camshaft
Port & Polished Stage 3 Head
Simota Induction Kit (With out scoop!)
Competition Head Gasket
Competition Springs & valves
Vernier Pulley
Hi-Flow Heads Lightened & balanced flywheel
Oil Breather Filter
4-1 Stainless Steel GMC Manifold
Peco Stainless Steel Dual-Exit Exhaust System
1.3 Rallye Gearbox
GMC Lambda Blanking Sleeve
186cc Hi-Flow Injectors
Custom De-cat

15th September 2009, 18:50

i'd say quick for a vtr..roughly 7 secs 0-60. I'd lose the dual exit system, just my opinion

15th September 2009, 19:04

You had it RR'd? Looks alrite

15th September 2009, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo_asa

i'd say quick for a vtr..roughly 7 secs 0-60. I'd lose the dual exit system, just my opinion

Counting the timer on the video, it was around 9 secs or just under.

15th September 2009, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichM

Counting the timer on the video, it was around 9 secs or just under.

so not much improvement over the standard then...sounds like alot of wasted expense if thats the case

probly needs mapping

15th September 2009, 19:28

most of that is gearbox, the mods dont seem to be performing greatly, a proper remap and removal of the exhaust. also the open filter will be causing a loss. get the standard airbox back on with a nice air feed

15th September 2009, 19:30

Will be going for bmc or raceland with green filter.. hasnt been on the rolling road yet as ive been trying to get it running right 1st..

15th September 2009, 19:32

It's cammed but not remapped? That induction will probably suffer heat soak also.

15th September 2009, 20:00

i have no proof off it being remapped, only proof off camm, i will be having it remapped once ive got the induction and zorst sorted me thinks!

so could the main problem off this losing power be the induction?

15th September 2009, 20:09

LeeumH could pprobably say as he had a cammed r recently and knows what its like before and after mapping

15th September 2009, 20:30

Hmm, it's hard to compare to mine as I had the VTR 'box on.

Looking at the spec of the cam, it's the mildest Piper do for the silvertop - 258 deg duration, good for a 10bhp increase (with breathing mods no doubt). For such a mild cam, a re-map/ standalone ECU would be money down the drain imo. If you're going down that route, whip the head off and swap the Piper 270 with a Newman PH3.

To improve the setup you already have... I get the impression a Simota without the scoop will be just a filter nigh on touching the exhaust manifold? Junk that for a standard airbox + panel filter (could always remove the resonator and use a length of silicone like VTR_Craig has done) or a K&N Gen2 (I noticed an improvement with this). Exhaust wise, I'd maybe look into a Piper system in the future but I doubt you'll notice any substantial gains. I'd keep what you have for now. I've always found my cars seem much happier with a middle box, but could just be placebo effect.

Can't understand why you're running bigger injectors... shouldn't need them unless you're running a crazy profile cam! Is this the same car that had trouble getting through an emissions test? I would swap the injectors back to standard items tbh. Any idea what the cam timing is set to? If not, I'd get it to a reputable tuner with RR facilites (somewhere like Motoscope in Northallerton) for an intial power run, then let them adjust it from there.

15th September 2009, 22:30

the injectors arnt that much bigger from standard injectors i think, if i remember 8v injectors are 160 or 170cc, and 16v injectors are 220ish? i cant remember exactly, so the injectors hes using arnt that much bigger, so he should be ok with them, but still std 8v injectors would be more than capable of only running a milder cam

15th September 2009, 22:35

hmm, weird my vtr standard pulls up faster and up the mph more in each gear :/

15th September 2009, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by C18VTR

hmm, weird my vtr standard pulls up faster and up the mph more in each gear :/

He has an S1 Rallye gearbox fitted - it's geared for acceleration rather than economy (VTR box).

15th September 2009, 23:09

lol is that all the cc injectors you run? i need 550's...

15th September 2009, 23:12

so whats the normaly 0-60 for a VTR
i can manage to get mine to 60 in 8

15th September 2009, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeumH

Hmm, it's hard to compare to mine as I had the VTR 'box on.

Looking at the spec of the cam, it's the mildest Piper do for the silvertop - 258 deg duration, good for a 10bhp increase (with breathing mods no doubt). For such a mild cam, a re-map/ standalone ECU would be money down the drain imo. If you're going down that route, whip the head off and swap the Piper 270 with a Newman PH3.

To improve the setup you already have... I get the impression a Simota without the scoop will be just a filter nigh on touching the exhaust manifold? Junk that for a standard airbox + panel filter (could always remove the resonator and use a length of silicone like VTR_Craig has done) or a K&N Gen2 (I noticed an improvement with this). Exhaust wise, I'd maybe look into a Piper system in the future but I doubt you'll notice any substantial gains. I'd keep what you have for now. I've always found my cars seem much happier with a middle box, but could just be placebo effect.

Can't understand why you're running bigger injectors... shouldn't need them unless you're running a crazy profile cam! Is this the same car that had trouble getting through an emissions test? I would swap the injectors back to standard items tbh. Any idea what the cam timing is set to? If not, I'd get it to a reputable tuner with RR facilites (somewhere like Motoscope in Northallerton) for an intial power run, then let them adjust it from there.

the injectors are only about 6cc more i think, i only got them as they were brought for a costume who never came back to collect them and got them very cheap.. they have helped it out a bit tbh..

also picked up a nice raceland with green filter today which has made a nice difference!

yeah im looking for some one who can do a power run and sort the time out.. the idea is pretty bad tbh.. almost sounds like its running on 3 but its not..

really want to run a pred ecu on it tbh.. so trying to hold out and get the smaller things sorted 1st, will try get them who do the pred to sort my timing ect out!

16th September 2009, 00:05

I would get the timing adjusted on the rollers tbh mate - the difference a degree advanced/ retarded makes isn't always clear cut on the road, but power run figures in a constant environment may beg to differ. Ideally, you want the timing to be tweaked whilst the car is being mapped.

Idle should be smooth really... my old 118bhp VTR with a Kent PT40 (266 duration compared to the 258 of the Piper 270) idled like standard. For it to run lumpy, I rekon the timing would have to be way out. Can you see on the vernier pulley where the timing is at present?

16th September 2009, 00:09

no mate it has a cover on it at the moment, will take it off tomorrow, bit off a dumb question me thinks but if i get it remapped surly they will adjust the timing there and then?

Also feels like it has a couple off flat spots.. very werid i reckon a remap is a must now tbh!

16th September 2009, 00:16

Most likely yeah, but I'd prefer to have them both done on the rollers personally. Will be easier to see where peak power is being made with graphs, which you can then alter accordingly.

I'm not doubting both could be done 'on the road', but I know I'd want the absolute best figure I could possibly get with the setup I have and a printout to prove it (albeit for future owners etc.).

16th September 2009, 00:22

very true mate! so your saying get it on rollers for a remap and have the timing done aswel there and then!,

rather than going for a ecu and road mapping

think im going do that and see what i can get it running, cheers for this mate.

just need to find a decent company who can do it near me now

16th September 2009, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by starletcal

lol is that all the cc injectors you run? i need 550's...

And the award for most useless post goes to...

16th September 2009, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrlogan

very true mate! so your saying get it on rollers for a remap and have the timing done aswel there and then!,

rather than going for a ecu and road mapping

think im going do that and see what i can get it running, cheers for this mate.

just need to find a decent company who can do it near me now

wel i would say definatly get it on rollers to have cam timing looked at

but as for mapping, getting it mapped live on the road like andy (luthor1) does with the predator can be just as benificial as mapping on a set of rollers, some people will prefer it, and say you may even get a better map on the road, some may not agree though

but as ive heard a lot of people say its not always what bhp you are running its how the car feels, and mapping on the road is like that i think
someone could have a vtr engine with exact same mods as you and have 125bhp and you could have say 115bhp according to rollers and both done on the same rollers but on the road yours could pull more

its all swings and round abouts iirc

16th September 2009, 15:55

i just want a decent power out off my vtr as it should be.. yeah think im gunna have a remap done then go for a pred ecu once they done and see what he thinks then

16th September 2009, 17:37

well alot of mappers who map on dyno will take the car out on the raod after to do the final tweeks!!!

as only in really road condision can you get a perfect map as on dyno you can get really road condision!!!

dyno are good for checking the cam timing to make sure it correct, as it really hard to do that on the road as dyno give up all the data, such as graghs!!

but on the live road map will be done very last thing once all the cam timing sorted and they got a good map on the dyno a mapper will take it out and see how it feels on the road and tweek it!!

andy

16th September 2009, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrlogan

i just want a decent power out off my vtr as it should be.. yeah think im gunna have a remap done then go for a pred ecu once they done and see what he thinks then

hmmm would probably be wasting money there mate

if your going for the pred just wait and get the pred

since your only running a mild cam you will be fine without a remap, and it isnt cheap for a remap aswell, and tbh you wouldnt gain a huge amount going for pred after youve just had a remap, id say do one or the other tbh

and just get your car on rollers to get cam timing looked at make sure its right etc etc and that will be fine until you get the pred

16th September 2009, 22:52

as said get the timing checked ignition/fuel etc get a better induction setup (standard airbox is actually pretty good). Might just be me but I think it would go better running a VTR gearbox as the rallye box is very short your having to do an extra gear change to hit 60mph and the VTR has a much broader power band than the 106 rallye - ie the VTR makes use of the broader power range through a longer ratio gearbox and gets the better top speed in each gear and the standard 'R' box is well suited to the power curve of the VTR engine

16th September 2009, 23:02

defo keeping the box lol no chance off me changing that.. the torque off the box is insane.. this my 3rd vtr and have to say i love it even when it not running right lol.

im gunna have timing and rr'd and see what happens

Cheers people,